[Interview Begins]

SPRAGUE: Today is August 4th, 2023. This is an interview with Alex Kaleta, who served in the United States Army from January 1970 to January 1990. 

KALETA: That's correct. 

SPRAGUE: This interview is being conducted by Luke Sprague at the Wauwatosa Public Library for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. No one else is present in the room. Okay, Alex, go ahead and tell me, where did you grow up? 

KALETA: I grew up in Hammond, Indiana. I'm a Hoosier by by book, by birth. I was went to school in Hammond. In fact, I went to grade school at, say, Adelbert and Whiting and and really in Hammond, Indiana, and St Mary's in Hammond, Indiana. Hammond Tech High School. And then went to college at Purdue University. And the campus was in Hammond. So I was there all my education. And in Hammond, Indiana, for the most part. 

SPRAGUE: Wow. And what did your family do there? 

KALETA: My father was from South Chicago and my mother was from. From Hammond. Hammond and Whiting are very close. And in fact, it's the one street. If you're on one side of the street, you're Whiting, the other street side streets here, and Hammond and the post office box for my mother Live, which was actually Hammond was considered whiting. So she actually from Hammond Whiting, Indiana. And. So what else did I forget? What the. 

SPRAGUE: No, you got it. Yep. So did you have any other members of your family who had served? 

KALETA: Oh, yes. In fact, I was highly influenced by my father and my uncles who served during World War Two. My dad was a I'm not sure whether he was drafted in 1941, in January 1941, or enlisted, but he went in the Army in 19th January of 1941, and he was, I think, scheduled for my understand that only served one year because that was the commitment at that time. And of course, Pearl Harbor changed that. And we jokingly said that he liked his service so much they kept him for another five years. So it was just good. But he he was born in 1918. At the end of fact, that right before the armistice was signed, October 30th, 1918, and then went in the Army in 1941, January 1941. He wanted to go to Calvary. That's what his story was. But the Army decided, no, no, you're not going into Calvary. You're going into the Army, Air Force. And so we ended that basic training and training in at Hammond Field in California. And then he eventually left, served in that European theater and ended up as a first sergeant. I had uncles that were in the Philippines, and the army are two uncles that were fought in the European theater there, infantryman. Another uncle that was in the Navy. He was on. He was a fact. He was the one, the one uncle that served both during World War Two and then during Korea. He was called up, but he didn't go to Korea. Another uncle that served in the Navy. So I was influenced by my relatives, my uncles who served and my and for Braulio, my dad's sister was a yeoman in the United States Navy. So she she served in the Navy, too. So a lot of military background. 

SPRAGUE: And for the record, what was your father's name? 

KALETA: Alexander J. Cohen. I'm a theoretically a junior. Okay. 

SPRAGUE: So what when did you start thinking about joining or did you not join? Were you drafted? 

KALETA: Well, combination. I always imagined it. Always. I think I was fascinated with the service since probably eight, nine, ten years old. My cousin, my younger cousin, it was end up being taller than I was. He had an army captain's uniform and I because he outgrew it and I received that I was a little smaller in stature. And so I was fascinated with the army and wanted to always serve. I want to either go in the Army or the Air Force because my dad was in the Army Air Force at the time. So I so I wanted to serve. So I in fact, I even applied for the military academy after I graduated from high school. And I was selected second alternate from State of Indiana for the Academy. But because the first the primary candidate or the first alternate got with the academy, I didn't go to the academy. I did try to. Since I was at Purdue, I was planning to go to the main campus where the ROTC unit was that. So I volunteered to go to summer camp and I spent six weeks at Fort Benning, Georgia, in 67. As a ROTC to take get the equivalent of the first two years of ROTC. It was basically modified basic, basic training. And but because of other conditions, things happened. I didn't continue. I didn't actually take any ROTC classes at Purdue. I had because of conflict with classes. I couldn't fit it in. So I didn't. The spring of our graduating year, which was the April of 1969, because I graduate in 69. My entire it seemed like my entire senior class at Purdue went for our pre induction, such as physicals because at that time if you're going to school you had to deferment from the draft though the draft as a draft was going on during the Vietnam War. So I had a two deferment until I graduated. Then when I graduated in August, I graduated in June. In August, I received a letter from the president of the United States asking me to join the Army. So at that time, I said, Well, let me see what I could work out. So I went to see the Air Force recruiter and the Army recruiter, the Air Force recruiter. I took a I because I wore glasses and I couldn't fly. I really wanted to fly, but I couldn't, couldn't fly. So I took the test for being a navigator and I passed it. The problem was the Air Force at time had a six month waiting list to get into the Air Force. But my draft notice was for September. So I talked to the Army recruiter and he says, Such a deal I have for you. And he says, I could go delayed entry and I can enlist for an overseas option, become an officer. And I said, Well, that sounds good. Now, I'm not sure whether exactly correct or not, but so I raised my right hand initially in September of 1969, but I was delayed entry so I didn't have to go on active duty until January of 1970 because I just read from college and I just didn't want to go in or I knew I was going to go in, but I didn't want to go in right away. I wanted to I had a job. I just got a job with at Atlas Cement Corporation as a quality can go down as a quality control. And I think that was my title. But I worked in a lab, so it was great. I made it. Finally, I had money and I was had a job. I had a car. So I was until that year. So from September till January, I, I was just a normal 23 year old college graduate. 

SPRAGUE: So yeah, so it sounds like to me from the beginning, you you were aiming at becoming an officer. 

KALETA: Yes. 

SPRAGUE: Can you tell me why that was? 

KALETA: I think, I guess influenced by my my father with my early members of he had them up above our entrance way like in their basement was a. All his patches and his stripes and and I was influenced by perhaps TV seeing movies on World War two. They were my cousins and I would always watch those or war movies all those time, you know, So I was influenced. And when for some reason we had this big oak tree in our yard and my vision was I was going to parachute from that. And because I saw a movie on 101st that I got, I mean, but never happened before. I mean, when you're nine, ten years old, you know, we had a lot of imaginations, but now so yeah, I've that influenced me quite a bit. And because my grandparents came from Central Europe, they're from Poland, both sets of grandparents. I was raised with a strong appreciation for our country. My grandparents came here with nothing and my dad survived the suppression he had. There were seven in my dad's family and seven in my mom's family. And they they survived the Depression. They worked hard. They were loyal Americans. They they they served their country. And so I felt it was my duty to do so as well. You know, I didn't plan initially stayed in for 20 years. But it is the worked out. I did. 

SPRAGUE: And when you decided to, it was an enlistment to become an officer. Did were you thinking did you know at that time that you were going to be initially a combat engineer on that side, or was that just. Well. 

KALETA: No, I with the Army, sometimes you you put your wish list of what you want to be. And I think I put down ordnance and maybe artillery. But when you went I went for basic training. And one basic I had to go for another officer board evaluation. So that's why I was wondering whether the first one counted or not, because I had go for a second one while I wasn't in basic training. Then when we got our orders after we graduated from Basic, I was assigned to be a combat engineer. 80 And then shortly after that I had received a class date for engineer OCS in July of 1970. So I was on track to be coming back, and I was at my enlisted ambush as a combat engineer, but I was tracked to be a an engineering officer and go to Fort Belvoir until fateful day in May. We were on the range because you never have idle time. And when you're in the army, you always go find find something to do. We are putting a canvas covering over a framed structure. And I was on the roof and the roof collapsed. And so I fell, hit my head and landed on my left arm. What was interesting about that, you know, they they called the ambulance and I was taking the Fort Linwood Hospital and it was in the afternoon. And the initial physician in the E.R. said looked at my wrist and looked at me, said, well, I'll tell you what, it's it's early yet. 2:00. We'll get some X-rays and we'll send you down to orthopedics. If not, go back to your company and go on sick call the next morning. So I went to get X-ray and then when I saw the doctor, orthopedic surgeon, and then he started asking me questions and I answered the questions and he said, will either operate tonight or tomorrow morning. Wait a minute. The other guy was sending me home and he's. No, no, no. You you got you broke your wrist. You are your we need I take care of your your arm. So they operated the next morning and they put two pins. 

SPRAGUE: And that would have been in May of 19. 

KALETA: May or May of 1977. 1970 was interesting. When I was in a hospital after the surgery was I was in a hospital bed and on TV was the Kent State riot. As I was watching TV, they're bringing in wounded from Vietnam. So we had I mean, I had a roommate who just was he broke his leg when he was serving in Vietnam. And I was in and. 

SPRAGUE: He was the. 

KALETA: First guest. 

SPRAGUE: Fort. 

KALETA: Leonard, at Fort Leonard Wood, because there was a repository for four casualties that came back from now. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So let's back up a little bit and let's go with a basic training at Fort Leonard Wood. And I believe in the intake form. You put Delta Company. Yeah. Fourth Battalion, Second basic training Brigade. 

KALETA: Yes. Close. Yes. Delta for two is more had basic training. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. So what was that like coming into that shocking. 

KALETA: It was our book when we got was inducted in Chicago and then we had orders there. And with the Army, they several us were inducted, of course, that day and somewhere in the Fort Dix, some with the Campbell. I got sent a letter. But just the way the Army does its decision making and the reception stage was relatively quiet. We got our equipment, but and we they were rushing us to get through reception station. And so normally you'd go to your unit the day before your basic training started on Monday. So we my group missed the initial entry ceremony that Monday, but we arrived that afternoon and we received by the drill instructors and that. Was a shock. That was a shock. They were. We lo crawl across the ground and we. It was. They were not. It was a y had a real awakening. And I remember when I was reception station again, all kind of people coming in at the Army because the draft was going on. And I remember one guy was pretty look tough looking, had bought a jacket. He was evidently felt he was tough. And I remember when I was low crawling across the company grounds, he would had to dye 2 or 3 d eyes on him and he was bawling like a baby. So I said, this is going to be difficult. This is get this is not going to be fun. But it was it turned out that and then our platoon sergeant in Sergeant Hall believe and I remember his name they were they would later I have every be after about the 6 or 7 weeks they still said it's the whole reason they went in for you so vigorously, so to speak. What do they want to make you realize you're no longer civilian. You're an hour, you're in the army, and you better do what you're needed because your life depends on it. So they were just really. Came at us and and I mean, we weren't any physical danger. It was just that we. Of course, we thought we were we to. I'll never survive. But we did. We did. Huh? 

SPRAGUE: Oh. What was it like being exposed to people from all over the country? Oh. 

KALETA: It was a great experience. I've grew up in primarily in a ethnic pot. I was a Polish background primarily. And which of my relatives are all Polish? That probably got a white Anglo-Saxon perhaps. And I had some contact with African-Americans, you know, from high school. And so it was I wasn't a it was a new experience for me. But I realized in basic training, you had a wide range of people there. You had individuals who didn't graduate from high school. You had high school graduates. You had college graduates. You had folks who had master's or graduate degrees. And we all were treated the same. And that's one of the things I know that they're talking about the values of the all volunteer service. But one of the advantages to being in the draft was you got a mixture and you all had to work together. You didn't care what your credentials. I didn't care. You had if you had a doctoral degree or you didn't graduate, could we depend on each other to get through this thing? And we had to work together. And I thought that was just an eye opener. And just I. I appreciate that for most of, of my military career. With that, you have to work together. People are people. You have good, you have bad, but you got to work together. And and because of your whether you're Asian or you're black or white or whatever Hispanic, you got to work together and you're all this for all the same group. 

SPRAGUE: Were you training with females or was it just male? 

KALETA: Oh, this is male. This is this is prior to now. The women were in the service. They were in the back when the Army Corps was in existence. That but that was completely separate. I don't. There may have I'm sure there were women on base in new administrative areas or different thing. And of course the nurses that were at the hospital were female. So there were women on base, but our training was strictly male. 

SPRAGUE: Any experiences that stick out in your head from basic member? 

KALETA: Oh gosh, I. I didn't like KP, that's for sure. We we had KP And that was and the problem with KP, you had to keep busy all the time. You didn't. You couldn't set in and you had different jobs. If you were doing. KP You were going to be outside, man. Or you could be DRO dining room or really or the front seat thing or the back thing with pots and pans where I had pots and pans when I was at ROTC, ROTC camp, summer camp. And I realized that is not the job to have all the jobs. That's the worst. So you quit, but you it's how soon you get there and sign up for. And an that outside man was the best job so. I it was exciting. I remember because I went through basic training in June and in the January, February and March we graduate. I think, and at the last was eight weeks long. And it was. It was cold. And I remember going on the bivouac and it was we marched and. We, we lived. We slept in outside and two manhunts. My bunkmate or my tent mate was another college grad That was a college grad that time too. We just happened to. But we both worked because you were constantly coughing because of your close proximity, the cold weather, the training in regards to whether you can continue to train. And so in our ammo cultures, if we didn't have ammo there, we had our cough medicine or cough drops and things of that nature to keep us as he was healthy. So but it was the infiltration course always was a memorable experience where they used very crude crawling over barbed wire in different fields and they had 50 caliber machine guns shooting over your heads and you had to keep your head down. That was course the highlight code quotation marks of my basic training, getting through that gap. First time under fire. 

SPRAGUE: So you then stayed on at Fort Leonard Wood to attend? I t. 

KALETA: I did. And yes, I was assigned then to Charlie Company, a third Battalion, first Brigade. First Brigade was the Air Combat Engineer. Brigade at Leonard Wood at that time, because I later served that little were later on they had five brigades, five training brigades. The first was dedicated to combat engineers. The second and third brigades were basic training. The fourth and fifth were for various other militias, heavy equipment operators for the engineers and cooks, clerks. I was a wide right and they did a lot of it was a very large training establishment, little one in the early 70s. 

SPRAGUE: So for eight it would have been Charlie Company, third Battalion, first Brigade, First Brigade. 

KALETA: Yeah. And wife were when I was with in, in Charlie Company when I broke my wrist and then I got recycled. In fact I ended up with 230 day convalescent leave because after they operated on my wrist, I was just dead weight there. So they sent me home. So I went home with the cast and was for 30 days that I came back. They they removed the pin, the pins. And I was in a hospital for another couple of days and they sent me home again because I couldn't go back. I couldn't use my wrist, so I couldn't go back to training. I wouldn't do anything. So they they sent me home on a second. In fact, one of my buddies says, we said goodbye to a couple of months, go and you're back home more frequently now than you were before. You know what? Go with goes. But I went back. I my my second convalescent leave to the hospital. I was clear to go do I still had a profile so I couldn't do pushups. Yeah. Because they still had to be careful of the risk. But I was reassigned out of the army. They couldn't put me back in Charlie Company because the cycles have changed and so they had to get me in a training unit that combat it training unit that was approximate where I where I was at when I left. And that was about the fifth or sixth week at that time. So I was assigned a delta to one as a as a replacement or finished finished my 80 to. 

SPRAGUE: Anything in particular from. 

KALETA: Delta to one. Yeah. 

SPRAGUE: That you enjoyed that particular training? 

KALETA: Well, again, at that time one of I getting back up a little bit when I was on the hospital, I had orders to report to one of the the personnel building. I'm building 100 because this is in Genesis in this June, July of 1970. And at that time they had too many volunteers for OCS. So they were looking at giving people to give up their commitment to the OCS. So I had an offer to two and they would send me someplace else or they would change my M.O. or guarantee me go some place else. But I, I wanted to be an officer. So I didn't take that. And they but they all. Or was made because I was going overseas. There were at that point, because of all the things that were going on, there were four of us. There were 3 or 4. There were ox identified as ox candidates, but we had orders yet to go to see us. And so when we graduated the day we were going to graduate from it and it was a ceremony, you know, in the Army, there's always a big ceremony, a parade, etc.. The first sergeant says, You guys are going to become officers. You don't. You'll be enough parades. You guys are on KP. So we celebrated our graduating from the KP duty and that was that. 404 soldiers are going to be scheduled to go see us. And we had one day I was going to be discharged. So we were the five of us on KP. It was a company missile. And so we were on KP. And so the day we graduated from MIT. 

SPRAGUE: Any other instances of resentment from the enlisted side of the house, knowing that you were going to become an overseas candidate or. 

KALETA: No, not not really. I mean, there was a number of us that were interns that they had, and we had no special privileges. I mean, we we did we were, you know, singled out except by the first sergeant. One of the things that was interesting because I didn't have we didn't have a class date. I think two of two of my buddies got class dates relatively quickly, and then they left within a couple of weeks. But gosh, Williams and I was his first name. We didn't have class dates, so we were holdovers in the company. And of course, you can never do so we worked in the orderly room. I was they asked who could type, and I did take a typing class in high school. So I was the pseudo assistant company clerk and I was the then they needed NCOs to help with c, q, c, Q, charge your quarters and to do various duties and go on arrangers. So they made me and my buddy acting E-5. So we were acting E-5 and. For about I did I could probably spy too much before we got our bench to get our class dates. And it was interesting because I got a chance to pull CQ duty. I worked in as an assistant training NCO. So I would take the training schedules off. We went on the Rangers, went with the, you know, here we were in a we just ran every minute. And in September and here in October, we were on the range assisting other trainees in firing the M79 grenade launcher. The M 72 law. So it was a hand grenade range. That was that was that was fun and was interesting, you know. 

SPRAGUE: So what grade or rank were you at that time while you were black? 

KALETA: I was actually a p. I got paid as a PFC, but I but I was had the rank of acting E-5, so I wore E5 stripes. And I remember the first start after I got my OCS class date, the first sarge says, you can wear a going home, but don't wear OCS. You're going to get enough grief as it is. So I made sure I took the stripes off before I reported that. The OCS. Yeah. 

SPRAGUE: So tell me about going to see us. 

KALETA: Well. Actually, I graduated from the Ite in September. I finally got a class date, but it wasn't for engineering OSIs. It was for Fort Sill OSIs and I was going to become a cabin cocker. I was going to be. And they're going to send me artillery officer candidate school. And OCS was different than it is now because we still have oceans and oceans. Officer Candidate school is an opportunity for enlisted personnel to get trained to become commissioned officers. The army commissioned officers basically in three different ways. I fought for if you count direct commissions for certain skills, but either West Point ROTC process and OCS, when I was when I went through was six months long right now, which I think is 14 weeks, 13 weeks, something like that, because they change how they do things. And the reason I was was that that long was besides learning all that leadership and the other things we had to do, we took the same classes that the West Pointers and the. See students took to become trained artillery men. So we went through the same classes that the West Pointers went through in our our classes with or with them when we went on or we had a three day war and a four day war, or whether we were maybe we were there. At that time, there was no rank you. Even though we were actually enlisted soldiers and we were with second lieutenants, we'd been calling by by rank, as you were, You're all gun buddies or whatever. You needed to do that for the for the operation, for them, for the training. In fact, one of the jokes that one of the instructors told us, they could always tell the type of students who were in your class when they took said, take a ten minute break. The West Pointers would pull out The Wall Street Journal's. The ROTC students would pull out the comic books. The okay students went to sleep because Ox was I mean, we had, you know, the West, the ROTC, the West Pointers, they finished the classes and go home, go to the club, have supper or whatever. We had to go back and train yet. So we were had responsibilities. So it was the one way I could describe this is intense. It is because they again, this is after this, of course, Vietnam had some experience with with two guys here pushing out officers in the in the early in 60s seven 6667 time frame and they weren't I say really looking at the quality of the officers. They were pushing out because they needed lieutenants. But they learned from that and they were more selective. In fact, what we're told that we had 50 people scheduled a ten hour Oaks class, class 3-71 at Fort Sill, actually 30. Some actually showed up, actually attended. And I think 19 of us graduated because it was just they were relentless to try to weed out people. I thought I'd never make it. I just think it was it was tough. It was tough. 

SPRAGUE: Sounds like to me it was a combination of OCS and what we'd call OVC officers base. 

KALETA: And that's correct. 

SPRAGUE: At the same. 

KALETA: Time. At the same time it was. And so we and I remember we were always dreading was we had weak weekly sweater positions because we had a ox battalion. So we had to two batteries, Alpha and Bravo. And so you were if you were a lower if your lower class. But you you may get temporarily assigned as a as a leadership position. I was a liaison officer. They always had different jobs for us to do and we different responsibilities. But usually the leadership positions were either the ox was divided into lower class, middle class and upper class. So you had eight, eight and an eight. So you. So you had your if you were a middle class, you normally were assigned like a chief firing battery or first sergeant. The position or supply sergeant, you know, they always had something for you to do. If you were a upperclassman, you were usually an officer, platoon leader, a platoon leader, Battery AC, DC officer of officer candidate, battery commander. So you. Yes. Weapons. And besides your studies you had to worry about doing as others these other responsibilities. I remember I, I gosh I think I either failed or. Scored very low on a camel. We had a camel exam. I'll give you a camel training, too. But that was because I had it. I was a I was going here. John would my what position? So I did have a chance to study, so I got out. That's what, nine, eight, nine, eight, but I scored 9 or 0 or greater. The second had the second test because I didn't have to worry about the other things I was supposed to do. So it was a challenge in many cases too, because you're constantly short of sleep, because you had responsibilities. You don't always get chips. We used to there were some married candidates there and what the wives would do because you couldn't eat sometimes you didn't have a chance to eat, so they would smuggle in McDonald's. We should call it a grotto, and they would go out and get get order and they would buy us a Big Mac fries and a Coke and they would deliver it and some. We would sneak out after lights out to pick it up and bring it back. And we'd be eating in the latrine. The, the, the, the the hamburgers. Because we were hungry. Yeah, but. 

SPRAGUE: Sounds like they were using sleep deprivation and hunger to weed people out. 

KALETA: Yeah. Yeah, they were testing. You're making sure you had the. And I mean, David said I'm going to post you. I don't care that you are not qualified to be an officer. Yeah. And that's what they think. That's what, again, they wanted to make sure you were resilient. You could take it because if you were going to be an officer, you have to learn to take orders as well as give orders. So. 

SPRAGUE: What, what, what day where you commissioned. 

KALETA: What day was a. Yeah. May gosh, May 28th, 1971. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. 

KALETA: My mom and dad came down and my brother and sister, my ad from California flew in and it was it was great. My mom and dad put them pin my bars on me. And one of the unique things we had a dining in the day before we graduated and. My aunt, who's relatively a teetotaler after we went to the get you were dress blues and he had receiving gives you been through that where the formal reception these are the these the girls had the general's hand were rose I don't remember who were they. The reception line was and she says I need a drink. After going through that, it was just so formal. She's this was always a lead officers. Yeah, but it was it was a very memorable, to be honest. 

SPRAGUE: Where did you did you know where you were going once you were commissioned? 

KALETA: Oh, yeah. Well, we had to put in a drink sheet and they gave us a couple options. Our number one guy would become Aria British get his choice. I was a number one. I was in the middle of the pack, which is where it goes, you know. And they were asking us, they're giving us an option that when you got commissioned process we called all be to get above obligated to obligatory volunteer for two years. So you had a two year commitment. But they're offered you could go volun deaf and that means you get to release three years and you could get your choice of assignment. And. And a lot of our my married contemporaries, they took Germany. They went over because they knew they would be going to rather than going to Vietnam, because Vietnam was still going on. If you didn't go volunteer for war. And are you more than like he said, within six months you'd be in Vietnam. So but at that time I was single eyesight and I just went over to I'm and because I did that and I figure with with the possibility to go to Vietnam, I wanted to be stationed relatively close to home. And when the closest installations was Fort Leonard Wood where I could go. So I put in for Fort Leonard Wood, which is the garden spot. It wasn't it wasn't the most sought after location. But so I went to Fort Leonard Wood and I became a training officer. And at Fort Leonard Wood probation training unit. 

SPRAGUE: And what what unit was that? 

KALETA: I was assigned as the training officer for Charlie for two. And if you recall, I had I was in basic training in Delta for two. So I assigned to the same battalion, just different company. 

SPRAGUE: And what was that like coming back to the same battalion? 

KALETA: It was interesting. It was different because Delta Company, when I give information, we were in Quonset Hut and Charlie Company had Brig Billets and so the trainees were in brick billets. But I remember coming in and I came in, reported in and they were just taking in trainees that day. So I was there when they took trainees and I was replacing a lieutenant who was going to Vietnam, so he was there. We have a slight overlap there. We were both training officers, so it was interesting. And of course I had left basic training in gosh, in in the March of 1970 and then came back there in June of 1971. And the CAD, we all had changed except for the supply sergeant and this place. And they asked, Did you know Lieutenant Coletta? Oh, yeah. I saw he did pushups there, related pushups there. And you know now what they actually did or not. I don't. I don't know. But but that was is because I was there like I'm sure with all the trainees he I don't I don't think I was that outstanding of a trainee to to be remembered. 

SPRAGUE: What what does a training officer do in a basic training company. 

KALETA: We're responsible for overseeing the training. The guys do the training. I mean, they're the expert in actually conducting the training. We also would be responsible for giving the classroom instruction. I gave classes on military traditions and military history. I gave classes on field sanitation or some of the more general classes because usually the first two weeks of basic training, they get a lot of draw ceremonies. And I mentioned training often all fresh, be it every whenever the trains are training, either the company commander or a training officer has to be present and offer as brief bond. And then even though the senior drill instructor was responsible for maintaining the roster when a visiting and we had inspectors come by, it was the officer every spot you the the NCO did the work. But I was responsible if the count was was wrong. So I had to rely on my NCO to to make a good head count because then you learn accountability real quick, because if you had 180 man company, you might have ten on sick or two on special duty three and you know, and you had to keep track. And what was an interesting trick for inspecting either NCOs or officers when they came up from either battalion or brigade headquarters to check on training. You're constantly being checked on making sure training is being performed correctly. They we line up the when the troops should ground our gear, they would draw it in platoon formation and you could count how many people were there. So if you said I had 175 trainees and you had 170 helmets laying there, where are those extra five people? You know, you just you have to. Yes. And then so you really had to depend on SD item and you would check, make sure, well, what's the count? What are we at right now just to make sure that things weren't working or accountable because you don't want to lose anybody. Then we were on the range all the time. We have this. We were a safety officer for the range. One of the things that basically during a winter we would train regardless of the weather and that letter would you had real hot summers and you had very cold winters. I think the coldest I've ever been. Not even counting Korea and Germany was probably that letter would wear out on a night firing range. It was minus eight or something like that. I'm not sure that and it was cold. And as a training officer, while they were firing, I had to be there on line. My skills could switch good in a warm up tent, but as long as the officer in charge, I had to be on line. So it was, you know, our responsibilities. You take you know, you do. 

SPRAGUE: What was your relationship like with that senior drill instructor. 

KALETA: For the very good I think I had I was fortunate. I had some good NCOs I worked with. I mean, if I would never made a made major wasn't for my my my NCOs are not I have some trouble with some yes. But for the most part, the senior drill instructors, they were excellent. I mean, they I can't say that when I was a trainee. I'm not sure about that. But as a as a lieutenant, Drill Sergeant Carter Carpio was the senior drill instructor. And the guy in the basic training unit is the one that is he's out there with the troops, the first sergeant, not always. He's running the company from the orderly room and along those lines. But the senior drill instructor is the one who actually runs the Met, oversees the training. And of course, she had there's usually two at least two platoon, the two sergeants per platoon, and usually had at basic training, we had four platoons. The quality of the platoon sergeants varied. We did have problems with one, and he was eventually he went up for a court martial and he or he rod charge. Yeah, he, he, he had some issues. And that was an interesting experience too, because I had to testify at the court martial because he he claimed that the battery the company commander and the first sergeant were. Prejudiced and the company commander was white, but the first sergeant was black, so I couldn't see them. And but I but I was called to testify. But it was it was an interesting experience. I mean. Being in training officer I, I had expected to go be there only six months. But as six months passed and then a year came back over a year. One of my buddies or a couple of my fellow officer came in the same day I did. They got orders for Korea. I saw all mines coming, you know, and nothing happened. And so I ended up calling Branch and saying, You can send me someplace. This is now your year. This year you're too far along unless you go volume deaf. And I didn't want to say that. I spent my two years in the Army at Fort Leonard Wood, Fort Sill, and back at Fort Leonard Wood. I wanted to do more than that, you know, like the old line from Patton. And so I would volunteer and end up going to Korea. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. So. You had mentioned the Vietnam War. What was your sense of what was going on with the Vietnam War? Well, you were at Fort Leonard Wood as a training officer. 

KALETA: Well, we are training stiff shoulders, especially when I got there in 71, that we're going to be eventually going to Vietnam. And we also trained National Guard soldiers because we had because, you know, we had a wide range of people in basic training there, not only ethnic wise and religious life, because we had a Catholic Protestant choose, you know, a number, but we also had different components. You had the draftees, you had the folks that enlisted. You had National Guard soldiers, you had reservist. And one of the things that was unique was when you went to the mess hall, they had to be accounted for differently. So you might be a so you had to they would light up in four different lines. And they said, I need four edges and four inches would go in. I need three in draftees and three, 2 or 3 of us to go with a three year age if you're enlisted. They went in, I need to National Guard and they would go in because they try to keep the line going and they had to keep you decide in everything's accountable in the military. So that was one of the things. But it was. I forgot I got off on a tangent. I'm sorry. There. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So before. So you had to go violent death. Yeah. Yeah. What a for you get to Korea. Did you take any what looks like you were at Fort Leonard Wood until August of 1973. 

KALETA: Yes, all the time. But the Vietnam War and the the effect we're going through for Vietnam. And then in 73, January of 73, the Paris Peace Accords were signed. And. Then the army was starting to go towards a war there and transitioning to the all volunteer force, the draft had ended. And all of a sudden where we had been going back to back with training troops, we had a great big lull. And sometime in February, Army has a very big army Emergency Relief is a big. Fundraiser for the Army, both externally and internally. And because we had a lack of trainees, because you can never have any of your not doing anything. So I shouldn't say I. Some of my buddies got off, I got some slack time, but I got selected or picked volunteered to be the the post air officer for my last for a period tighter in the air campaign. So Friday from February March of of 73 till May of 73 I was the post. I was a terribly attached to brigade headquarters to be the post air officer. So I wasn't. So I had to coordinate the air campaign for the post. And then after that, they could restore. And then, of course, they had a replacement for me at the base and train car because they still were going to get some eventually get trainees. But they had a lot of slack type. And so I ended up because I was then I by then I had volunteered for a volunteer. And then I had the option of volunteering for, you know, they'll just send me to Korea. And I had the option to go with a missile for missile training. So I eventually did that. But so I was temporarily again, temporarily attached as an assistant s one at brigade headquarters for the last couple of months. I was at Leonard Wood until I had to report to Fort Sill for Sergeant Mitchell. Officer, of course, training. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. And did you attend any other schools in route? 

KALETA: Not from Leonard Wood directly. I went to Sergeant Mitchell Officer Course, which was at Fort Sill. And then we trained as a packet. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Explain that to me. I've never. I know what a packet is and shipping are back. 

KALETA: But we were the Sergeant Mitchell was a intermediate intermediate range missile system that the army had for ground from ground to ground targets. And we deployed Sergeant Mitchell battalions in both Germany and Korea. And of course, had Fort Sill for training. And the packet system was they would take they would rotate half the battalion every six months. So I packet trained. And so the officers were trained first on the system that we picked up a recently trained i.t. Company soldiers from a recent VH eight company. And then the NCOs. And so we had roughly ten officers, then ten NCOs and probably 30 to 40 enlisted personnel. And we would train on the missile system. And it was the eventual we had to do a live fire exercise. And we did that. We trained from September to the end of November. And we fired our missile at White Sands. We did convoy and we fired the missile at White Sands. 

SPRAGUE: White Sands, New Mexico. 

KALETA: New Mexico. 

SPRAGUE: Oklahoma. 

KALETA: From Oklahoma. That's a bit of. 

SPRAGUE: A road. 

KALETA: March. Yeah, it's a road march. And one of the interesting things was we stayed overnight and an Air Force base. And it was just holy Toledo. These are Air Force officers. I mean, they had we put they put us at it because we had ten officers. We all worked with a sergeant missile battalion. You have a battalion. So you have adjutant, you have S-3, you have. So we had the pseudo jobs there. The actual meat of the was the firing platoon commander and the firing platoon leader. One of my buddies was and one of my two of my buddies was selected as the fiery platoon leader and the assistant platoon leader. I had I was selected as the assistant s one, so I was back to S one duties because I had some experiences in S one. But we all went to White Sands and successfully fired our missile. And in our packet was going to be the battalion XO Major Schwarzkopf. The battalion F31 battery commander. And about six of us lieutenants stared at a couple of captains and majority I think was about four or 5 or 6 of us lieutenants. And we were going there, replaced half the battalion in Korea. And then six months later in in July, another packet came, replaced the battalion commander and another battery commander. So so you had a rotation of people who were trained on the system there. So even though we did get a few people that were assigned directly. But but the bulk of the battalion was interchanged, you know, the specially the firing platoon because we it was important that we had you could have learned it was an on the job OJT training on on the missile system. You had to be trained on it. And so the officers were trained, the NCOs were they were usually the air shows were at so ready and they were just due for rotation. So they came from the sergeant missile battalion or from when they were retrained as as NCOs and or they had. It served in a larger missile battalion before. But the soldiers, the E, F, e threes and below were all straight from the A-Team. And they're going to the Korea. 

SPRAGUE: At some point in their in 73. Did you go to airborne school? 

KALETA: Ah yes. I had when I went a volunteer, I asked to go airborne school because I wanted to go airborne. As I mentioned, that was my goals in the Army was to go jump out of airplanes. And you know the story about that, that the first day this airborne school, three weeks long, the first week they separate the men from the boys. The second week they separate the men from the falls. And the third week, the falls jump. So so we so I did that and I was I had to and I was lucky. I had my we had the battalion. XO was a real good guy and we had to fire our missile for because that might by rehearsals I had with one go airborne school I had to get I had to get airborne school before I reported to Korea because we had a, I think a January 6th, 74 that we had to start deploying. And so I had to squeeze airborne school in there before. So we fired air missiles in November. And I got permission to go to airborne school in December at Fort Benning. And so and he let me leave early from from White Sands. I the adjutant adjutant. I would drove back because we had to get things ready. Did the final touch up so I was able to leave the truck pack it before we actually separated for Christmas. Good day to leave till sometime in December, but I left in December, the first week in December to go the airborne school. So and. 

SPRAGUE: It probably was pretty temperate in Georgia and December are colder. 

KALETA: And Betty was pleasant, believe it or not. Is it It was rather a Georgia was it was was sort of pleasant for for weather wise. So we had good good weather for training except for job week. Job week. They were expecting storms. And so normally you job week you have it's Monday, Tuesday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And usually you finish Thursday. You have it may do a jump and a day. And that was it. Well, because of the weather, we were canceled on Monday because of weather and they expected another front to come in on later on that week. So we got our fire jumps in on Tuesday and Wednesday. 

SPRAGUE: Oh, wow. 

KALETA: So that was so we I think I forgot. I think it was Tuesday. We did three. I forgot we did two or 3 to 3 jumps one day and two jumps one day. And so it was Oh wow. It was a lot. It was a lot. So it's a lot of work. A lot of work. 

SPRAGUE: Takes a lot out of you, too. 

KALETA: Yeah, it it was. And you have to it airborne school was again they don't always treated the same. I was a stickler because I was as a first lieutenant then in a sticky it was really a like a squad. I was like a squad leader. But and so it was it was interesting. Being an officer, you always get a little more grief from the black hats, the airborne NCOs, but not as much as the Navy and Marines Officers. Got it. They got more. We had us and my platoon. I had a one stick and I had a friend who was a marine. He was another stick leader and a Navy Seal was a second. What he was going to jump score. You going to be a Navy Seal? And he we got all these guys that squawk like a scale, you know, like, oh, rock, rock, rock and stuff. It was interesting. It was. 

SPRAGUE: So help me understand. So then your entire packet then deployed to Korea. 

KALETA: Yes, we deployed over three days and I was for terrorist category. Well, with good, bad or indifferent, I was in the first element to go. It was strictly, I think ten of us the course, the the Excel and then 3 or 4 of us were lieutenants and then the warrant officer because we had with a missile unit, you definitely need a warrant officer to to help with the system to track down the system. And I turned out I had an emissary with a really good guy, Chief Hendricks. He was a former Army captain. And during the in 72, 73, remember the Vietnam War start, the Persian 73 started declining. So they were getting rid of the writ redact reduction in force. So we lost a lot of officers that were qualified officers. In fact, my company commander at that time was Dan Bresnahan, and he was out at Hamburger Hill and then came back to Vietnam as a helicopter pilot. Through Cobras. He was I mean, he was sharp, but he got caught in a riff. We had a number of officers that were and my the warrant officer I had when I was with the Sergeant Missile Battalion, he was also a former captain. And one day he said, Bless you, my son. You're no longer a captain, you know. But he because he was former enlisted, he he was able to transfer to become an NCO. I'm a warrant officer. And he was. But he he was invaluable, especially to a lieutenant to guide them into because he had the experience as a company commander, I tend to use a company commander one time, so he had a lot of wealth of experience. So he was good, good guidance to a neophyte platoon leader. 

SPRAGUE: And his name was Chief Hendrix. 

KALETA: Chief Hendrix. 

SPRAGUE: Okay, so help me out. Was the were the missiles already in Korea or did you come in theater with them when you deployed? 

KALETA: The missiles were there in Korea and was interesting. And this is 74 and until probably 73, 72, 73 time you still received the combat patch for Korea? Because I had friends and when I was in airborne school, it was coming back from Korea and he had a second ID badge on and he wore as the combat patch because they stole, but they stopped it. And in 72, 73, type and time frame. So it was still considered. And when you deployed to Korea, we had the missiles were that answer your question. We had we were a small site outside of Seoul and I'm not sure they're joking when I say, Oh, Korea is like big downtown. But back home, it's it's just like fun, you know? It's it's just like a big hole. It wasn't at least our base was because we first flew. First of all. Good. Got you. Was the anti-aircraft guns by the bridge emplacements. So he said that's not normally I find that in the streets of of Milwaukee or Chicago. And then when we got to our compound cyclone fence, sandbags and armed guards, but not quite like me being at home. So it was a little different. And why was there? We were still because we should ring in Korea. We are eligible to receive the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal. Because it was still it's still a tense at times. And of course, it continue to be tense even after we left. And you were you served in Korea. You know that. 

SPRAGUE: 95, 96 is not normal. 

KALETA: Not normal. It's it's it's I enjoyed our guys. I enjoyed the food. I enjoyed the food. I went there. But that's another story that I enjoyed that Yakima do. 

SPRAGUE: You. 

KALETA: Do your commander and then I so it was good but it was it was different. We were a battalion and we had an empty attachment because the US government classified high explosives and they were in bunkers. And so we're both a unit, but the missile launchers were there. We had two firing platoons assigned to the battalion, and our mission was to support our army. 

SPRAGUE: Payloads are just. HD Or did you have any other type of payload accommodation? 

KALETA: And part of it was classified. So I can. But yeah, we. So we did a lot of targeting. And what was interesting in Korea was we got hit with then the Middle East more than 73. We had the Middle East War. I was interesting when I was in ROTC summer camp at 67. The Six-Day War occurred when I was at it. Sergeant Mitchell Officer training in August September of of. I was at Fort Sill then get ready to go to Korea. The young Kapoor war began. So there was attention and of course gas prices went to grasp out the window. When this is back in 73, I think they were gas was probably $0.35 a gallon. And it was just but then when I came back, it was a lot more a year later. 

SPRAGUE: So these would have been sergeant missiles. And they was at Camp Colburn. 

KALETA: Camp, Culver, Camp, Colburn, Korea. And we're about 20 miles outside. I'm not sure if even exists anymore. Things have changed so much. 

SPRAGUE: What the and you don't have to answer this, but the tactical nuclear warheads camp. 

KALETA: Okay. U.S. government classified, high explosives. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. Gotcha. 

KALETA: Yeah, I do. I don't know what the. What? The current. Classification is. I don't. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Okay. No worries. So what does so what was your role while you were there at Camp Colburn? If you could help flesh that out a little better. 

KALETA: Yes. Well, you remember we were talking earlier? Yeah. With the. With the army or the army. You. You may be trained to do this. You know, I was trained to be a platoon leader. But when I got there, because you only had two firing platoon leaders and I wasn't one. The firing. But you. But I was assigned as a service platoon leader, the headquarters service battery for the battalion. And my job, I had a car. I had a combo platoon. That was. I was risk response. No, they didn't have a car. I had a we had one of my buddies was come up the two leader. So I didn't have the counselor, but I had a maintenance platoon. I had the headquarters section. And one of the interesting things that because we were in Korea, we were subject to alert and because we weren't sure if anything would happen. And my job as the service to leader was to man the reaction force. So when if when the siren went off, the we were assigned different places to defend the camp because we were going to defend the compound. And so my job was to gather my my platoon is a motor pool and then respond back to wherever the threats may be as a response force to reinforce the if they're breaching the. And I was like, guys here's like sand pebbles in respect you're you're defending your perimeter as a you know horizontal type type construction was with barbed wire and fences. But you had we had to defend it. And so you were spread out to where I'm sixteens and sixes to defend it. You know, of course, because we were a missile unit. We are supposed to get reinforcements within 30 minutes and then within two hours, more reinforcements. Because that was we were strategic. So we. We were important to them. We had to. But in the meantime, we didn't defend ourselves. And that was my job and one of my jobs as and I keep thinking about that whole lead a little. What what was I really qualified to be an infantry platoon leader? Because that's what you ended up being? Because I had to be able to, I think, to machine guns and squad, you know, to squads. And so it was just interesting. 

SPRAGUE: Life rounds at the time or not. 

KALETA: Yeah, we had live rounds because we were we were issued ammunition. Fortunately, nothing happened. But that was one of my jobs that at the missile battalion, we because we were back we had to and my officer as the FS to battalion as to details and saw officer in fact. And he had orders to rotate because he was not part of the packet. He was just one of the officers, extra officers assigned to the battalion. And so he was. Schedule leave where he had no replacement. So they had I'm not sure who took my place, but I, I got blessed to become the yes to the Italian battalion. To do so, I had to sign for the classified documents and for that. And be responsible for for classified material. So it was it was interesting. One of the things I did when I was a service platoon leader that was unique was we had a senior NCO die and he was married to a Korean national. And so and she was pregnant. And so I had to arrange to get her back to the States. And if it wasn't for when my NCOs was married to another Korean national, I went because I had to deal with it, go through the embassy, into the Korean Embassy, into the US consulate office to try and arrange for passage back. And that was that was interesting to say the least. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. I was going to say, looking at it from looks like about January 70th 4 to 75, you know, this would have been an unaccompanied tour. Yes. So when he married the Korean national in that time, in. 

KALETA: That timeframe. 

SPRAGUE: And then she's a dependent at that point. 

KALETA: It was. And because it was the unaccompanied tours, in fact, two of our officers, the Comm officer and the S two officer, they brought their wives over and they lived on the economy in Seoul. So they would go home to see their wives on weekends and that would depend on duty, etc.. But there and they they had a great time, but they had. Their wives shared an apartment in Seoul. And it was. I think the wives had a good time, too, in that respect. 

SPRAGUE: We had a Yeah, I'm familiar with that. Where you brought your wife over on the economy. Yeah. And yeah, and. 

KALETA: It was, I think and it was because it was on an unaccompanied tour. And, you know, they and they have to, you know, because if anything happened, the wives had to then, but they didn't have children at the time. So they were you know, they it was it was but every else was unaccompanied except for those already. Two I knew was the camera officer. And he has to that had the officer I replaced as a service platoon leader who had an issue. He he married a Korean national. He was Japanese and he married. That was interesting to dynamics, I'm sure. But he he married he got married while he was in Korea. And then they he got reassigned, I think back to Fort Sill and his wife went with him. But they already been married for a couple of months. And so was, I think, a little easier for for him to get back. But it was it's it's interesting, huh? Yeah. Interesting dynamics. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So what type of guidance system did the sergeant missile have? Uh. 

KALETA: It was inertial. We had gyroscopes inside it, and we had us make sure the gyros were working right. And it was a set procedures. Gosh, if you ask me now, the procedures, I don't. When we were training, the officers did everything. We actually built the missile. It was it came in three components. You had a fire, remember, we had the rocket motor section, We had the guidance section in a warhead and we had to build a missile on the launcher. And we did the different parts. And then we had to work the control panel to get it synchronized to you. 

SPRAGUE: Built the missile. 

KALETA: We built a missile which came in three parts. We moved convoy wise. We you had oh, so it was it. So we built the missile on the pad and the and but it was it was it was interesting and I think there's three component and a warhead rocket motor and I think guidance section were the and one of the things we had in the platoon eventually I became a platoon leader. But that was later in my my tour with a with the battalion. And we had a section that was geared just to making sure the, the guidance section would work before we they did the calibrations. And it was. 

SPRAGUE: And it sounds like you had some type of computer or something you type. Yeah we'll do it or how do you. 

KALETA: Yeah well it was a we with the guidance X we had a control panel that was that can that was attached to that. We hooked up to the computer before we launched it and that was where we put in the, the, the coordinates and the, the data needed to, to fire the system. And it was it was it was it was it evolved. It wasn't it. We could probably get the missile fire within 30 minutes from launch by recall correctly. But it it was it was a very accurate system. But it was by then it was getting old. But it was one of the first because the if if you know, buddy army rocketry, we had the first one I think was the corporal and they had the Honest John. They had auditions when I was in Korea because our but our brigade was a part of the fourth missile command in Korea. We had a honest John Battalion and John and we were the sergeant mission battalion just outside Seoul in the near the village of Hassan Goni. 

SPRAGUE: So do you remember anything about Camp Coban or just the town nearby? 

KALETA: It was a small village. What was interesting remember I said we came in three segments and when we were in the first segments arrived. So they took us on a tour of the town and we had I guess we we had they showed us where we had mom's chophouse there, which was they cooked great. Yaki mandu and gravy as we are. Yaki mandu and and Robin from Robin. There was my first introduction to Ravi and i to this. They love Robin. In the butt is mom's chap Amar. They used second ground beef on top of it and they had vegetables and they, oh, it was a little, maybe little spices in there. They put it at dinner. It was great. It was that was a when you get tired of this whole food, you went to the mom shop out. So I always had my routine when I got. The Yakima is Yakima leveler. Yakima. Yakima. 

SPRAGUE: Which every time you guys spend outside the gate, outside of your post, like after hours or. 

KALETA: You can go out into the village, they would go, Guys, there's always bars. And one of your duties as battalion duty officer was to tour make sure the bars and you had. And at that time we had it was kind of you had gosh, it was like the compound was here. The village was here. They had 3 or 4 bars that was open to all soldiers, white, black. But we had one bar that was on the other side of the compound that was that was focused primarily for our black soldiers. Not intentionally, but that's what it seemed to be. So but we they still had a walk around making sure that we were the soldiers were behaving themselves. And it was. You know, when we were that first night in, we were stopped at one of the bars and we had a drink. We were told not to drink the water in Korea because we are such a busy on the village. Don't you don't drink to water because it's it's not the same purification that we had on base. And one of the interesting I thought was. The waitress or the owner came by because we met. We got the new officers on compound to do Excel. And so they were introducing themselves. And one of their owners said, Oh, which one of you is Captain Gizelle? And I looked, we looked Gizelle was on the second or third, and he wasn't even there yet, but they knew he was coming. So their intelligence was pretty good. So we thought, Oh geez, they knew we were coming. 

SPRAGUE: Any experiences on Camp Colburn With like chemical contaminants or anything like that? 

KALETA: No, we were relatively we had, you know, course we trained with, with, with chemical. But I didn't have any experience with, with, with chemicals there. No it was it was relatively we were and one of the things that hit us while we were there, because of the gas shortage, the last portion of our tour, we were grounded. We couldn't leave the compound because of the petrol shortage. We had to conserve gasoline or diesel fuel for our vehicles so we could because we just because of gas shortage, because resulting within increasing our gas prices. 

SPRAGUE: So did the the reason why I ask is there were other career vets roughly the same time. Any exposure to like Agent Orange being used on the perimeter or anything like that, Even in Korea? 

KALETA: In Korea, yes. Because along the DMZ, the second ID was stationed along the DMZ, We're probably 40 miles from the DMZ. So we were not exposed to Agent Orange. I have nothing that nothing of that nature. They didn't, as far as I knew they did during the fight there on our compound, because around we were along about the mountains, like a two Koreas, mountainous. It is you know, I'm not sure they they filmed Mash but they but it is mountainous there. I mean I oh, it was when we would go to our brigade headquarters in Chu John, we flew we had we primarily helicopters. We would not we not drive there we didn't drive into Seoul quite a bit and they had bus going to kill and we whenever we had to go and so we had vehicles to go on to Seoul. But it was it was definitely mountainous and but and around the compound primarily beside them out in the mountain range was rice fields. Rice paddies, because it's primarily a farming community that we are by. So I always wondered that, gee, I'm sure we were targeted by the North Koreans. I just know. 

SPRAGUE: How. 

KALETA: It is. So that's why it's important that we react quickly. And I know that they said during the in 68, when they had the crisis with the the ship forgot the name of the ship that was captured by the North Koreans. They had a launcher on to help out. 

SPRAGUE: Oh. 

KALETA: So it could get tense if it makes sense in Korea, you know. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Any other incidents while you were there? 

KALETA: Not not really. The only incident I had I was asked to for, as I said, for until the next packet came in and one of the packet officers got promoted to captain. So he be. Yes. Two. And I became a platoon leader for platoon leader. And when I was a platoon leader, we were eight. We are still what I first became two between we're able to go on an exercise. We were had a lot going on and I was assigned to go to a certain firing position and we had a, you know, firing position. Juliet, Fire position, Bravo. Well, they yes, reassigned me to one firing position and it had to be the same. A Korean army battalion was occupying the same attack, same area. So we're and I said, I can't occupy this because I was a lieutenant and I was talking to a Korean captain or major what I was. And he was this is my area. This is and I call the three. I can't be your guy. Give me y. Yeah, you're supposed to be there. Said I got I got a Korean battalion here. I can't you know, we can't occupy the same position. Oh, okay. So we got off. But other than that I had no, no, no. My particular instance that I recall. So I was fortunate in that respect. Of course, after I left Korea, they had the that the tree shopping incident. So it just shows you how things can can change very rapidly. And I did hear that the before we my packet got there and I arrived there that there was they called infiltrators come all this valley over before they got so we were getting. But I was fortunate in that respect. We had no serious incidents. We trained, we had alerts and sometimes we we didn't show who called the alert, so we weren't sure whether they were real or not. But. But we were prepared to. Yeah. And we had to move out if we had to. 

SPRAGUE: What do you what are your thoughts? You may be watching the Ukraine war right now with Russia. What and those missiles. Do you have any thoughts on that or. 

KALETA: Oh, I know we could definitely if we gave them long range missiles, they could hit they could hit Russia. And I'd be surprised that they're not doing more attacks on Russia. I don't know if that's being I'm being cautioned not to do so from from the ally, from a NATO's standpoint, I guess in the very we were made Ukraine, of course, is not a naval member. So we don't want to get into a conflict right now. It may happen at some point in time. You know, that's why Finland and Sweden and joining NATO's because they they were not. Not not NATO's members. They they were they were happy with their kid. But with Putin the Russians invading Ukraine. Therefore they changed their minds that this they're not as safe as they thought they would be. Missiles can we had a wide long range for our missile. So. Again, we were strategic and I don't know what's in Europe right now. I'd been gosh, I was retired in 1990, so I have no idea what they what they have in their right now. But I know the artillery because I later served in Germany in an artillery battery. And. The artillery are using I'm familiar with the ranges of that. But again if tactical more or than strategic. 

SPRAGUE: So you get done in Korea, did they give you a choice where your next duty station was? 

KALETA: They did. I had an option. And believe it or not, I wanted to go to 101st because I'd gone airborne training and I was fascinated with 101st. I was I was wanted to go airborne. I was either the 82nd or the 101st at that time. So I volunteered for it and I had orders for Fort Campbell. And so when I left Korea, I left Korea, I think January 6th of 1975. And then I had a three day leave. And then I reported to Campbell in. February of 1975. And unfortunately, the 101st put off airborne staff. I just that third Brigade just went off status just probably a week before I arrived there. And I it was the it was I was to say the least, I was disappointed. I was all set to continue to jump out of airplanes. And but the Army is again, Vietnam is a 75 now. And they were really thinking strategy, what things were going to happen. And I guess they felt that just having one Airborne Division was sufficient. And with the. First experience in Vietnam with air assault as 101st became on the 101st Airborne Division Air Assault Division. So later and going to Air assault school and. 

SPRAGUE: Campbell Oh, so when you got there in February of 75, what was your first posting? 

KALETA: I was assigned to headquarter Battery Division Artillery, and I was assigned as the Target acquisition battery. Our Target acquisition platoon commander assigned to be Dave already at 101st. What I had was a response force for a survey section and a metro, the metrological section, because when you fire artillery, it's you want to get your most accurate information as possible. So one of the things when you do your firing and computation is you put in metadata mineralogical data and the Met data is achieved by from the Vardy headquarters. We have a metal section doing weather periodically when we have batteries firing. And that's what. I was responsible for. So I had a metal section and I had a survey section, but in reality I worked for the battalion, the Nevada too. So I did security duties as well. So I was platoon leader. But I had I saw I was a semi staff officer, a semi platoon leader, because I work and because I didn't have other if in other line armor divisions, the Target acquisition platoon would have might have a sound and flash Platoon. They do other things, other things to help acquire targets. But I was all I had was that all I had, I was responsible for a survey section and for a metrological section. 

SPRAGUE: And that would have been at the h h B of the diversity. 

KALETA: Nevada Division Artillery. 

SPRAGUE: Okay, so that's a division asset then? 

KALETA: It's a division. And it was because the way the division, at least during the 70s you had the divisions had three direction, usually had three, three brigade, and they had each brigade had a direct support artillery battalion supporting it. And we had three at the end, but they were controlled by two Vardy plus we had that time. We had a we had three direct support battalions. Then we had the a fourth Battalion was an aerial field artillery battalion and they were Cobras, but they were controlled by our by the Vardy at the time initially. Then we had a gosh. A. Observation helicopter. Unit that would would run that would support De Vardy as well would aircraft would always be primarily 58 and and Hueys and that was also cited the Vardy. So they've already had a fair amount of assets. And so again, I was working, I was assigned as a platoon leader, but I also did staff work too. Some of that was quite interesting. 

SPRAGUE: So as a Target acquisition platoon leader, what I have some ideas in my head, but what in terms of you told me what to say sections that has what does that look like on the ground that function underground. 

KALETA: Well we were doing survey for the the artillery people. Each battalion had their own battalion survey. We would do bring surveys of the battalion service department sections, could take a survey to the batteries. We took it from general view you'd ask it points to get getting closer to the battalion areas and then the battalions would take it from there to the firing batteries of the survey. At that time, we had, gosh, it was. 

SPRAGUE: A. 

KALETA: 30 meter tape. The satellites and we computer things via logbook category. So it was manual computation. We did have our gosh, we were able to figure out what was what the device was. Now, when you get it, get a certain age, you forget it. But we could take it. It was like taking a laser shot, but it wasn't really I forget what it called. I have to look. I should refresh my memory about that. But we were able to do distance. Distance shooting that way as well. It didn't always work, but that's why you always depended upon what a lot of it was at that time, even with the artillery was fly drills, even though we had feedback. Until recently, until the 80s and 90s, where it got more computerized, it was still and quite accurate though. But we did a lot of manual computations for the artillery. But so we were in fact one of the exercises when I first got to Campbell, I remember getting there in February. We had a a training exercise, a field exercise on post, and we also incorporated we had elements from the Target acquisition battalion that was assigned. We were part of an airborne corps. So the 101st 82nd, we're all part of 18 Airborne Corps. And so we had the Target acquisition Battalion. They sent an element to us reporting as exercise and my survey section, we were spotters for the exercise. We would look for their training. I was the helicopter information test officer. That was my for the exercise we were trying to locate, see how well we could spot enemy aircraft or enemy helicopters specifically landing in our. And we were playing a war game one bit from brigade against another brigade. And so we were on. So my, my survey section was looking for spotters. We're looking for four enemy that are opposing force aircraft. And so I had to and we plotted where our positions would be since we were the defending force we knew. And so I read and one of the things I would probably not tactical position, but we put it on top of a water tower. We we took the, I think an M2 aiming circle or of the satellite and we hoisted it up on top of the catwalk for a. Water tower at at Campbell for one we're positioned great view but tactically we would have been sitting ducks, you know, but we had different positions that we would would pick up. And that was interesting because I had to get, first of all, climb up a water tower is just not is not fun. I mean, it wasn't fun for me, but I had to do it because that I get my soldiers up there. So I know my soldiers up there. So we did that. We part of this part of the exercise. And in fact, I think one of my soldiers got a citation because it just so happened that we were the enemy aircraft landed here and he was there and he called fire and, you know, theoretical fire on it. And he got a citation because he was destroyed. Then the hypothetical enemy. 

SPRAGUE: How what gun tubes did you guys have gunships? 

KALETA: We had cobras. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. 

KALETA: So we had H one cobras assigned to do Vardy. And and it was interesting because why was with the Vardy and I was in the Vardy from February of 75 to October of 76. The as fourth of the 77th aerial field artillery became an attack helicopter battalion and was part of 101st Airborne attack. They rearranged the aerial assets so the Vardy lost its aerial helicopters, I mean the Cobras and they became part of the attack brigade for the 101st. They restructured things while I was there. So we lost that. 

SPRAGUE: Your artillery pieces, what were they for those three main battalions for? 

KALETA: When I was with the Vardy, they were primarily, what, 50105I am am 1 or 2. Or five Howitzers at that time in the Army's inventory we had the em 101A1, two, three split trail 105 And we had and 1 or 2 which was more wasn't split trail, but we had a wheel we could wheel around her to get into the right deflection right direction. So the ammo to throw them were more mobile and we practiced air assault rates with which and we would do it primarily by putting a. Either a battery or a gun section on the back inside a Chinook and then landing theoretically behind. I need a light fighter, then get the heck out of there. So that was what we are training Florida to do. When I was there with 101st, at least with the Nevada General Gunfighter, Emerson was the Corps commander. He was a he was he had a nickname, a gun for, I think, first or something he did in Vietnam. But he was also in charge of a second ID when I was in Korea. And he was just he was he had all kind of weird ideas. We did a lot of combat sports, believe it or not. We had combat football, combat basketball. Three guys toughened up, too. And that was always there was some interesting athletics at that point. To me, physical fitness was was prime. The 101st. She got it. We worked on that. 

SPRAGUE: Probably with the 105. Yeah, it was probably greater mobility, I would imagine. 

KALETA: It was when I was with the Varsity. We also who participated in Reforge. Are you on what you're referring to? Would Forger in the summer of 76, the 101st. Participated in return to Germany or forces in Germany exercised and two brigades from 101st and. The Nevada and Continental support troops. We moved from Campbell to to Germany and to participate in the two week to week. I think the actual reforms were exercised. But of course, you had to deploy earlier that to get everybody out there. And at that time I was still a Target acquisition platoon leader. And so we went out there primarily to support the headquarters battery, My So my service, we weren't able to do any survey there and we weren't doing any live firing. So the metro section stayed back at at Campbell. But the survey section supported different things might, might put my platoon, my survey section there. They they did things in the Vardy headquartered in attack driving different elements they were scattered throughout the the support to the headquarters battery. 

SPRAGUE: And that would have been a record to 76 in the summer of 70 it. 

KALETA: Was we started in gosh, in August, September, and I think we got back and it was August, September of 76. And it was interesting to say the least. It was it was good. It was. It was a an interesting exercise because moving the whole division there, it was the first time that they had moved since, you know, of course, since deploying to Vietnam and getting logistically just make the appreciation of getting it, getting things out there. We had an unfortunate incident. I'm not sure I should have said this or not, but the divided commander was relieved during Reforged and so we had a change of command. And it was interesting because we were on an exercise the first week of the exercise with you, different scenarios, and we got back to after playing the first scenario, we got back and found out that the division commander was relieved. And it just so happened the incoming demand because they were going to have a change of command anyway after he got back from Europe and he was just visiting just to check things out and he stopped taking command the Sunday morning as we left. I forgot what day we started the first week of the exercise, but we got back on on Friday or Saturday, and then Sunday morning we moved out again for the second phase of the exercise and he took before we moved out, he took command division, artillery and. Moved out and. 

SPRAGUE: And that diversity position, is that a one star or is it. 

KALETA: You know, it can't be a one star during peacetime. It's normally a full colonel. If you recall, during Bastogne, the diversity commander was General Terry McAuliffe, the famous nuts commander, who should hold that until the surrender said nuts, but and so on during your very war or to the party commander was usually a brigadier. But in Vietnam and after after World War Two and during Korea, during Vietnam, there have already was a full colonel. 

SPRAGUE: And what was help me out here and referred to 76. What was the general strategic plan for the 101st Airborne Division? 

KALETA: Oh, the we were reinforcement for I think we were assigned this, I think not knowing at the time, but looking back what area we we were reinforcements for the the. For you, Usher. And so we would be either deployed to the fifth or seventh Corps area. The exercise took place primarily, I think, in the seventh Corps area. And we are, again, to reinforce that. And I think, again, I was just a I was a young captain that I made captain. Why was it and the Varsity. And so I wasn't privy to what the strategic plans were. But knowing what we were training for, it looks like we would do deployments depending on the actual situation on beyond the the line that the feedback the the Ford edge of the battle area. And because we were our mobile aeroshell so we were trained to land the helicopters and be on the behind the lines. So we were going to attack our positions. So we had black positions beyond the feedback that I think our our goal was. And we did it when. Because I was a pseudo staff officer, when we established the diversity task, I was one of my jobs was to go to set up for the base camp the beginning of time. So we would fly ahead on a couple of Hueys and get into position, set up the tank, and then the main element would arrive and then we'd try to control the the artillery, you know, during the exercise. And then. 

SPRAGUE: What? Backing up just a little bit in that same timeframe. Do you remember were you able to maybe you were deployed at the time, but or you may have been in the States when the evacuation of Vietnam happened? 

KALETA: Oh, yes. Oh, gosh. I was I had joined the hundred first in February of 75. And if you recall, the fall of the fall of Saigon was in April of 75. I had it. And B. I think it was the duty officer that that night. And and we had TV screen in the party headquarters. And I watched the evacuation on on TV. And it was a very somber just 101st sacrifice quite a bit during Vietnam. The whole Army did. And it was, you know, I was serving then because we had the division just came back and in 73, 73, 74 timeframe. So you still had a lot of Vietnam era soldiers there. And it's just a majority of war. So Vietnam experience in Vietnam and one way or the other. So it was very somber, to say the least, because, you know, they had a country felt, you know, just it was just. But we had to go out and. 

SPRAGUE: Do you see any parallels there between what happened in Afghanistan and. 

KALETA: Yeah. And that was more, I think, Afghan, at least in Vietnam. The the they lasted at least a year before they they. Did continue. I did. But it it's and it depends on your studies of the Vietnam War you know because when I was in OCS our focus was Vietnam. In fact until I got to Korea, that was what our my ya. And then Germany and Germany, the Soviet was also we we knew that we had to be prepared to fight, at least in Vietnam, if not Vietnam, possibly in Europe. So those were the primary training focuses prior to going Korea. The thought was was Vietnam. After Korea, it was, of course, we were out of Vietnam then. And so the focus was was Europe. That was the primary focus for the divisions and how we were going to get there are up till 89 when the Bruin wall fell out with. 

SPRAGUE: And what was here in the shortest sense possible. Explain to somebody who didn't know about the Cold War what that sense was, why those are all connected. 

KALETA: Oh, it's all connect. I think it was, you know, after World War Two, you know, we we were allied with with the with the Soviets. But even during or after it was starting, it kind it they because they occupied all of Eastern Europe they wanted to have it was the of course the Soviets were very. Mary. They were afraid of Germany. They wanted to dismantle Germany. They wanted to do that, too. Completely oblivious. Germany, because they've had two devastating wars with them within within 40 years. And they were just bored and they were concerned about their own because a lot for many people there. And they wanted the buffer states and they want to control Eastern Europe, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Romania. They wanted control of it. And of course, we were fighting a war for democracy and we won. In fact, one of the biggest things was with Poland. You know, Poland was one reason that Europe and went to war. And there in the Soviet bloc, well, they control that by hook or by crook. They got they got control of Eastern Europe. And so in 46, that's when I think the official Cold War began. And then then we get we the occupying the powers. England. England, Great Britain, France, United States and Russia that we occupied Germany. And we had that. Each country had their own sectors. And we divided Berlin, Berlin between the French, the British, the Americans and the Soviets. And the the Berlin airlift. Because we would because we were supplying our troops. And the people in in Western and West would eventually became West Berlin. But the Soviets, because of strategically they wanted to the trade. They wanted to hold Berlin. So they thought they could do that by staring out Berlin. And they underestimated, again, the willpower of Natal. And in fact, it probably wasn't the natal of that time because Natal was informed till 1950, but of the Western powers. And so the United States did the Berlin airlift and eventually they just gave up because they're suffering more than that. And again, they block and blocked supplies going into to Eastern Europe and to eastern Germany and Russia. So they were suffering because they couldn't get supplies. And so they gave up the blockade a year later. But that's you know, those are things that happened during the Cold War. Then, of course, Korea was again, the fall of China in 1949, I believe it was. That contributed to the Chinese communist versus Russian time. They play a different version of the communists. So communism is slightly different. They're both told stereotype regimes. Remember I said the I replaced the guy, my officer in Korea. That officer he was my officer was Art Nicholson. Art was one of the last casualties in the Cold War. He was assigned to my unit in Germany in gosh, oh, gosh, it had to be in the late 1980s. Early 1980s. And. He at that time we had an agreement, status of forces agreement in in Germany where in order to prevent unexpected war, we allowed Soviet groups to come traveling in western and western Germany. And then we had they allowed us to have groups to go into Eastern Europe and just observe troop movements just to keep while I was in an area he probably shouldn't have been. He and his driver and he was spotted by. I think it was East German guards and they told would get away and he did. They should haul POW and then bang, bang. He was shot. He was killed because they. He was an area he shouldn't have been. But that was times were captured in that time frame. And unfortunately, he was one of the last people to get their casualties during the Cold War. And people will always realize that it wasn't it was cold so that we were in a major conflict. But we did lose people in in exercises, in in engagements with with where we don't hear about it. And this was one of the things that was was hurt, was hurt. And he was one of the last casualties of the Cold War and. Mickelson heart. 

SPRAGUE: Mickelson He was a major, major. 

KALETA: And I had an article that was in that I used to give classes on and Cold War, and that was one that I, I mentioned Arch and I forgot what era I just at the excuse my, my, my memory lapse there. But it was in the 1980s because he we were his contemporaries and I was a major in the 80s and he was a major in the 80s. He was a smart guy, real. But he was he was intense and he was. Looking for information. He was intelligence officer and he was checking out an area to see what was going on and happened to be discovered by Soviet bloc guards and was shot. They they should have shot him. He he was he was authorized to be there. He was we had the agreement there that you could come here, look at us. We look at you guys just to make sure we're, you know, we're we're playing fair. And the guards were inexperienced, whatever might be. He was shot and killed. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. Let's head back to Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Okay. And go back to October of 76 and your next duty within 101st. 

KALETA: My next shooting. I. Was fortunate that we might mention that the 101st had 1 or 5 battalions. The decision was that the 101st needed the general support artillery, the 105 for direct support. I mean, they provided direct support directly to the the infantry units assigned the 101st. But you needed they wanted something, a larger caliber to be general support. So the Army decided that the 101st were to get A155 battalion. It was M11 for Alpha one split trail that we should call the pig because it's a big, heavy sucker to move around. But the 155 extended their range and we are more or less general support artillery that reinforce the different artillery. Tonight there are different missions, Jack. Hillary receives. We could be a direct support or we're directly supporting a unit. They could be a reinforcing where you have a unit supporting that battalion, a general support reserve. Oh gosh, Sarge, general support reserves, a different mission and then general support where the depends on where it's needed. The artillery fires can be directed. So we were going to be supporting the direct support battalions. They had to had one before and they did have in Vietnam. They had a in fact, I'm in contact with one of the platoon leaders who tells us there was a fire direction officer that was direct support for the war and A155 battalion for the Hunter, first in Vietnam because he supported the hamburger Hamburger Hill operation. But that's another story as well. Tangible. He's a real good guy. But he was that was his battalion's mission support 101st with 155 fire in Vietnam. So the army side to get A155 battalion at Campbell and it was a second and 31st field artillery and. So and we had five batteries assigned to that battalion, a headquarters headquarters battery, a headquarters server battery and three firing batteries, Alpha, Bravo and Charlie that had the one, five five. And so we were again, general support for the division at that time. And so I was fortunate to get selected as the h h b commander. And what was interesting because while we were in re forger, the decision was made to do that and they assigned a first lieutenant air defense artillery that was with the 101st that was going to be rotated out to be the to get things organized. So he was starting to get the troops together. And as we saw were he got more soldiers, it became is expanded and they are able to establish the headquarters, battery and headquarters service battery, the service battery. And so myself and another friend of mine became the battery commanders for H, H, B and HSP. And then we had other people join us for Alpha Bravo and Charlie, the firing batteries. And so we formed the battalion there. And starting in October of 76 and when you start a a new unit, you have to first of all, gather all the troops, start their training for those troops, because you have to go to our camp, which is the Army training. And I've got the E stands for exercise program, where you have to be certified as a bona fide. You could do your mission. And so we had to train for the aatip. And but that took a while. Then you had the IG and we had a because we were eligible to fire special weapons, we had to go through a security inspection. So we had several gates to perform before we were certified as a artillery and a artillery battalion that that could support the 101st. And so we had those gates were formed. The first was the Aatip. And we again, we did the Aatip in August-September of 77. And then after that, we had the. NSA, a nuclear security inspection. And then we had the Aatip and not Aatip, but the IG IG is the inspector general inspection. So we had to go through all those gates before we were certified as a bonafide US. Our U.S. Army artillery support battalion and we got our blessings from the army. 

SPRAGUE: What? So it sounds like to me it almost took at least a year to it. 

KALETA: Did we start that? You figure we've the battalions that form the next October 76th and we finish with the IG in January of 78. And so but it takes a while because, you know, the army just doesn't form units without being certified because that's dangerous, you know, And I mean, it's you have to be trained and it's, it highlights the fact that I don't think I ever really appreciated the. That what we had to go through with. Yes. Three you know as a as a substitute leader. Oh, my gosh, we got to do this. Why are we doing this? You know, but you have to have that individual soldiers have to be trained on individual task and then your sections have to be trained under task and that your batteries, your companies need to be trained to. To standard. And with the rotation. It is a continual thing to be trained because if we don't do that. Historically we've had problems. Korea during the Korean War task force myth is perhaps the father of a flower child for that, for lack of training, they're thrown into combat and they didn't have the assets. They were able to maintain the training. And the army learned that you can't do that. You're you're sacrificing people by that way. So it's a continual training. You're always training. At least you should be training. And I. I'm hoping that the guy that the Army's continue to do that because when we were when I was in, we did it. And for sure when you were it, you always trained, you're always poor. You're never getting ready for stuff because that's your mission. That's what you get paid for, you know, as what you're you're serving your country for. 

SPRAGUE: So would you characterize your assignment as a h h b commander? Different than most h h b commanders, it sounds like. 

KALETA: I'm not sure is different. But it was. It because in the army, which of course was consolidating things too. So we had a consolidated mess hall even though when we were out in the field we each battery had their own mess support, you know, but and we had a battalion maintenance all in one area. But I was responsible because we concluded I had a camel platoon. I had a a stinger platoon that was my my battery because we had to have air defense. And of course, the hundred and first was air assault. So we weren't an armored division. We were a light infantry division. And so we didn't have the. The hot missile systems or the chaparral or the Vulcan systems to support us. It was hard because we had to we were air mobile. So you get a helicopter. We that sort of we had no we had some vehicles. Now we did have a five tons, you know, do seven, five, ten support to carry that one. 105. Even though they are air mobile and we could air mobile. We did have, for the most part our duty and have. And five times to maneuver the the the 1 or 5 other done the one by fives the M one because that's you're very heavy. I forgot the way they were. But and they can be carried by a Chinook but it was not internal like the 1 or 5 it was sling loaded and you can move a battery but you need at least 6 or 7 Chinooks to do so, you know, so it was so we were we were theoretically air mobile, but the thought was we would probably would would support the division by by vehicle, but we had to be our mobile air assault qualified. So a lot of us had to air assault school. A lot of our soldiers did. The battery commanders, battalion commander, the XO, the S-3, we all were. We're so qualified. 

SPRAGUE: What do you think? Did you attend the course or was it a separate course or was it a an after award of the. 

KALETA: Oh, it was a no. It was of course, we had the air. We were initially when they when division went off of airborne status, they use the when you're an airborne unit, you still have the job towers. You have the the 34 foot towers because you still need to train. And that's what the three are. They jump towers, but the 34 foot towers to the train because you even when you're airborne, you pretty out you go back for refresher training because you you know, if you don't do it all the time, you know, I'm I'm qualified. But ask me now is this 70 plus year old to jump. I think I remember I could I definitely could exit the aircraft. Well, I could land properly or not would be another story. But. But I'll hit the ground. I know I'll land. But they developed an aerosol skill to develop aerosol techniques and rappelling from a helicopter, rappelling from primary, from a helicopter. So, you know, we learned how to repel from a UAH. One we learned into at night, during the day into trees and getting from the tree to the ground. So we learned to do that. It was physically demanding because it was one of the first things we did was a ten mile road march, and you had to get through that to do the start train. So it and so you had P T and it wasn't as long as airport school, airborne school, it was perhaps more physically demanding, but it wasn't air assault wasn't actually a walk in the park either. It was. But by then I was I was used to that for the most part, though, I had blisters on my feet from the walk. It was painful going through the day. And you learn how to to bring in helicopters, to learn how to signal which way to to bring them in, how to shrink sling load. So you learn how to to manipulate whatever result you will, because that was the division's mission. We're primarily going to be air assaulted into our fighting positions. Least that's what they hope to be able to do. 

SPRAGUE: In your rotation, did you were you part of the as part of h h b, were you part of the division ready force or 24 wheels up time kind of thing? 

KALETA: We didn't have that mission per se. The hot first thing to have that the 82nd had always had a had a a battalion, a brigade on standby. We didn't have that. It was always with 101st. We were again, they felt that we were by the time that they get the 80s their first and we follow on. So we didn't have anybody strictly on an standpoint. We did have long range patrols, folks recon folks that were that even though we were the division was not air, but we did have a segment that was still airborne. The recon section for the division was was there was airborne in case they needed it. But no, we weren't we didn't have a we didn't have it, at least it at that time we didn't have. 

SPRAGUE: So going back to the company, what was your relationship with your first sergeant like? 

KALETA: Oh, I had well, I had a real super first sergeant. He was he was very good. And unfortunately, he got because he was so good. We need a certain battalion sergeant major and he got picked to go be the acting battalion sergeant major as an eight. He went through the Sergeant Major Academy. He was he was very good. The replacement first sergeant I had wasn't that good. I he had some medical issues, some and I had to he was generally it was a challenging and he was reassigned later on. And I and we once we got the sergeant major had actual command sergeant major for the battalion. My former first sergeant had a selection where he wanted to go and he elected to come back to h h B and so I was fortunate to get him back as my. My first sergeant again. But it was but I had some my combo sergeant was excellent. He was my first sergeant at 4HHB second. The 31st was an eight with the with the diamond in the middle of my combo sergeant was an E7I think. And he was, he was great. I mean I had the man I got I get the Jeep saga on recon and I got the jeep stuck and I'm sure they blessed me underneath their breath to try to get the jeep unstuck. I was out of recon and I got stuck in a mud puddle. So as not, I'm. But they were real good guys. They were. They are real excellent professional soldiers. 

SPRAGUE: O h h b Commander, what what makes that role different than one of the line companies? 

KALETA: You're responsible for more variety. When you have a firing battery or a line company, you're dealing with a tactic. You're actually, you know, firing the. Making sure the battery can fire and doing the FTC, all of that. But what you're. Headquartered bad or hardcore serious battery you're spread out because you're not you don't have that one district you may have. Officials assigned to you but they're not They're attached someplace else. Your responsibilities are more wide range. Your risk as a headquarters battery might, I guess when the battalion deployed, I had to make sure that we had the battalion headquarters set up correctly, and that was a big operation to make sure that was operative. That's why Carmel being a signal officer, that is just key. And we have the old VRC 46 series radios and they were just they were a problem, to say the least. The PRC 77 say, oh, gosh, I like it. And I, I had I had to be admit I admit I was the choices of great Carmel officers and I always pity them because the battalion commander why can't I try and they would always get all kind of and with battalion because the battalion that three is key for making the battalion operate and the firing batteries not because they gave the mission. They got you know, they coordinated the missions were the firing batteries. And so my job was to make sure the headquarters were set up. So I just and then make sure that we were protected, defended with with our air, with our Stinger platoon to provide support for. And I, I think I understand sections to the are firing batteries for their protection. So I had troops I was responsible for that were scattered over the the responsibility for the battalion. But so it was it was a it was interesting to say the least. 

SPRAGUE: You know, what was a in the most general sense. Do you did you have a sense of the state of the Army after Vietnam or do you not have had a ability to contrast yet with. 

KALETA: We still had a a number of draftee, a draftees. And the question in 75 was more the volunteer army coming in. And I think we were still blessed or I was still blessed because many of my NCO throughout the remainder of my career were Vietnam, had Vietnam experience, were combat and seals. And that allowed a lot of. For training. You know, they realized what what the consequences were. And I see training is always important for that. The NCO corps is what I think. You know, we officers get some sometimes more credit than we should. But in college we have good NCOs you're going to have. And I was fortunate. The only reason I made feel great, officer, was because of my NCOs. I mean, I have my own limitations, but I appreciated with what they did and the work ethic work they did. You know, the officers work hard. Don't get me wrong, we're responsible. So, I mean, it's not like a it's not a bed of roses being, as you may see sometimes on TV. Oh, yeah. I would call you show heroes. So as the prime example, I'm going to take my boat and go go someplace else, you know? No, You ate glass. You made sure you ate your troops ate first. I you, you, you. Unless you unless you're doing in our shop. When I was a flying battery commander, later on, you had to recant your got your position. You were moving out with the Free Revanche party. You made sure your advance party were fed, you ate, and then you're because you had to move out, you know, rigorous or whatever that occurred. 

SPRAGUE: Some did while you were. H.H. be commander second of the 31st. Did you have any more reporters while you were there? 

KALETA: Resources? A reporter No, not that. We were primarily try and get certified and we certified before I came. In in February, I had orders to go the advantage course at Fort Sill. So I was I in fact, I gave up command of headquarters battery to my my my camel platoon leader home. And he was out. He was as well our signal officer that come up platoon our signal. But our signal officer became the be commander for the hundred and first because he was cash rich fella was his name. He was a great guy. We because even though I had a camel platoon, we had a battalion signal officer responsible for. According The signal for the battalion, and that's a key position. Even though I had a small platoon leader, I had it with me. It was the staff officer who took over the account. He was good. 

SPRAGUE: So 77, 78. Were you involved with training National Guard units at all or not? 

KALETA: Oh, yeah, sure. Oh, gosh, what else? I did. I trained when I was 100. First I was at the very I forgot that one episode when I, I was summer of 75. We trained we were providing evaluators for training for the 47th Division in Minnesota. So I went to Camp Ripley for a couple of weeks as an evaluator. And that was fun. That was interesting. And it was interesting because with the National Guard at that time, because you figure this is 75 and they were just out in transition from having some Vietnam era NCOs and soldiers and some Korean or good. Sometimes when you're in the Guard, you could be from Korea yet and still serving in the Guard. And they did some things that were just superb. They did a night occupation that would be the envy of an active duty unit. It was. They did, sir. But the other thing is, they some of the other things they did wasn't quite so good. You know, not that they were really bad, but, you know, there was other things that they could an improved upon. But I had the privilege of working with the 47th. Avenue Division there. The one of their, in fact, I think, evaluated their HB two already. And it was a good unit, but they weren't perfect. But they did sort of things that were just outstanding out of the things that were. Not as good. 

SPRAGUE: That would have been in 75. 

KALETA: That was in 75. 

SPRAGUE: Okay, So let's hop back to 77 now. Did you I know you talk about it that you did later, but did you had you met your wife at work? 

KALETA: I did. In fact, it was interesting. My wife was assigned to Campbell in 76. She's an Army nurse and she was part of their rain program. The rain program was the Walter Reed Army Institute of Nursing. And this was during Vietnam. It might have been existing between when World War Two and Korea two. But they needed army needed nurses. And so they offered scholarships to high school students if they would join the army. And they joined the army. And they spent the first two years at a civilian college. And she was even though she was a and she was paid as a PFC and but she was stated and she was from Detroit and went to Mercy College in Detroit. And for her first two years of college. But she had to take certain courses to certain courses. And then the last two years, she studied at Walter Reed Army Institute of Nursing and did her training at Walter Reed and Bethesda Naval Bethesda Naval Hospital in Washington, D.C. And she got her degree from the University of Maryland because the Army couldn't offer get grads a degree and have to go through university. So the curriculum they took nursing classes was actually through was sponsored by the University of Maryland. But they are taught primarily by army nurses at Walter Reed. So she was an Army nurse, got commissioned in 76 and got assigned to Fort Campbell. And then we jokingly say that the Army issued me a wife and issued her a husband, you know, because we met. And then we got married in October of 76. And I think I proposed in in June and decided on our wedding date. Do you want to get married before the NSI after the our ten or so. We had the plan with the plan our wedding based on my availability. And you may appreciate that because the army doesn't go around your your personal schedule. And so we planned the wedding for the end of October of 1977, and it was after the aatip and before the NSA and before the IG, the IG was going to be an Army inspector general, especially for a new unit, is quite intense. They look at all everything in your records and how your your training, your training records, your your. Why records. You know how they talk to your soldiers. Make sure they're trained, They look for problems. The IG was one of the jokes where the IG was out. They're here to help. They're not really there to help. You can. I mean, do you? It is strict. So is it is it is. To say it's disbanded. It's it it has to be because you're going to be you're going to be you're going to take care of soldiers. So you want to make sure your battalions are doing that, you know. But we got that. We got married and then we had the other inspections after we I was fortunate to take a honeymoon for two weeks, which was not always the case. And many, many people. But we we did. And but because of the Army's wisdom, I had orders to go to Fort Sill for Divisions Course. The Army is very good. On training for officers and NCOs. You very rarely go We one aside before you go to school, somewhere along the lines to be for your next assignment could be airborne school and could be the advanced advanced courses like a refresher course for captains. And prepare them be battery commanders or. Or staff officers. And of course, when you first become commissioned, even though you're commissioned and ROTC, ROTC, if you're it was at that time a little slightly different because we did our all we see with the artillery, with the West Pointers, any ROTC. See, Lieutenant. But you have to get trained in your your specialty. And then you go on to your assignment. They don't want people that are not trained to go out there, even though you're still learning. You know, you do all the basic, you know, to be dangerous and you learn when you're on your unit. But it was so we got married and then I had orders to go to Fort Sill. 

SPRAGUE: And before we go ahead, quick interrupt you here. First. You're the acronym for your wife's, the program that she went through. 

KALETA: She went to the rain program, Debbie R a I and Walter Reed Army. Walter Reed Army Institute of Nursing, WRAL. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. 

KALETA: Got a guest spot, right? Yeah. 

SPRAGUE: And then one other technical question. When you were with 101st, what color braided you wear? 

KALETA: Oh, your that's all. After Vietnam, the Army, we had this thing about the different berets and the 80s had a maroon beret, the 101st we had this blue beret, so we wore blueberry. If you were a a whack or an army nurse, you wore a black beret, a different type of beret. If you were assigned to a force com unit, you had a red beret. If you had, you were assigned. We had a cab unit this second, the 17 air Cav, they wore Stetsons. If you worked on the airfield, you had a green baseball cap or something. If you were an MP, you had a pea green, so you had a platoon thorough of different berets. And I don't like berets. The hard and the and then we you could wear them with your, your class ace too besides your your fatigues and I guess my first before they berets came one of the things I was most proud about was I could wear being assigned to an airborne unit even though the air didn't air. So I grabbed a glider patch on my on my service camp. Not yeah, yeah. Garrison know the flat cap and that I thought that was cool. I just thought that was they didn't need berets. They just needed to wear that. That is a distinction. 

SPRAGUE: And then didn't that glider then change in that same time frame from a glider to air, mobile or air? 

KALETA: Yeah, they're changing it. Yeah, because I think I wore the glider back to that time. They didn't have, they're just starting the air assault concept. And so now I may have changed it, but when I was there, in fact, one of the first thing I did, I would jump school but get a get the patch put on. But I was told by when I would be reported to by a missile battalion that I couldn't wear that, that we weren't fired because I wasn't it wasn't an airborne unit, the missile battalion. I couldn't wear that that glider patch under my garrison cap. You have a garrison cap. So I couldn't wear that and I had to sew, but I kept it for when I work with that 101st, I could wear it when I was with 101st. At least when I was with 100 for sure we could wear it. So I enjoyed wearing that. But we also good world. So I had the beret and I could I actually had the the service cap, the saucer cap to I could we could wear it. So is depends on depends on what was the. What was going on. One of the because I was assigned back up to with 101st headquarters battery I and because I was sort of attached to the S to office for operational control. When he asked who didn't want to participate in the ceremony at the division headquarters because we used to have ceremonies at division headquarters. I got to be the s two for the ceremony. So it was always fun. The band played and we had it was always a. 

SPRAGUE: Was it at to your tour in Kentucky when you completed your Masters? Was that. 

KALETA: Yeah, I was there. I the Army's good at one incursion on school and why was added at 101st they had what they called Eagle University because 100 share board division. And what they did was they used some old World War two built in this sector of Fort Campbell, and they invited professors and course professors from Austin Peay University, which was in in Clarksville from western Kentucky, which was in Bowling Green, Kentucky, because Fort Campbell, Kentucky, half is in Kentucky, and part of it is in Tennessee. Fact most of it is probably in Tennessee. And they would cut its instructors here. And we are the quarters system. And you could take college course you could earn your bachelors degree or weren't earn a master's degree in various categories. And so I enlisted in a master's in public service program that was sponsored by Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green. And it was great because they would sometime when we deployed for referral, Georgia, they they suspended the classes because half the division, more than three quarters of the division was or two thirds of the division was gone. But and they didn't always work with it. You know, you had other exercises to try to work around, but they were, for the most part, very, very flexible in their time. It was the biggest thing was for room with reforms. Your classes were suspended, but I was able for the quota system and I enrolled in classes probably in the spring shortly after I got to Fort Campbell. And it was geared that by the time you graduate, you finish your tour through your tour, you could just about finish your master's degree. And so when I finished my tour, Campbell, I was one course shy and I took it independence for independent study at Fort Sill and then took my comm exam before I applied to Europe later on for further assignment. 

SPRAGUE: So you end up in 78 going on to the advanced course? 

KALETA: Yes. And then you leave my wife at Fort Campbell because the Army wouldn't send her to Campbell because they sent her to I mean, Fort Sill, she would have to stay there for three years because they wouldn't because I was on or I was scheduled for rotation. She wasn't. So she was at the staying at Campbell. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. And then you also and suddenly you took a nuclear chemical target analysis. 

KALETA: Yes, because I was going to a armor Division I, I took a and I volunteered to become one of the initial classes you could take. Our specialty was nuclear chemical targeted. And because even though. The army had to be prepared to use nuclear weapons, it's just a fact of life. I mean, the Soviets had and if to say we didn't have them would be. But we tried The army, which is a certain military service we were very conscious of, try believe it or not, try to minimize civilian civilian casualties and troop casualties because of nuclear chemical targeting. Is is is it can be. Yeah. Be very careful where you or those around you don't drop rounds that that can do your effect your your own troops more so than the enemy. So you were very cognizant of of the killer tonnage of of nuclear weapons and for the fact we trained with that and I classified material to train for and we're not using actual yields etc.. But we looked at at the. The yield, what the safe distance would be, where the effects would. And we applaud that. If you ask me to do it now, I couldn't do it. I mean, I just. But it's a it's a manual that we had that was. 

SPRAGUE: Take a look at that. You know. Zoom in on. 

KALETA: It. Yeah. 

SPRAGUE: Staff officers. Field Manual. Nicole Nuclear weapons. Employment. Now, you were involved with that? 

KALETA: Yeah, well, actually. And this was one of the training manuals. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. 

KALETA: It is. It is unclassified. It was just made up data. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. 

KALETA: But but it gave us because there's got the mathematics involved in that. You have to be able to do some plotting. And so it was, I think, a 3 or 4 week class, which we took. And so we got an additional school identifier. And I if I if you asked me about that school identifier. Right. I'll look it up later. But the Army's good at it. You know, if you give it molasses and when you're a for instance, as an artillery after I was, I thought 13 alpha. But because I was airborne I 13 alpha papa AP that is and I think five was targeting for 30 Alpha five for power and then they can have all kind of and if you were and change your classifications over the year from 13 alpha which was artillery if there was something else before 11 the 1110. I don't I forget what that the officer classifications were different then they became this very similar to the enlisted classifications because when I was enlisted as a combat engineer, engineer, I think I was a 12 alpha ten. 

SPRAGUE: So okay. 

KALETA: Like confusion numbers. 

SPRAGUE: No, no, that's okay. Why don't we take a quick break? Good idea. Okay. This one segment one, this is segment two with Luke Sprague and Alex Collado. And this is segment two of his interview. Okay, Alex, we're going to pick up with you finding out that you had orders to Germany. 

KALETA: Yeah. Yeah. So he orders from Germany. And then we had to get my wife's orders to Germany. So she had talked to her branch and they were not as a minimal as my branch was initially. She said her husband's going to Germany. And they said, Well, we'll send you to Korea. I now not too far away, you know, we can't do that. So I talked to my brain. The nursing corps nurse branch was sending her in their army hospital. And so I talked to my branch for your face. Oh, no. So we got kind artillery units there. We'll get you. So they assigned me to the first Armored Division in. That was in a Nuremberg area. So I turned out to be very you know, we lived in we were so my artillery unit was in the village of Zeus Dorf, which is just a suburb of Nuremberg. And so we and the housing unit for the area was in Nuremberg. So. 

SPRAGUE: And what was the unit. 

KALETA: I was assigned to was the first the 22nd Field Artillery. 

SPRAGUE: And which company? 

KALETA: I was initially surprised because, you know, they had Vance course and they told us that we'd be lucky if we get a one battery command. And so they were really focusing us. So my intent thought we'd be an IBM fire support coordinator working with a armor infantry unit at the battalion level. And but when I got to Germany, my sponsor says, Oh, Alex, you're going to be taking over b b battery. And I said, I was surprised because even when I was corresponding B, they were going to make up a fire support coordinator, you know. So I surprised to get a firing battery when I was a new officer. But things change in the Army and people move. And my predecessor was picked up b the h h b commander for the first Armored Division. So he had he had to leave unexpectedly. And I was just coming at the right time to take over Bravo Battery. 

SPRAGUE: And this battalion, the first of the 22nd field artillery, was organic to first. 

KALETA: It was organic to the to it was one of the support battalions to the first Armored Division we had with the other with the first Armored Division. Again, we had three direct support battalions and we used M1O9 Alpha one. It wasn't there one by five self-propelled artillery. And then we had an eight inch general support artillery for some 94th, but we were a direct support. I can't recall what brigade we supported. I think. We supported the second Brigade of the first Armored Division because, again, they this were again, the division concept. It's changed slightly, of course, during Desert Storm and then the Iraq and Afghanistan war. But we're the army was working division, organized primary three brigades. And then the very direct support family supported each brigade and then again general support for. 

SPRAGUE: And this Italian as one of the direct support. 

KALETA: One a direct support. And so I had and they had three firing batteries, a headquarters battery and a service battery. It's like the first set, but again, it's slightly different. Mm hmm. Different howitzers, for sure. 

SPRAGUE: How are they different? 

KALETA: Well, we had self-propelled and, of course, self-propelled. So we were in our mobile. We we were people. And so my kids were eventually no different for the Howitzer attack because based on how the there's their structure. But so we are. So I was pleased to get a firing battery. And wouldn't you know it as soon as I took command in December, I arrived and we were arrived in Germany in November of 78, took command in December of 78, right before Christmas. And then we were participating in a January re forger in January of 79, 979. Boy, is this time flies for you having fun. But it was so I had to get the battery ready. I was responsible for getting a battery to move out to re forger and it was a wintery forger. And they normally have him in this fall or summer or fall. But this was a winter re forger and it was it was interesting to say the least. And it was we so we moved out for exercise area. And the what surprising was because because we were in Germany when I was stationed stateside, you could move out. You do a lot of training in field training. You know, that was just you just get permission and you move out from garrison to the field with Germany is a little more complicated. You can fire do go to the firing range quickly. You had scheduled iterations at RAF in which your firing air or we could actually fire our howitzers so that the track fields calls and that get as much movement as a track field goal would if you were at Fort Hood or one of the states where there's bases here in the United States that had had armor units, you could gather for all the time that we wrote with a little Red hood. They did a lot training on the field. But but we in Germany, you you had to because you're in a foreign country and the people in Nuremberg, you don't want people running through the howitzers, running through the city, you know, not not not cool. So so we had when we moved out, we had a lot of maintenance problems. 

SPRAGUE: From not moving. 

KALETA: Not moving the track so seals would pop. And it was difficult, but it was interesting size. 

SPRAGUE: And what if you could, in the most general sense of you're in direct support of the first Armored, maybe second Brigade. What was the thought on what the first Armored Division would do if the balloon went up. 

KALETA: While we had that effect? Depending how soon we got notification, we initially had firing positions that we relayed a second along the Czech border because we were in Bavaria, we were part of the seven Corps, which was we'd be facing we wouldn't be facing East Germans. We probably be facing probably the other Soviet bloc nations or the closer facing Czechoslovakia as they came across. So we had a couple of I had a firing battery position, couple of clicks from the the the Czech border. 

SPRAGUE: And from there at the division level down to at the battery level. Were there any particular tactics or that you could share or movement tactics that you had as a battery? 

KALETA: Well, because, you know, the the way we were situated in in Europe at that time, you know, the the US had we had fifth and seventh caught in the south south in Germany. The French had a sector I know, I think the French had a sector, the British army, the Rhine had a sector and the Germans had to have sectors of the border. So we were defending we had a multi net national. Support to defend Western Europe in primary along and east, because Western Germany with the Soviet bloc, had to go through West Germany to hit the rest of Europe. And we were we were the stop gap and there was other units would be coming to reinforce us. But we were there to try to delay the Soviet forces, and the Soviet forces were quite formidable. They so our job was to stop, to stop them as far as far to the east as possible. And one of my concerns was, even though I had a firing battery positioned close to the Czech border, depending on what the tactical situation was, I had to make sure I had position fallback positions going back. And our my biggest my biggest concern as a firing battery commander was counter battery fire. I had to make sure I was. That when I fire, we had a fire mission. I didn't stay too long or too long in an area, so I would be targeted by Soviet artillery. And my the concept was primarily to see if we could fire by platoons. You know, at that time we had six gun batteries, but we could divide them into three. Two sections, three batteries, three guns apiece. And so my thought was I would rotate howitzers back, fire three, move one and fire the other one and move again. So So we wouldn't be targeted by the by Soviet artillery. That was my biggest fear. And looking back and going from the check, you know, if we did Occupy. It all depend on how soon we got notifications that war was was pending. If we if it became middle of that we fought moving or we'd be moving out as we could to the to the to the east. But if we had if we were able to preposition that, we would we had pre-positioned sites that we could go from. 

SPRAGUE: Did they ever have a you carry tactical nukes or. 

KALETA: Carry. No, no. I think that that's I think I but but no, I mean because it's just the nature of the 155 we have eight inch. We are we we had the capabilities we know we were primarily. At least initially, we would not carry our. 

SPRAGUE: You know. 

KALETA: Carrying any classified high explosives. 

SPRAGUE: At this point. Were you still doing longhand calculations for your firing solution? 

KALETA: Oh, yes. We for the most part, we had charts and charts, as we would call it, but we had slight R and I was trying to look forward. We had a graphical firing table, which a a modified, I would guess definitely. Slide rule that we would use and a GST graphical site table that we would use and we could also use. We had artillery, we had a book so we could use tabular firing tables, but we primarily use the slide rules and. And we plotting boards and we did have feedback, but feedback is was generally, gosh, probably first generation computer. And it wasn't always as quick and as reliable as using the. 

SPRAGUE: FTC And how do you spell the acronym feedback field? 

KALETA: R f, a d, a c f a deck fire artillery directional. I know I do look like a get back here. What was that for? But it's feedback and it was you need a generator operate it and and you sat down and you and we learned how to do it and we could do it adjust that was usually more reliable to to use and quicker to use. The recall because you had a a chart and you got a range deflection protractor, Did you spot your battery position, you know, where the fire was at and you would plot the target because you needed that. That those three coordinates that triangulate your target to get and then you'd apply. And remember, I was in charge of a met section. You apply met that if you had it to make sure because you're you're firing a with A155 with a shell that weighs about 100 pounds and going through the atmosphere and whether it will affect it and you want it, what you're trying to achieve is first run as close as you can. The first round hit and a lot depends on target location and then the other of factors like weather. And another thing called net velocity era we'd calculate. For that as well. But we did all these calculations in your manual. You didn't Mathematic here. You hit the B. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Did you have any while you were with in command of that company? Did you have any incidents while you were there or things happened that were out. 

KALETA: Of a nature? No, nothing. That was. That. You know, we we had a lurch. You know, we all in fact, we had my son all the son was was born in in December of 79. And at his baptism in January 79th, I got we got went on alert and his baptism was was scheduled for the chapel and where we were located and reserved or. And so the guests came but they stacked our M-16 rifles and outside the chapel doors so we could do the baptism. And then we moved out the next day. So. So it was it was. But the kids things were what I was there during the the Irene crisis. Irene hostage crisis. And so we were on alert for that. See what if there's things with what happening because that was the big thing. And and the concern was primarily from the terrorist organizations even that the bite or mind half gang which was a terrorist organization working in in in Germany and the airport guards were you know, we didn't have the bridges were covered by aircraft like in aircraft carriers like in Korea. But the airports were patrolled with by officers carrying Uzis. And because they were concerned about if this was even in the late 70s, early 80s, were concerned about of a terrorist organization or by the Romanoff gang was we had posters with their names on it. And but no, there was no crisis that I'm aware of. Other in fact, we were just getting ready in case we they were still not really, because. When was that? President Carter was president and then Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980. So we were all and things were changing at that time. Oh. But there was no no, as far as I gather, the the Iranian hostage crisis was the big thing that during that tour. 

SPRAGUE: That that's interesting, that the Iranian hostage crisis affected your operations in Germany. 

KALETA: Oh, yeah. I guess you were just wasn't sure what was going to happen. That was just that. And so and and we used to laugh at it because he said we had to figure out an escape route for your family. And I think we live on the second floor. How might we get them out? I can't get through only one. There's one exit. And then we had the window. Well, how about the latter? Oh, gosh, that. Sure. But. But we were, in fact, my first alert when I was in Germany. Did you have a sponsor when you get there? And my wife, we both had we were both active duty. So my sponsor picked me up at the airport and in Frankfurt picked us up and both up. And then we went to his house and her sponsor, because they were single, a family just moved their quarters. His her sponsor picked us up and we stayed with them. They lived on a you know, they lived in quarters and in in another area, that area, our initial initially we lived on in the economy in Germany and then later on got quarters in Nuremberg. But my first alert I went there was a usury alert, so everybody was on alert. It wasn't just a local or so I spent it in the, I think, newborn nursery. Yes, believe it or not, because my wife had to report to. And I was. Yeah, just wait for my sponsor to pick me up. But he had his own things to do. So is this. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So there's an article that it looked like you wrote a while back about where you were. There's a border incident. We were flying near the Iron Curtain. 

KALETA: Yes. One of my neighbor who lived in Economy and he was assigned to one of the aircraft unit for the first A.D. And I was I, I that time I was a site commander. I was in a bind, but I still was the first A.D. okay? I was belonged to the I was a site commander site. 

SPRAGUE: 23. 

KALETA: Say 23. And we were ammunition and special ammunitions and we we or a special unit. And I was commander of that site and my neighbor was always a 58 pilot and I forgot what unit but he was part of the first 80. And our job with the first A.D., we always would patrol the. And we had segments of the take to patrol the the border. And they did aircraft patrol. And so he invited me up over Easter weekend to go up on if you wanted to fly to border. He had to fly that weekend. I said, sure, I'll do that, you know. So it was Saturday. We were up Saturday, early Saturday morning. And I went I was in the back seat with the 58 scouting helicopter. The 58. And it was pilot and copilot. And I was the back street observer. And we're chatting along and all of a sudden we got very serious for the pilot and copilot. And I thought, oh. And so we had to do a forced landing because I had mechanical problems. And so we luckily we made a safe landing. And and they call for maintenance support. And they came up and I forgot what the issue was. But they came, maintenance came, corrected the problem, and we resumed our patrol because we had a sector of the Border Patrol to make sure that that that we were. That you know that there's nothing suspicious happening on the other side of the border. We were not going to be caught left empty handed, so to speak. So so we resumed our patrol. And one of the of a funny incident that occurred during the remainder of the patrol, I'm in the back seat as warm and the helicopter you're moving on and the border is not straight. It's you know, you're winding around and all of a sudden they said, oh my gosh, we ventured into East the Eastern Zone. And I look over, they saw I was dozing off. I looked and there was this guard tower. And I said, oh, and we're circling this guard tower. And I said, Holy Alito. Who's going to kill me first, my boss or my wife? I'm not sure who I got. I get more afraid of that type. I'm more concerned with it at time. And then they start laughing. Because if you recall several years earlier, Walt Disney did a film on a family that escaped from East Germany to West Germany, and they built a replica tower on our side of the border. And that's what we were. It was near the border, but it was and we had an across the border that they just had a chuckle on me. But I was like, oh, I was How am I going to do that? I'm not it wasn't part of my job and I'd be interned in East Germany. Oh, that's going to be terrible. 

SPRAGUE: So at some point you go from being the Bravo battery commander to it looks like you said you moved to HP. 

KALETA: Yes. Again, you know, the army. Makes switches. And if they move people and the by then I was a senior captain, I was I had been in the command of the HP before and 101st I commanded Bravo Battery and the HP Command at that time. Different structure. I think when I was a HP commander at 101st, I commanded about 100 men. Let me be around 100 because the way though, is structured. When I was the HP commit was HP for the first Armored Division for the for the battalion, we had close to 200 men because we all the way I was organized and how much structure it was structured way different than the HP with 101st was. So the HP commander got selected to go to run be the post commander at Graff and your be to run the range at RAF Rapid Veer, which was a firing range for all primary firing range for for all U.S. forces and tanks and artillery would go there. And it was a former German firing ranges big complex. And so he got was the evolved I don't think he volunteered. It was what he say bless you my son You're going to you don't realize it, but you're going to be the graph and you're commander you know, the range commander Range control. And so we got tapped for that. And so they had no other replacement. So rather than putting and one of the first lieutenants was scheduled to leave a senior going to advance advanced course. So he was due to be become captain and be my captain. And so he was given the option. And they the battalion didn't want a junior commander to command HP. They wanted wanted. So they moved me from firing battery to h h, B and H and moved him that he took over the firing battery and know good Bob no later. Retired thing is a full colonel. He's a great guy, but he took over over the Bravo battery and they took over headquarters battery. 

SPRAGUE: And so this would be your second command of an HP. 

KALETA: Second command of a different. 

SPRAGUE: Sized. 

KALETA: H given the exact levers. So I was able I was surprised. I had a commanding three, three, three artillery batteries, and then I had a fourth with a command with the site. So I was just, you know, I couldn't learn my job, right? Or if I did something right, I'm not sure. And if I was, it was because my NCO was again, because I had great NCO. Both at the firing battle. I mean, he's the first sergeant. I had first sergeant. He was a CFC sergeant first class, and he was the first sergeant. He was just great. Sergeant Carter. And then I had to fire a battery command sergeant. Yeah. Chief on firing battery and chief of smoke. They just. They could help that. I was just great. And I technically. And I had great lieutenants, so I was just. I was just fortunate to. 

SPRAGUE: So this h h b what what subordinate platoons that it have within it. 

KALETA: Or what swallowed it was that the big difference between four was all the the army when one transferred to the fist concept. So we had fire support teams that supported the inventory companies in battalions and we had battalion fire support containers for the the armor and, and. Infantry units. And then we had the brigade fire aboard. But all that belonged all those soldiers belong that belong to h h b h h b, but the battalion h h b so they're all belong to me. But when we deployed for war, they all went different places. So. But I was responsible for them, especially in garrison. And then make sure they were they got assigned and with the. So I then addition I had the cash, but also I had the headquarters staff, all the people who were assigned as one, as two as three. I had cooks and I had, of course, I had camel and I some maintenance folks. 

SPRAGUE: So I have to ask, what was that like in particular, having the the staff officers and probably the battalion commander in your company? 

KALETA: Oh, it was always interesting. I mean it because I had experience with having the the battalion commander and the other one. But I. But see, I was responsible there for their welfare. So I had to make sure that that when we went out there, that now it was the F was up to the task. Of course it was different between 101st and first Armored Division because we had tracks in 108 with the first Armored Division where the first was primarily tents, you know, So it was a little different set up and how we. But we started the VRC 46 series radios to contend with. And again, Carmel platoon and the gosh. And my ex oh, I think it was a camel lieutenant. It was a camel platoon leader for h h b he was super. I mean, I, I talk very highly of the is. I've had great experience with signal corps officers. They guys they do a good job and we'll be safe because they're technically competent but they're they're great officers too so. 

SPRAGUE: So you move on from h h b to this. 

KALETA: Yeah. And then unfortunately, I was h h b commander. And again, as the, as the army changes thing, the every division had a ammunition storage area they're responsible for and both for classified us high explosives and for conventional high explosives. And they need someone to you of for the artillery unit. That's what we we need they want an artillery commander there. But we also. So the current commander of it was Nate identified NATO's sites that were called natal sites. Why I do not know but Natal to three was in our area and we had ammunition for both the first our first Armored Division artillery units and the two 12th field artillery group. I think that's the right designations. So we had again, the artillery groups also supported the Corps four and seven Corps. So they were as. I had two tenant primary tenant units that I was that we stored the ammunition for. And what would happen if we even when I was the battery commander with the first Armored Division, we would rotate for the division. The batteries assigned to the different battalions would rotate as the reaction force for the site. So as a battery commander, I went to I was we had that we were stationed for a four week period that was part of our our duties was to act as a reaction force. And we would patrol the area. We were the 30 minute response group that we had to be able to help because access the ammunition site. You had an MP platoon on site all the time. And so for security reasons, we had to have a And the infantry. Yeah. Yeah. Other things to do if they, they were to they were then to our response force, they would come, they had a response time of two hours. So they would come from different parts of Germany for that. But we had to have a group of a 30 man support group within 30 minutes. So that was. 

SPRAGUE: Now, if you were with a. Mechanized field artillery battalion and you have 30 minutes to respond, what are you coming to the show with here? Oh, we. 

KALETA: Were primarily we were acting as an infantry unit so that we were on site because it's a bit complex. Okay, so we're housed, but we're supposed to get active. We are supposed to if the main site was under attack, the initial thought was the MPC wouldn't provide the initial defense. And then they within 30 minutes, we had they had to react to the be on site to help support the defense of the site within 30 minutes. Okay. And then and then we had that because of the importance. You know, ammunition is very and we were concerned about terrorists and and primarily terrorists, I think, at that time, because if the balloon went up every all the you tenant, you would come get ammunition and go out. Our concern, of course, was would be if there was a terrorist group or probably air attack would be more. 

SPRAGUE: Did you have a like a this is a stupid question to ask, but like a shoot to kill order if people in the crowd. 

KALETA: Yeah, we had the right not the right, but we had the right we our employees. And if you were a part of our security force, you need the right to use deadly force was authorized. So our patrols were armed because it and we would have people wander through the woods because we were out in the woods. And it wasn't clearly my if you were driving over here, you'll see you'll see the the the site, the bunkers, you know, something's there. But we wouldn't have patrols. That's what the artillery batteries, which they would occupy as Rebecca before they would run periodic patrols around the area just to make sure there was nothing. And then, of course, we had the MPC that were on site. 

SPRAGUE: And was at NATO's site 23 or not. NATO's like two, three. 

KALETA: Two, three. It depends on and who you said our killer. We always said 2 or 3 every hour says 23 soldiers. 

SPRAGUE: And was the you said it supported first Armored in this 20 212th Field artillery group. Yeah. Who'd that? NATO's site commander. Which I'm assuming you were. 

KALETA: I was, yeah. 

SPRAGUE: Who do you report to? 

KALETA: The first Armored Division commander. Okay. And I reported that. Really? The first Armored Cavalry commander. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. 

KALETA: Yeah. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. Gotcha. 

KALETA: Yeah. Now, even though we were first, we belonged to first Armored Division, but the command and control, I didn't. I didn't report directly to the division commander. I reported the Nevada command because we were primarily in artillery. We were holding the ammunition for the all division artillery. 

SPRAGUE: So did you notice any chemical contamination at the site while you were there or anything? 

KALETA: No, we had a lot of rumors. Yeah, because. Yeah, we we had an incident or that incident, but we did training with a chemical company. And so rumors spread when I had people at the site that were all dressed in white sand masks and that there was an accident at the site. And and it was just training. But because we were trained, we had a request from the chemical company Division Chemical to do. Training onsite and it was a great opportunity. We to do training onsite. So we did it. But not everybody knew what was going on. So rumors spread like wildfire. You know, that you know that it was contamination and or no contamination. It was just a training exercise. It just. But they saw people in white suits and masks and. 

SPRAGUE: They felt one thing was another. Yes. 

KALETA: And just. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. 

KALETA: That that was. 

SPRAGUE: So in a general sense. And this is really the conjecture. What do you think What do you what what is your supposition of what would have occurred if the balloon had gone up in West Germany? And I know that's a big question. 

KALETA: That's a big I well, I don't think we could have held them on the border to begin with. A lot of depends on how soon we were alerted because I was subcontracting in an assignment. I was more appraised of the war plan as I was at that time as a as a battery commander at that time. And I just knew I was concerned about my battery and to keep them alive. That was my my main concern, to do our mission, to keep and keep people alive and and get bad people back in the US. So we had a shot to make the shot to make it. Later on I was I was more apprized of the tactical situation and the strategic location of our mission, etc.. But yeah, I it a lot depends on the, the armor units because we were supporting the armor units and then we had M60 tanks. They were the battle type main battle type at that time, which was pretty good, you know, but, but again, our concern was the numbers of the Soviet forces, you know, like Ukraine. I mean, they're all numbered 4 to 1. You know, I'm not sure you know, we hadn't we were lined up with the different nationalities and we were prepared because the Germans are didn't want the Russians that come across the border in. And we didn't want to. Yeah, we were we weren't going to go across to the Czech border or but we were concerned they would come across our border and. You know, speculation of what you know, whether we you we will help them. You know, it's hard to say. Yeah, I'm glad we never had to find out. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. In around 1981, did you start to have noticed the transition? Did you transition from a salad olive greens to be used to? That process began. 

KALETA: And I'm sure again, for the. 

SPRAGUE: The the battle dress uniform. 

KALETA: Oh, yes. Oh, gosh, yes. Are we we were we when we went to Germany initially we wore army green fatigues. That's what we wore the army wore during Vietnam. And now some are more jungle fatigue. But Georgia were a green color. They weren't in 19 oh gosh, I probably is 80, 81 time frame. We went they went to battle dress uniforms and we used to joke, we have why we have one of our inspectors came in. We inspect it all the time at the site by somebody always for every get everybody's inspects everything. And we were kidding on the NCO. They look like a treat and we couldn't see them because these all it'd be to use, you know. But that was that I forgot that we did the BD. We transitioned to be user in that time frame and it, it was Oh, so we ended up getting BD It was that was it. I guess it. And because if you recall, you may not remember, but in the Army during Vietnam, in garrison we were starched fatigues and then they allowed us to have wash and wear fatigues, which was great. And then but would be a sort of wash and wherever. So we looked halfway decent. But I remember the big thing when I first came in, I was breaking starch and we would actually get you to set to the the laundry facilities on post and you actually broke starch, getting your foot inside your your trousers. And if you if you had the experience or not. 

SPRAGUE: But with potatoes with BD, you. 

KALETA: Would. 

SPRAGUE: And yes, they. 

KALETA: Started they did this because. BD when it came up, therefore no low wash. But then we get Gerald's got concerned that we didn't look. Soldier, you know the Irish. Yes. In fact, I got in trouble with my wife because I was ironing. She was eyeing my BD use, and I got made a stupid mistake of saying, Gee, I could do it better. And she said, Sure. So ever since I own my own body, I did iron the beads. 

SPRAGUE: So 81st December of 81, you wrap up your. 

KALETA: Tour and I December of 81, I got I got orders to go to. I felt I was going back to 101st. Okay. I got orders to go back to 101st. But I was the army trade your specialty and my. And you pick your specialty. Sometime when you're a captain, you go or you get assigned, especially at a secondary specialty. And my secondary special especially, was chemistry with Chemical Corps. And because I was a science major at a in my undergrad degree. And so I was so I had orders to go to Fort McClellan for school and then on to Fort Campbell. 

SPRAGUE: And tell me about in looks like 82. Is that does that is that secondary specialty? Does that make you a chemical officer or. 

KALETA: Does I was qualified be a chemical to serve as a chemical officer? Okay. What we did with that, they called it an aspect you know your average go to abbreviations add a spec, add SPC additional specialty. It was our it does so we had so I was technically qualified as a 74 chemical officer and I could be serve as a chemical officer and I subsequently did for a unit. So we were training. And what we basically did, we went through the technical portion of this Chemical Corps advanced course. So we went through and we went through radiation safety, which was excellent course. Excellent. Of course, the chemical and then decontamination. And we work with live agents, too. So we did the technical report because and then we are and there was a number of us from different infantry, artillery, M.P. that were given that special treat was site for that course. Everybody, I think 15 members that were in that and we just tacked on to that portion of the advanced course. And then we finished that portion and they went through a tactical portion that they went through. But since we were already trained in our ammunitions, we only had to go through that portion. 

SPRAGUE: So a dumb question. When you were in that that position, did you did you still wear the cross canons or did you wear chemical corps interests? 

KALETA: I wore cross guardianship. 

SPRAGUE: At. 

KALETA: That time because I was going to school, but I wasn't assigned to a chemical unit. So it was even though I was and we were we were artillery and I rode my cartel Red Cross cannons and amps for their M.P. brass and their cross rifles. I cross pistols and etc.. And we had infantry officers do that for luckily assigned to go off for whatever reason. 

SPRAGUE: And what I mean, I have to ask, I mean, they're in some in some cases there's this mindset of being combat arms versus being combat service support. And, you know, that's all. Yes. Or whatever. Tell me. 

KALETA: Oh, gosh, yeah, that is true. I mean, there's a hierarchy, you know, just, you know, even in combat arms, if you're, you know, even in my artillery, because I was the headquarters, you better command my troops or, you know, they weren't cannon ears. I, you know, they were we are part of the action trash. You know, we we did the cleanup duties. You know, we were essential. But we're we're we're a bad guy. We were lower on a totem pole. And same thing when you were in between combat arms and combat service support and combat support, You know, your you were there was that. And unfortunately, unless you served in these other units, you didn't realize how hot, how unfair that characterization was because we were all soldiers. And I mean, I, I could later on, I was with a support battalion. And they they were just as sharp as as. Infantry troops, you know, and artillery troops were. But and they served they were sometimes deployed more frequently than than the artillery. And the infantry units were the combat arms units because of of their mission of support, because whenever the infantry went out or the artillery went out or the tanks went out, they had to get a support element out there. And that was. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So 82 to 83, it looks like you went to command a general staff. 

KALETA: Yeah, I guess. And that's what I have. I was, I was. On leave before I went to report I think the Campbell decision at my. Home or my wife's parents home in Detroit. And I called branches to see what you know. I think my on on tack. And they said, we've been trying to get a hold of you. Your orders are changed. And I got luckily got picked up for Command General Staff College. And so they said, you are no longer going to Fort Campbell. You're still going to McClellan. But for a good follow on time, it will be at Leavenworth. So I got switched from going to Campbell to go into the command and manage General Staff College. So I was went through the chemical events course. You know, the adjutant course at McClellan finished that course. And for a couple of months, a couple about a month or so I was the stayed on on post doing. I was working with a tactical group there for for a while. But is really I was that what he said get ready for the Leavenworth. So I was studying I was really studying English I to English primer book. The one of the things you have to take is an English test at a at a staff general college. You know, you've got to make you know, you're doing a grammar test and write make sure your writing abilities are correct. And so I was doing a refresher course in English, you know. 

SPRAGUE: So at that point, you were either a major or about to be. 

KALETA: I was a captain promotable at that time. I got picked up. And before I left Germany, I got to get picked up. I got promoted. All right. I was picked on the list to make major, so I was. Selected. So I was a captain as a what they could call it. So. 

SPRAGUE: Right. 

KALETA: And so I went to Leavenworth. Then, of course, I keep. That's a lock a prison because. Yeah. Position. I was there for a little short course not the law. 

SPRAGUE: Enforcement the long course. What happened after attending Command and General Staff College. 

KALETA: What happened there? 

SPRAGUE: Was we after your complete. 

KALETA: I guess it was an interesting court. I. Believe or not, my claim to fame there was one of my classmates was General Petraeus. 

SPRAGUE: Oh, really? 

KALETA: Yeah. Yeah. No, I didn't know him because we had different sections. But he was, of course, number one, our class at Leavenworth. So our friends. Right. We always complain that we held them up because we were behind like we had to. It wasn't for us. He wouldn't have been number one. So so that was our our private joke. But Leavenworth was great training for of course it was. It just it was good training. I enjoyed. And right or wrong, they were in one section for the first six months because we started class, I think, in July, and then we broke for Christmas and we were assigned to one section. But when we came back from Christmas break, we signed to a different section there, I think 26 class sections, and there's probably probably 100 or so in each section. I read large class, I can I should remember the the numbers. And we did our training because you had different segments. Of course, every took offensive tactics, defensive tactics. And then we had commanders about logistics and various courses. And the biggest thing was learning to write an operation order, because that's what you did as a staff officer, was write to different elements of an operation order, because that's how the army runs on our borders. And and so you had and I and it was interesting because you had to do a offensive border to graduate to finish the the offensive portion and also write an op order for the defensive portion. And I had some brilliant classmates and they failed the exam. And to retake it because they got too complicated and because you only had two hours, but they gave us two hours right thing. So you had to analyze the terrain and and write the op order within this period time and their day and week. Fact one was scheduled to be an instructor followed because he's just brilliant you know, but he was too brilliant and wasn't able to complete but you get the order done in that timeframe. That was the criteria. So he hit it and it was a he was embarrassed about it and but he felt it because he would be an instructor at GSC and but he just didn't get done in time. 

SPRAGUE: Wow. So it's interesting. So when you graduated from command and general staff. You went on to Fort Hood? 

KALETA: Fort Hood? Yes. I had asked for Campbell because I wanted to. I wanted to go back to 101st. And the Army and wisdom says, no, no, you don't want to go to Fort Hood and you want to go for camp. You want to go to Fort Hood, but I don't want to go for it. But they they the need was there. And so I was assigned and I was assigned as a chemical officer to 13 support Command. So I wasn't even assigned to the unit when I first got there. So I was the theoretically I was I think I had a different title, but I was actually the chemical officer for 13 Support Command. 13 Support Command was the Logistics command supporting 33rd Corps to Third Corps was located at Fort Hood headquarters. And so they were and had an 13 support command, had a transportation battalion. They had a maintenance battalion. They had got together all the support corps in a supply battalion that would that would their job was to support. They are the active the units of the third Corps and the third Corps. That time on on base was the of the third or the second Armored Division and first Cav division. And those were two division assignments as a unit assigned at at Fort Hood. And then they had an aviation command. And then they also had their also third cohorts responsible for divisions in other locations, the United States. The fourth ID at Fort Carson, the fifth I'd at Fort Polk. And I think that was the other divisions they were responsible for. Because then you had 18 Airborne Corps. Did you have three Corps headquarters, United States. And at that time, you had the third Corps that was housed out of Fort Hood. You had 18 Airborne Corps at Fort Bragg, and you had Air Corps First Corps out of Fort Lewis. And they the other divisions, United States, were attached to those cores for command and control when if war went out, they probably signed a different area. But that for command and control in the states, they were combined. So we were third Corps was responsible for other divisions. And besides that, to that end, the Air Cav Brigade that was that was assigned to support third Corps. 

SPRAGUE: So what what does a typical day look like for a chemical officer of a. 

KALETA: We were responsible chemical caught? Well, it was interesting because I was again, it wasn't my primary Mos and so I was assigned as and right away they told me you're going to run the we had a chemical battalion also say the special to 13 support command. Of course you would. And they were consisting of a deacon unit and as a smoke unit running smoke generators. And so they thought you were going to give them an hour to the battalion. I said, Oh, okay. So one of my first duties was to try to to get an hour tip. I worked with the battalion headquarters to give to separate, to do the gift that accompanies a eight hour tap. So I worked with, yes, three of the chemical battalion, two devices that are kept for the the deacon company and the small company because they had the 46 chem battalion company, which was smoke and I forgot the number of the decon unit. But their responsibility, of course, was the deacon units and to provide smoke coverage for. And sure you knew that but but the course had you know this motion generating was the camouflage used for some of the covert operations here, heavily used or used also during World War Two. So that was what the assets for chemical assets were. So what I got there, that was my job. I was assigned to my I was part of the the S three shop, 413 support command. They call it the Spo offer cards, secure security plans and operation was the spo and they were really the the G three RG three Section four, the 13 support command 13 support command like a devotee would not during nor during war time would be commanded by a brigadier general. But during peacetime we had a full colonel. That was in spot. And you had the colonels, colonels, as was. With the G three and the colonels were because it was because it was a G level staff. You were asking me, ma'am, across can I get you are my cross canons or I can wear my I had there were general. General staff. On my fatigues. Oh and so I did it were chemical for bio as we are part of the general staff for the 13 support command. And it was, you know, it was an eye opener. I was even though I luckily at Leavenworth, I knew what the sport command did at least from from classes. But it was I was now actually involved in how they did. Updated quite a bit. They're deployed quite a bit. There are units. There's battalion units. 

SPRAGUE: What. Yeah. Did the. Yeah. In terms of the 13 support command, what operations were they involved with in that timeframe. 

KALETA: Oh well they were. We again, I got there in July and they were involved in an exercise in Europe and with the headquarter exercise and I end up going to Germany in, gosh, actually in November or something of that of that year to participate in an exercise because the Army was doing was in the process of developing the air land battle. After you heard that concept and how we were going to we were repositioning how we were fighting in Vietnam. And the big concept was air land battle. That was at Leavenworth. That was the big concept. And part of that for the. Support command was rear area protection wrap our AP. And so we were defining the concept for how we were going to plan wrap, and that was rear area protection because the camp, the concern was the support committees are behind the line divisions, of course, and and supporting them. But they were. Liable for insertion by Soviet forces and behind the lines. And they will always be able to have defensive. Of a tactical unit armor or infantry unit. So they had to defend themselves. So we developed tactics on how these quartermaster units, these transportation units. Could defend themselves. And so that was a we're actually forming new ground, try to develop concepts there. And that was a big portion. And chemical was part of the concern. And we would periodically have corps exercises along those lines and. To show that I think. Example I remember. Being a. Very poor part of my chemical section was part of our area of protection. So with the when we had exercises. We had to report on what the situation was very protection. And one of the sub elements was was chemical activity as there's chemical activity in the area. I remember one of the early exercises I was on. For that core exercise that we were on and we had to give the briefing to the sub commander and the transportation folks. You know, they gave her their report and then they asked me. I had to get really. Their reaction protection and where they actually was. And I said it was chemical strikes here, here and here. And the sub commander went to his logistics guy said, well, has that affect your movement of trial protection? It's right in your area or you're moving troops or moving supplies or anything. Boy, they got it all ever since then. Whenever before the morning briefing, I had the other sections come see me. Murder. Where were the chemical strikes over the night? Because I was usually because I was a major and I had a colonel I worked for. I was I was the night officer. Night tac officer. So that's when they had attack. So I had to free from war. And so they are very concerned now where the. Where the chemical strikes were because it affected. Logistical operations or where the rear activity work actually occurred because I was the rap off for at night to where that. So it is slightly the fact that we're again looking at tactics and they were looking we were trying to look as realistically as possible and these were map exercises for the most part, but it involved theoretical strikes. 

SPRAGUE: Rear area protection. 

KALETA: Rear area protection. That was in fact I think that was my title as a rear protection officers. I like that it wasn't specifically chemical you. That was my responsibility. And then we had the we worked at my chemical section really consisted of of two senior NCOs. And we were we would evaluate the training throughout the support command of the chemical training done by the different battalions all and then my predecessor all the idea of doing a chemical exercise a testing evaluation for decon and we the Grady everybody had to go for a second test, so to speak. So they go through to run their own particular decon because that was a concern. A chemical was a concern, and we had to make sure break in mop and you may reminder forgot and how many you do within a minute or so going into full mop gear. There was a very shorter and we actually even at the headquarters unit we practiced getting into mop gear the mop for because that was and we had to it was. And so with time so I mean, I've got to be pretty good at doing that. 

SPRAGUE: I would imagine. 

KALETA: But it was something, of course, that held that lead Fruits for Desert Storm because that was they did that in Desert Storm. And now that luckily didn't. I don't think they had to I'm not sure they had the actual chemical attack. Now, you know, they had to alert for that because I know that they did go to Mop four during Desert Storm. But that emphasis began in 83 when I was assigned to the 83 timeframe. The Army, which we were we were a third Corps as a support and we were planning we were functioning in mop gear, you know, so. 

SPRAGUE: Wow. 

KALETA: So. 

SPRAGUE: Any involvement with the operation Urgent Fury in Grenada for third quarter He yeah. 

KALETA: Yes and no. We I got involved in a follow on exercise because you're not it occurred in cash in 83 and we were working out an exercise that was similar to, you know, something happen there. But it occurred after urgent fury. After. After after or after or after the grenade operation. Because the grenade, if I recall, occur in 83, I think. Was it? 

SPRAGUE: Yeah, that sounds right. 

KALETA: Yeah. And then but we didn't do the operation in that. We are working at 284, but so I was involved in that but not, not nursing for a period good by then it was such a quick thing in December. That was December of No, no, that was, that was I forgot that 83 that I got or never Regas operation. That was 89. 

SPRAGUE: Panama. 

KALETA: Panama. Yeah. That was another that's another story. Yes. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. So anything else you want to tell us about working at 13 Support Command? Oh. 

KALETA: That was an interesting assignment. I was scheduled to be there three years and I wanted to see if I get an artillery assignment there. So I extended there. I requested an extension because normally it would be three years and you go someplace else. And because there's so and I knew that my next assignment would be in either in recruiting ROTC or reserve components. So I was trying to get myself into a artillery position. And because of two divisions there, I was able to get assigned. I first talked to second aide and they would take me. But it was just the timing wasn't right. So I transferred into first Cav Division and I was assigned to the S-3 shop as the first captive already, and I was an assistant at three there. Unfortunately, only there for six months. Depends how you are. Fortunately or unfortunately, as the case may be, because you never you never know. I was hoping to stay at the first Cav for a little longer, but because of the of. Drones, believe it or not, I was switched to g three and third quarter because. 

SPRAGUE: I was 86. 

KALETA: And it says an 85, 8686. We were in 86 and because I left 13 support command in January of 86 and reported as the first cab in February. Of 86. At the first cab we were attached to to test the r p v remotely program or remotely piloted vehicle, which which the Army's first attempt one the first really attempts at drones. It was you can be used for artillery spotting, etc. And so the first cab devotee was assigned to do. To support that operation. And why was with the first Cav division? It was one of the things that we we said we need we need support from and it needs to be a core operation. So as it's three at the at the. And it was my own fault because I was assistant S three and they were looking for an S four and I didn't want to be the S four. So consequently consequently they had the auto to take one of their staff officer to go to the G three because something was moving from their switching options role. So because I. That my own estimation because I didn't volunteer to be the S four. I was one of the I was on the I moved to G3A3 core which was and so what had happened what happened to even though I was we were at RAF three and three supporting the. We're just starting the r p v test. When I was at first Cav, I end up working as the project officer from third Corps on the r, p, v and the r.P. Oh, I was a liaison for that with o. T is the operational test evaluation agency for the army and they are running the r p v test at Fort Hood. And initially I was at. I attended the initial briefings, gosh, in probably June of of 86 as Assistant S three already. And then in August of something when I got tried for the G three, I became the you the third Corps liaison for the operation test. So I was involved in the r p v test and that was my. One of my responsibilities in G three. So I had a short time with First Cab. I enjoyed being first Cab. I really participated in a couple of exercises with the first Cav. The r p v was the the primary thing. And then I end up moving into the into corps headquarters for the and Corps headquarters is vast. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. What were there more was the r p v test or liaison enough or were there other taskings that you had to. 

KALETA: Oh, when I was, when I was assigned to G Thrive was. A part of G three at three Corps. It's a very massive organization. And I worked in in plans and operation and my title. And I guess if three core G three was an operations officer. And so I was gosh, I was responsible for tasking running the tasking section and testing because we were running various tests. And I got involved when I was in the G. Besides overseeing, I believe I have another major that actually was a tasking officer, but I was directly responsible for him and I had a colonel over me and then he had a colonel over him. So we had we had all kind of. Officers in charge. But I was also involved in the testing of the Can be project, which was a combined arms maneuver battalion. And it was a concept which I think they probably used in Iraq, where they used, well, maybe not, maybe Desert Storm because they were combining. We always had combined arms training for the for the army. It was were maneuver with tanks. And this can be battalion. They're looking at it for me where you'd have maybe two infantry companies and two armor companies working as the same battalion because normally your task for you, you had a task force or that where you combine and an armor company with a infantry company for a task force and they they would combine to do that. But you're looking at a concept where this battalion would consist of two armor and maybe two infantry. And that's we're looking at that concept. 

SPRAGUE: And that's called can be. 

KALETA: Can be C, A and B. 

SPRAGUE: Combined arms. 

KALETA: Maneuver battalion. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. 

KALETA: Because normally they would task organize for different operations, but this would be battalion. And again, I don't know because that would occur when I was at at Fort Hood and G three because I was it in the G three after it is ops from August of 86 to August of 87 two. And so it was and I you know, again I said reluctantly but being assigned to. Both 13 support command and assigned to G3I got a I received a greater appreciation of how the Army works. And so even as a lowly major, I was able to because I was able to, to realize the complexity of going to war. It's not. And we have emphasis, of course, rightfully so, goes to the combat arms for the or for the what they have to do. But to get that support, to get get that and all of the things that are involved in it, it's just massive. I'm just, you know, I, I think I have a better appreciation as a. Through my experience with even though I really wasn't one of the be a staff officer, I was rather be with troops. 

SPRAGUE: It was yeah, yeah. 

KALETA: Yeah. So it was it was interesting. And why was there a course Third Corps was getting ready to go back to they were going to be deployed for resources going back to Germany. So I got in before I left. I was involved in a little bit because we were replying to that what are my claims to fame people? You know, and I could talk about names. Tommy Franks was the one of the colonels in G three, so and I knew I knew, of course, Tommy was also with First Armored Division for a while. Oh, no, he's with the second ACR. When I was in Germany, he was a tour artillery battery commander. When or only you said something. Give it to a second ACR. 

SPRAGUE: Uh, Tommy Franks was my division commander. 

KALETA: He was your division commander. Division. 

SPRAGUE: Second Infantry Division. Korea. 

KALETA: Korea. Yeah. Yeah. Tommy, was I again? I don't know too. I knew knew him because I was in G three and he was in G three. He was in. I was an upset. He was and more in plans. And it was because he had all because G three and in third Corps we had a Colonel Walker as the G three but he had full board of colonels in charge of different sections that we had more because my boss was a colonel, his boss or a colonel Joe Davy Jones. He and and Tommy Franks. Or we're equals. But. A different section segments of the G three. And it was they were always the it was interesting they were interesting individuals. They were but Tommy was a I think more laid back than daily. But but they're both I can tell you stories they were they were they were good guys. I have to ask you later, Dave, about your. 

SPRAGUE: Tommy Franks. 

KALETA: Tommy Franks. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Yeah. We'll talk about that off laugh line. Okay. Anything else with G three you want to share? 

KALETA: Oh, the G three was an interesting assignment. And one of the things that I realized that would help me in civilian life was I was responsible for the training calendar for third quarter. So I would have tracked units of where they were doing because I was task you officer, what they were doing. And one of the biggest things was the Apache was being. And so I would schedule aviation units that were assigned to Third Corps that belonged to the fourth Infantry with the. First Cav for their Apache training. So I'm more of my wish to maintain that calendar for the G three section of where these units were going through training and then help subsequently in my civilian job later on because I'd keep track of different course schedules. So but it was interesting because I was and they were joking because again, this tasking officer, I would say, okay, this particular 13 subcategory responsible for this, not me, but my NCOs did the task. But I had to sign the order and assigned the task order. So I was as the G three. So I was the least favored person. And in G three staff for the from the division standpoint, because I was a guy assigned to order for them for the G three. 

SPRAGUE: So how. Next you you went on to. 

KALETA: ROTC and I when I was assigned initially I was going to be I had a call for I was my A's completed my four years at Hood. I was due for reassignment. And I, I got a call in the branch or from branch. Okay. What do you want? Recruiting. And I said, I'd like to go ROTC, because at that time I had a feeling I'd probably be retiring in a couple of years. So I thought that would probably be the best thing for my family. And initially I was assigned to be assigned as an assistant professor of military science at University of Iowa. And then I got a call from Branch saying that would what I would like to go to Marquette University since my family's from Indiana and my wife, my family's from Michigan, it was closer. I would have been maybe a 20 hour drive. It was a 2.5 hour drive from Milwaukee to northern Indiana and a seven hour drive to Milton, Michigan, to Detroit. I'll take Marquette. So I have become going to become an ROTC instructor at Marquette. 

SPRAGUE: And that was in August of 87. 

KALETA: August of 87. And then I ended up having 20 years in August and January of 90. And I retired from the Army in January of 90 while I was at Marquette. I you know, the General Wagner was the ROTC because you had to go because again, after you I got out Marquette, I had to go to school at it in Virginia for two weeks for a cadet command to learn how to be an ROTC instructor. And it was really, again, a lot more recruiting than it was because there were trying to recruit. Folks for ROTC. 

SPRAGUE: What what was some of the mentorship that when you were instructing the cadets, what would what would you what were you trying to pass along to your service? 

KALETA: Yeah, you know, we were I initially I was I was responsible for the mass to the sophomore cadets. And during your sophomore training, they get skill training. They get map reading, first aid, rifle, elementary rifle, marksmanship. So my course was was teaching them military skills primarily with help of some of the NCOs there but primarily in and. But we're trying to instill in them they have responsibilities and and cultivate cultivating them responsibilities that you're as an officer you've got to be responsible for your people. The sense responsibility was the overall beside teaching them basic concepts of law. Leadership because like you went to ROTC, you were assigned it was a young cadet. You were a first fresh resident. You had responsibilities, primarily just as a soldier. Then when you became a sophomore, you may have been a different leader, some leadership responsibility. And then as a junior cadet, you were NCO responsibilities. And then as a upperclassman, your fourth year cadet, you were in more offshore positions. And so we had different responsibilities to to to guide these young cadets in different elements. And so that was it was a very, very rewarding. In fact, it's and I always felt, you know, because this was, again, prior 1990, this was before Desert Storm. So, I mean, it was just in fact, I was I had volunteered to go back on active duty in 91 because Desert Storm, it had kicked in. And even though I was I was out, I was in fact, I had a call from a buddy of mine from he was a fellow ROTC and three were assigned to the reserve components. He said, Alex, you want to be in the job he offered was the least, not the most desirable. He wanted me be a survivor, not a survivor, but casualty assistance officer to notify because they were concerned about it. But by the time that occurred, the war was over. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So let's let's jump back a little bit and then jump forward. So. What did you think when the Berlin Wall wall fell in 89? 

KALETA: It was just great. I mean, it was great because for the I was in the Army from 1970 to 1990, the initial focus I had in my initial training as a specialist in the first four years was Vietnam. I expected to be sent to Vietnam. It just as you know, in the Army, you don't you don't pick your assignments. It depends on the needs of the army. And it's just the way book, you know, they had it, you know, the blessing. My mother prayed I wouldn't go, said the name I got. I was sent to Korea. And at that time, Korea was a hostile area, but it wasn't Vietnam. But that the focus until I came back from Korea was we were fighting a insurgency operation or in Vietnam. But after that, even though we we were prepared, even in the fight, you know, we were talking about Europe, the focus was Vietnam. I think I still have I may have still maps of Vietnam that we were training on the two operations that I have textbooks on and our manuals on Vietnam, because that was our focus when I was in oh six, the attack on fire based Mariana occurred, and this was before we graduated. And so we were looking at fire beef, fire based protection. But but after that, when I got to the 101st, again, the focus was Europe. And. We were joking when you say that General Emerson had this brilliant idea. Here's a guy dropped 101st and 82nd behind the land and then the other Russian artillery. All the Russians would come together. And then the the the the Americans would come rescue us. But he had he was he was forward thinking. He was attacked. And I said, oh, my gosh. 

SPRAGUE: So what were some of the changes that you observed in the in artillery? And I know you changed later in your career, but anticipating that from 1970 to 1990. 

KALETA: And really, as far as weapons, it didn't change that much because we still, at least in the artillery weapons, they went to Paladins. And when I was in Europe, I committed M109A1 battery and they were still being utilized. When I retired in 1990, it was still a. Primary weapon for the artillery. We had more advanced weaponry. We had the copperhead, we had more laser guided munitions. And that was the big thing of doing, you know, trying to coordinate the land battle with with and we love the A-10s from a division point perspective because they are tank killers. And that was our big concern was the Russian armor and the with the copperhead and the guided munitions. We were we were that was the biggest change by the time I retired. Initially. We're we're still using, you know, the HD and 50 rounds and so they. Make mechanically ammunition wise it didn't change that much in my 20 years and I was as I'm an active with an artillery unit because we still had basically the same type of but at the later part with the RPG coming in, the enhanced they're working on getting rid of the had that was it called care.com no attack in a digital type of targeting system rather than going away from. In fact, one of the things when I was in Nevada with the first Cav we're doing in our camp for one of our one of one battalion that was using strictly the digital system. And we were to be up late night trying to get the synchronization, to get the things that we get a fire mission across from the Vardy to the battalions to the battery, and we're working the technical aspect of that. The other part tell you other battalion we did a yard on, they said they had trouble. They said, forget it. We'll use the old fashioned way. And they were able to shoot and communicate, but they knew what was wrong because you had to work out through the technical aspects if you didn't work out the technical aspects of of this new technology coming out, we would not be where we are today with with jeeps and. And and things just escalated in the 90s with them. 

SPRAGUE: What what are your impressions over time of a volunteer force versus the draftee? 

KALETA: Well, that's interesting. I must admit that with mixed emotions, I know the thoughts are that you if you have a volunteer force, you got people that want to be there. And but we're dependent on on people being patriotic, looking at the advantages of going into the service, because there are many advantages to going into service and wanting to serve. What do you serve your country? And what concerns me is what I've read is that the patriotism is down with the younger generation and that concerns me quite a bit, especially with the recruiting for the for the services or being down. Having served during the draft later portion of the draft, there's advantages to the draft. We did make a lot of money it wasn't geared to. But if you're figuring a majority of soldiers, soldiers or sailors and marines might be there 2 or 3 years and then go on back to civilian life and but it was a melting pot. I mean, when I was as enlisted, just having different types of people, you people your you weren't normally exposed to different races, different nationalities, different religions. Now, I can't say we had a lot of Muslims when I was on active duty, when I was active. But we different races with different races got the law together. I mean, I, I didn't look at people based on their color. I at least I try not to judge, least not consciously. They were green. I mean, I didn't care whether you were black, Hispanic, what religion you were as long as you did your job and you worked hard. And I have I had commanders that were of different ethnicities. I had subordinates of different ethnic and races, race, race in different colors. But we all work together. I mean, now, do we have some problems with some people? Well, I, I did get Article 15 to white soldiers. I give them to black soldiers. One of my I think things that I was most proud of, not most proud of, but I thought was kind of a contrast, was when I was with in Korea, we had a black soldier that was an MP that had it was facing a battalion, Article 50, and he asked me to be his spokesperson. And because he thought it was unfair because you if you could get someone to speak for you as, as a, for an article, especially for a battalion, Article 50. And it was a contrast. I was acting battery commander at that time, but I at the morning I defended him for the battalion Article 15. And in the afternoon I gave about a battery, Article 50. But it was and I could I probably I think I can't remember the, the race of the soldier. I gave the article 50 but I think he is probably white. But and it were some circumstances for the battalion Article 59 and I faced some some people cheat. He was a dirt bag and I wasn't he was a soldier caught between a rock and a hard spot and was mitigating factors. And so I was able to because I was whatever he trusted me to represent him. And I thought that was great. I mean, but that was that is a unique experience that people nowadays are because you live I mean, you lived in I lived in the same village as a soldier with a variety of people. And. It was I we got along. We had to there's of course, I'm not sure I didn't serve in a as an enlisted soldier in a line unit, so I'm not sure how much different that would or been. But in training in both basic and 80 and as a as a pseudo academy member in 80, you know, and it worked out well. 

SPRAGUE: So tell me about you get out in 1990. 

KALETA: Okay. 

SPRAGUE: You retire. What was that transition like to the civilian world or. 

KALETA: It was. Interesting because, you know, you when you're in the service and as you know that, too, you've got responsibility. But translating your experience to civilian life is a challenge. And. I was fortunate because I was retired, so I had some money coming up. But I had a wife and three children to support. So I needed a job. And so we were able to get get by based on savings and and my meager because you don't get full retirement at 20 years, you're going to have pay. And but I was fortunate and I applied for college and learning the process to apply is, you know, writing a resume I used services at because I because of my last assignment at a teaching ROTC, I had some context at university and they had a career service division that I was able to utilize that to, to generate a resume. And because I was looking for a job, I in fact, I sent out resumes for I was figure I work in government at biggest staff office for a couple of years. I could pass paperwork. I could I could do that. I also because my degree was in science and I had worked as a quality control engineer. I did have some technical experience and I did handle the budget when I was so I was looking at governmental job and I was looking at state and and industry. And education. Because I did teach. I did and teach. I wrote. I did teach when I was around, you see? Instructor I did teach independent study for for on military history. And I taught military law and some other courses too, as part of an agency. So, but it was hard in some trying to capitalize you know I was I was a battery commander. Okay. What do you mean, a battery commander? What is that? You know, or. I was an S three. Okay. What's in this? Three? You know, so it's hard to translate that. And you had to try to get men. And so I would usually utilize service of the career services division at the at Marquette because I thought access there and also at the VA VA was very helpful because they. Helped me in the effect of an interview and give me critique on how to do an interview and how to get because, you know, you start talking criminology. In fact, one of the things that hurt me from applying for a job at Marquette, I said I'd be helping the men out and doing this. I kept using male. And I didn't. Identifiers, pronouns and that don't you to work with women, you know. You know, because primarily my folk I when I was in the army was primarily men. Now what I should support command and even at the site I women MVP's so I did have women women working for me or I worked with with I did work work with. But it was again male focus. And that was a hard, hardest thing to drag it into in making sure you're not using just one gender because things that had changed but turned out because of my military experience. I got a job at Marquette because they were looking for an assistant registrar at Marquette to handle, and one of the responsibilities of that person was to certify students for VA benefits. And they had lost the veteran they had for that position. And even though I was competing against other the king that my I think my key thing was I was a veteran. So I understood the government language. So like Donovan. 

SPRAGUE: And you were with Marquette for how long. 

KALETA: Are counting my ROTC time? 27.5 years, because I was two and a half years as a ROTC instructor. I had a break of probably 5 or 6 months before I got the job. I actually start working at Marquette because, again, getting a job in civilian life, it takes several time for the interview process. It's not. I think I interview twice at Marquette and I had an interview and in the beginning of June and then one in July, and then that's when I was offered the position. But it it takes a long time because you apply for a job and you have to wait for so long. And and and I applied for so I applied for some jobs in government. In fact, I got a job after I got the offer in Marquette. I got job offer from City of Milwaukee and from other places. But by then I took the market position. 

SPRAGUE: So what other veterans issues are you currently working on. 

KALETA: Or currently working on or. I'm involved in a number of that. One of the main things we're trying to work on is trying to create a veterans memorial that will honor all veterans at. In Heart of Park can be located in wall tosses, Heart of Park. And it's a veterans memorial working that primer with the VFW. American Legion has an ancillary role in it. We do have a representative from them, but primarily the VFW is working with that, and we're working on creating a veterans memorial that will honor all veterans regardless of when they served and what components they served. Because, as you know, there's a difference between active reserves and National Guard. And especially since 1990, the Reserves and National Guard have put yeoman's work into defending our country. And they're not always recognized for that. And even before that, they were. I've had one of the biggest things I ever I've arrived at encountered is the fact that they ask, Are you a veteran? Well, I served in the Reserves. I was a National Guard. Well, you raise your right hand and you say you are liable to be. Now, you may not have been called, but you're liable to be. They call you. That possibility was there and some were. So we want to honor all veterans. So that's one of the projects I'm working on with the VFW. I also belong to IMO Way and one of our projects, and unfortunately I was not able to to help them out this summer. But we support Camp Hometown Heroes and that is a camp for children of military active military who've lost a parent on active duty. And they have it's like a grief, it's a camp outdoor, you know, they have activity, but they also focus on the lost actually children that experience. And there's no charge for these families and but they look for donations. And one of the active things that we support from our chapter of the animal way is we give a donation, we get a grant from National and we collect money. And then they actually one of our members coordinated security for the camp because we don't want it's out in the woods and I've been there several times. If you ask me where it's out in the boondocks out there in the middle of Wisconsin, I could ask about that. So but it's it was a YWCA or a YMCA camp at one time. So it's out in the woods. And but we provided security for that and security being preventing people from accidentally going in there. You say if you're pulling it, I think they might. They may think it's open camp area. No, it's not. It's private. And but if you're in so we control traffic primarily and they control traffic. Unfortunately I was occupied in one of the things that can can help out this this summer but we had members that do that. Are involved with VFW and then with the A I'm a Legion member. The American Legion is involved in our activities. So we're we're working with we're trying to in still in youth, the sense of patriotism, especially from the VFW and the Legion. That is our focus there to help and to help veterans. We want to make sure I was a volunteer with the VA VFW Benefit Service Office, and we want to make sure that the veterans are aware of their benefits. And that's sometimes why I do it, whether it be educational benefits or whether it be medical benefits or compensation. If you served on active duty and you've got an injury, one of the things I find a lot of crew veterans is they're very self-sacrificing. I have a veteran have been talking about applying for Agent Orange compensation is now I'm okay I'm I may be dying but because he died he had right to die down to diabetes. He was at air, he was in the Air Force and he worked with loading aircraft, loading aircraft. And he was in Vietnam. And he was exposed to agent or and he you know, he so he qualified. But he is reluctant to apply because I'm okay. You know, so veterans are very self. They don't want to cause any problems. I'm I'm okay you know so. 

SPRAGUE: So when did you start thinking of yourself as a veteran? 

KALETA: When I think of myself as a veteran, yeah. 

SPRAGUE: When did you start thinking that way? 

KALETA: Oh. Probably. Gosh. And I was unique. I think I made it hard myself as a veteran because I certified and Bush after Desert Storm came in because we had to. We lost a couple that lost both. Some of our students were activated for Desert Storm and for various things over the next 15, 20 years. We went with students, been activated. We we've we've had to where they establish a policy. One of the things I was lucky I was fortunate to be involved in was to develop a policy. If a reservists or National Guard member was activated, how the university would would would take how education would be taken care of, not to deprive them of anything, not to chastise, not to. And so we worked out a system that there it depends on what you were called. If you if it was early in the semester, you got W's and you came back, if you're paid for, you continue your free education and you got to we try to streamline you and you got readmitted every was close to finishing the semester you get if you could take an exam with your instructor and get a grade, fine. And we'll get you to grade and you finish the semester. Or you might do it remotely. So we try to work it situation dependent with the with the people because we had a prior 1990. The acted the choices are the chances the Reserves or National Guard would be active were very slim after Desert Storm or during it. As you saw it, things changed. It was it was a 180 degree. Change for the focus. My wife was active duty for seven years and then served 14 years in the reserves. And she had an a brief maybe on active duty. She had an appreciation for what needed to be done. But I've heard horror stories from especially cadets. I was when I was a ROTC instructor, they had a simultaneous issue membership program at that time. Or you could be a ROTC cadet and the logged reserve or National Guard unit. And I would hear horror stories that they would just twiddle their thumbs from reserve units, some reserve unit, not all. And that's a shame because training is you watch if you lose that opportunity to train and even individual trainers, you know, even when I was a battery commander, my NCOs had hip pocket training because they could do integration and CBR training or or map reading or something to keep if we were lulls in training to to do that. And we required our commanders said trip pocket training. Do you have you know and they would check commanders would check that on active duty. And it's just a shame that I know that some of the reserve units were not attuned to that. And and part of it was just not knowing better, I guess. I don't know what I can't I can't say I don't know because I was involved. And I may be unfairly chastised in these units for being critical of these units. But that's what I heard from from soldiers. 

SPRAGUE: What do you think your life would have been like if you hadn't been in the military? 

KALETA: A lot different. A lot different. I again, I didn't plan to be in for 20 years initially, you know, even though I wanted to be an officer, I never figured I would have my thoughts where I'd be and go back. And that's why I my foot being growing up in Hammond, Indiana, being in the industrial complex, then it had all my relatives working in the mills. I figured out where I was going to end up working in a mill and that in fact, when I was. In the Army, I corresponded with my former employer and employee because I had my job was guaranteed to go back to I worked for Universal Atlas Cement Corp, which was the subsidiary of U.S. Steel. We're in Gary, Indiana. So I had my job. And for my mother, it was safe because I got my mother got calls from my the human director of a human resource director asked me how I was doing and and my job was guaranteed. So I figured that when I got out two years later, 2 or 3 years later, I'd be going back to. And then I knew I was probably going to be transferred because I was in management at that time. So I was the odds I could be sent to another plant or something like that. But I also realized that it would be different. So my life would have been I have not have met my wife of my three kids wouldn't exist, you know, or there'd be different life. But I have to admit, I, I if you ask me now whether I spent more time in academia theor theoretically, and I did in, in the military, whatever, I consider myself. Ex-soldier How. 

SPRAGUE: What were you brought in some other objects or do you care to share or just those are just. 

KALETA: One of these. This is a chemical test. Oh, and I told you that you could test for chemical agents and you there is open is little packet and you have seen that you may have used it and you would test for this. I think it might be for training but it would it was you tear it open and you you press here and there and you call your word your mascot. Yeah. 

SPRAGUE: And it was it have a name on the other side. Is it labeled at all or not or is it still just a green. 

KALETA: It's it's it m something or other. 

SPRAGUE: You even know that the nomenclature I I'm. 

KALETA: A teacher and I go sit on my glasses and I'm like, okay. 

SPRAGUE: But just curious. 

KALETA: Yeah it enters and is faded now but this we actually used and it is and I, we did live agent trading when I was at, at the, at the chemical core and. Oh and that was wow that was I was humorous in some respect because they had that was that the doves a bird they put out downwind to make sure now in case the case so we're in changed or something but and we were addressed and and we worked live agents so we're brethren just in mop here we had a little more heavier protective suits on and we were mashed and and then we had been over and test and we use one of these things that now the actually test for the so it was like if you ask really what kind of gas we use I I'm assuming it was mustard but I, I don't know for certain we were at one unit. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah. 

KALETA: But yeah, yeah, we were at McClellan but we actually their training at Redstone Arsenal, we did, they, we, we went up to Huntsville and. Did our training there and it was, it was, it was interesting. It was just, it was great. I mean, I, yeah, I, I enjoyed but I was and I was at a training we received at McClellan and especially in radiation safety. I've had I was a as I said, I was a camp major and I've had, gosh, three semesters of physics and I've had chemistry, a number of chemical courses. But the radiation was a primarily elementary physics course that really went down because we looked at radiation levels and we could plot and and so we were when theoretically we were qualified radiation officers, when we were safety officers, so we could have served at radiation safety officers at the post we were assigned. I forgot if I could do radiation books on radiation safety and and it was great. 

SPRAGUE: How about some of the other objects you brought in? 

KALETA: Okay. This I thought it was from basic training. This is a soldier's handbook, but this is from 1967 when I was in ROTC summer camp. And this is when the is it talked about information on being a soldier. You know, map read the information that you wear, the uniform and the ranks and the chain of command. P that the exercises we're we're doing because one of the things fish ROTC you probably to do that one of the things you get them to give was p t and and you had to. 

SPRAGUE: Be able to do. 

KALETA: It able to do it because for several reasons. One, because physical training is important. But the other thing was because it gave the young officer a chance to expand your command voice. I still get chastised because I speak too loud because I the army was big, old, big, louder, you know. 

SPRAGUE: So how about in the big envelope? 

KALETA: In the big envelope here? I have I'm curious. And I was looking for this to go. I guess I had some other whiz wheeled, but this was a fallout protector protection protector. So it would. We'd use that to calculate what? Where? Yeah. I had to be right. He was right side up. This is where you would use for plotting if there was a nuclear strike, primarily offensive nuclear strike. And to where? Because one of the things we. Did as chemical officers was to make sure that our troops, when there was a. If there was a nuclear blast you got an NBC one report NBC to report. And we would try to figure out where the danger was, was located out and to get troops out of the area. It's always important that we knew. And the NBC one reports were given by the line units. So we knew where the. And then we would follow up with additional information and we'd plot that so we could on a tactical map to find out where dangers were close and look at different altitude base and what the what it was and what. 

SPRAGUE: What is the nomenclature for that or the part? 

KALETA: I had to look at myself. Because if it's a scoop, look at it. It's a protractor and it has the different statute miles, on it. And it looks like it's. Yeah, I'm just the kill, the tonnage. Okay. You know, if it was a point, you know, we're trying to figure out what the. 

SPRAGUE: IML five, five, six. 

KALETA: Yeah. It's it's AML5, five, six. Follow up prediction plotting you scale IML five, five, six. Wow. Green figures are 1 to 1000 per inch. Red figures are 1 to 250,000 black for figures, 1 to 500,000 per inch. And so we've looked. We're trying to figure out where. 

SPRAGUE: Yeah, where are the follow ups. 

KALETA: Waterfall or a follow that's going to be. And we also there's another device to I don't have it with me that we would use to to for fallout. I don't have a copy of that I and I don't I at least I look I can't find it okay but we would plot I could we were going to very good at plotting both chemical and both new and nuclear strikes were where the dangers would be. Oh, I could do that. That was, gosh, 30 years ago now. 30, 40 years ago. So, yeah. 

SPRAGUE: So what motivated you to do this interview? 

KALETA: To pass on my my concern is that people will forget what Cold War was like and what was that Cold War was and the sacrifice of the the soldiers I served with. I mean, I think of the MPs I served with at the site and 24 hours, 7 to 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, they were protecting US government classified like high school or they were on duty. The soldiers I worked with in Korea who were there on the alert, you go out there with garnish what the weather's like. I mean, it could be cold, it could be below zero, could be had. I mean, you could still go out there. I mean, yeah, you try to be as careful as possible with your troops, but you got to you have to. I've been out the real cold, hot weather, cold weather. I mean, it's just I remember being in Korea and sleeping out there and in your sleeping bag in a trailer and you're cold and get out. You know, I always kid that when I was with the 101st, the difference between a trooper and a hunter, first soldier and Hunter first, and the NCO, senior NCO and officers for the most part was the fact was that if you were a F for an F for glory, five, f, f, four and below, you probably are five and below. You probably share your shelter half, you've got to shelter half. And so you had a tell me, I know as a as a enlisted soldier, when you went out and shared a tent with somebody else as a E-5, an above or E-6 and above an officer, unless you were a colonel, you had a two shelter house, so you had your own pocket. You know, that was a difference. So we were out there with the troops. And unlike the Navy, nothing against the Navy. They they have a different concept. They have a different concept. You spent yourself you are out in the boonies with your with your soldiers, you know, and you were it is that theory and period of of sacrifice and and duty. I mean I think at some of the soldiers, you know, they were young, you know, 18, 19 years old and they're out serving their country. You know, it's something. And now they may I'm not sure what reason they volunteered for. Maybe patriotism maybe was for the GI Bill benefits maybe was for a job. But they they learned quickly that, you know, you don't do it just for the pay. You don't get paid that much Aleesha. Back in the 70s, you didn't. 

SPRAGUE: Know anything else that you'd like to cover at this. 

KALETA: Time? No, I think I think I've spoken about more than I need to. I've given you quite things I haven't even thought about in years. But I appreciate the opportunity and I applaud you all for doing that. And it's a capture because it's going to be lost. It's going to be lost if we talk about it. And again, the Cold War feels the Cold War was that and the Cold War was real. One of the regrets I have for the US government is they didn't recognize with a special ribbon or medal the service of those who served in Cold War because and I know that while you were being shot at, it was true. But the fact is you were potentially serving in places like Tully, Greenland. You served you served on the the Chosen against the young, the ill or the young with the second river. And you served it in the DMZ, both on patrol along the DMZ. That's why the Korean Memorial in Washington is so meaningful for many soldiers, especially the Korean soldiers, for the US troops that served in Korea. Because the patrols you serve, that patrols. I mean, I've been on a patrol. Luckily, I was an artillery unit. So we we had a little may have a little better living conditions. But I think their their sacrifice. 

SPRAGUE: Okay. Thank you. 

KALETA: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Okay. 

SPRAGUE: This includes the interview. 

[Interview Ends]