[Interview Begins]

SPRAGUE: Today is April 11th, 2024. This is an interview with Hank Kulesza, who served in the United States Army from January 20th, 1969 to January 19th, 1972. This interview is being conducted by Luke Sprague at the Tippecanoe Branch of the Milwaukee Public Library for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. No one else is present in the room. Okay. Where did you grow up?

KULESZA: I grow up, mainly around Ambridge, Pennsylvania. Still mining, community. Okay. I went to Ambridge High School.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And, what did your family do there?

KULESZA: My father was, steelworker. So, you work there? Typical family, I guess, in that area.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And your mother?

KULESZA: Housekeeper.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What, what got you started into getting involved with the military? Well.

KULESZA: That was the Vietnam War. And there were choices. People were getting drafted. I was drafted, right after college and, finished college in 68. I even extended it. I didn't finish my credits for another half year. I did a summer job with, Bureau of Land Management in California. So, and, I got a B.S. and forestry, so, and December, I got my degree, and right away got my draft notice in January. And after getting drafted, they gave you a choice. You go OCS or enlist, you know, for another year, you get more choice of, getting into a technical school. I wanted to get into electronics, but I was pretty booked up, so I chose clerical or steno. Actually, it was a standard school, but, if you don't make steno, you make a clerk.

SPRAGUE: Which, which university or college did you graduate from?

KULESZA: And state.

SPRAGUE: University and state.

KULESZA: And that's a state college. Pennsylvania in all the state. Okay.

SPRAGUE: And you graduated in 68, December of 68. Right? Okay. And then the draft notice came in January.

KULESZA: Shortly after that. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And, when they drafted you, did they offer you, an offer you talked about maybe OCS or.

KULESZA: Oh, right. The first, I guess when you're being inducted there the first few days or something, you know, you get go through the physical and they give you, you know, your choice of, you know, going, enlisting rocks or whatever.

SPRAGUE: And, did that interest you at all or not?

KULESZA: Well, I did enlist.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

KULESZA: For an extra year. I didn't want to go have. If you're in the two year thing, you got National Guard afterwards to like this, I can get get some training to maybe, it can be useful.

SPRAGUE: So it was a three year enlistment?

KULESZA: Well, yeah, it's an extra year besides the two year draft. So I had a three year.

SPRAGUE: And for the people that don't know what is a steno stenographer. Okay.

KULESZA: Right.

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

KULESZA: Just making sure we use military jargon or shortcuts.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. And, I've got to ask, you had listed it on your pre-interview form. The stenographer and data clerk together. Are they separate?

KULESZA: Well, it's it's the programs together. If your, grade is in high enough to be a steno. It's like, you know, it's some, rate, like typing. You're typing testers, you're taking notes as a steno. And if you're reading isn't that high enough, you become a clerk.

SPRAGUE: Was there any indication at that time, in terms of the label that a data clerk, was that a more paper based clerk, or was it computing based?

KULESZA: Well, they just basic clerk. You didn't know where where you might end up, I guess, you know, and this was in Fort Benton. Harrison. Indianapolis, which was a small army base.

SPRAGUE: Okay. But before you went to Fort Bend, you went to.

KULESZA: Basic Fort Gordon.

SPRAGUE: And what? Was Fort Gordon like in January?

KULESZA: It seemed pretty cold, I guess, because we had it stoked often, and I got the duty of stoking the furnaces.

SPRAGUE: And was that that photograph thing showed me right?

KULESZA: That was that.

SPRAGUE: Where you've got to get.

KULESZA: The coal furnaces and you had to shovel, wash the earth, you know, the 24 hour shift and you had to, shovel the coal, you know, wash the furnaces. You had a lot hours. I know half a dozen or more barracks that you had to, you know, go walk through and, watch out for. And then, you know, if the flames were getting you had to shovel the coal in there. Yeah. No, it.

SPRAGUE: Was that the same thing as a fire watch? Well, you're.

KULESZA: Me, I'm not sure if it was the fire watch. I'm not sure about the terminology. I don't know, firemen. They called them for some reason. Okay. Like.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What, what was the training like at Fort Gordon?

KULESZA: That was the be the basic training, as far as I remember, you know, getting early up at, 4:00 or something and then formation, I think it's six or something. And then going through the the drills that the pits, put you through. And I remember we had KP two every once in a while, so we had to get up early and so yeah, even earlier to get, things, set up for breakfast, you know, peeling, whole, whole barrel of potatoes or something like that. And you hoped you didn't get the onions because then you'd be. Tearing up a lot.

SPRAGUE: And, when you went to Fort Gordon, were you coming at that point? You were coming from Pennsylvania, right? And where you grew up, what was that like, going to Georgia?

KULESZA: Well, I guess you got us there. So it was different. There was different type of terrain. I guess pine and sand and stuff like that. So, you didn't get out too much because you were constrained there in your barracks, so you really didn't get a good picture of things.

SPRAGUE: Do you remember where on Fort Gordon you were.

KULESZA: Not at your hand.

SPRAGUE: Okay. At that point were there did you train with women as well or.

KULESZA: No, I don't think there were many women back then.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. When you enlisted initially, I think you and you may have told me this. Did you enlist to become that Dana Clark? Yeah. You did, didn't you?

KULESZA: Well, as a clerk, you know, I got that little assignment later. I think they they took, you know, I saw work when I got to Vietnam. I got lucky, the guy saw. I think he was in the same university he gave me, one of the better places to go to, and I think they needed. So I think that was adaptable, I guess. Somewhat.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so after you got done, we'll hop back before we get to Vietnam. You get down at Fort Gordon. Did they then bus you to Fort Bend, Harrison, or did they train or fly or do you?

KULESZA: I'm not sure. Okay. And there, I'm not sure if we have a short leave or what. Maybe not.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so you had provided us in the interview form. It sounds like about April 7th, 1969 to about July 25th, 1969, you were at Fort Benjamin Harrison.

KULESZA: Right?

SPRAGUE: What was that training like?

KULESZA: Well, it was done. Like, being in a classroom, you're, you know, you're given steno training or clerical training. You know, pilot was typing, you know, going through the basics of typing. And, Steno was doing the shorthand notes and things like that. Like, for the U.S. Army, you could make a little five or something like that. You had a. Well, that was good about Army shorthand, because you could abbreviate the military jargon a little quicker. So it was probably a little quicker than, civilian, stenography symbols and stuff.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So it sounds like to me there was almost a special shorthand for the military.

KULESZA: Well, some of the because of the military jargon. So you had some special characters or things like that.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Is there, any experiences that you remember from either Fort Ben Harrison or Gordon that stick out in your mind?

KULESZA: I think for Ben-Hur. Harrison was nice because you were there by. I think I went to the. He had some time off. You can go to, they had a local club that welcomed, enlistees or service people. I think USO club or something. And also they had the, Indy 500 there, so I think you could see, go to the preliminary, races and things like that.

SPRAGUE: When you got to Fort Bend, Harrison were. Was the discipline more relaxed? And it wasn't basic?

KULESZA: I think it was probably a little more relaxed.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Did you still have, drill instructors at Fort Bend, Harrison or Austin for.

KULESZA: I think it was just a class schedule kind of thing. It was.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

KULESZA: I don't remember too many, instructors.

SPRAGUE: Does anybody. Do you remember anybody from Fort Bend, Harrison that you think back on or remember?

KULESZA: Yeah, I did. We didn't really connect because we got. I think people were all over the country. I think there was one young lady there. There were a couple of women in the class. So from one was from Pennsylvania. But then you got here, you got to just woods scattered all over.

SPRAGUE: Do you happen to remember those people's names or not?

KULESZA: Well, I do have a photo of the glass. Oh, sure.

SPRAGUE: So. Okay.

KULESZA: But, nobody that I kept in contact with.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So you get on with the training at Fort Bend. Harrison. Did you go on leave before you went overseas, or how did that work?

KULESZA: Yeah, I believe we had some leave. And then, because then I was, leaving out of Fort Dix, new Jersey, the plane. I remember I got a local flight at the Pittsburgh airport to, to go there, and one of my, my friend who worked for, I think, TWA, and it was able to get me a through, put me into, first class.

SPRAGUE: Oh, really?

KULESZA: Yeah. One of the bennies, I guess.

SPRAGUE: So was it, a commercial flight or a.

KULESZA: Commercial flight to to Fort Dix?

SPRAGUE: Okay. But then out of Fort Dix. Military flight.

KULESZA: Right. I think we were stationed there for a week or so, you know.

SPRAGUE: And I think, you may have covered this in another narrative, but tell me the sequence of the flight over the sequence of how you got to Vietnam.

KULESZA: Well, it was just a long plane ride. I think we had one. Might have been a refueling stop, but it could have been Japan. Possibly. So.

SPRAGUE: But it was, with multiple stops. It was a direct flight.

KULESZA: Well, it might have been one fueling stop or something like that, I think.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

KULESZA: Coming or going? I think once we, I think the, coming back, it was different. I think we we may have stopped in Alaska because we had, other coast we came in.

SPRAGUE: Do you remember the type of plane that I was not offhand. Okay. So. And I think you've, explained to me what it was like when they opened the door in Vietnam.

KULESZA: Yeah. It was. Yeah, it hit, by a sauna or something. It was something else.

SPRAGUE: Were you. I have to ask, were you nervous going into Vietnam?

KULESZA: I was, well, the first week you're in barracks and you have no weapons, and you hear the shelling at night and stuff like that. So you're. You don't know what to expect.

SPRAGUE: When you first got there, were, where were you located at?

KULESZA: I think it was, panjwai or something like that. I forget, barracks that. We were at. But, you were there.

SPRAGUE: And then you probably. How did you get to know Trang from Panama?

KULESZA: Yeah, that was a good question. I think it had to be, a plane freight. I think, it was one of the, some transport, plane, I believe.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And was it a regular run between the two bases?

KULESZA: I'm not sure on that.

SPRAGUE: Okay. No problem. No worries. So what was your impression when you got to know Trang?

KULESZA: It wasn't too bad because it got, seemed to be a headquarters unit to get a good assignment. They are working in an air conditioned trailer. So. And Yanni. The bunk, bunk house was pretty decent, you know? And we weren't in the field or anything like that, so it seemed like a good assignment.

SPRAGUE: And just for the listener. You showed me the bunk house, and you showed me the trailer that you worked out of. I have to ask, was the trailer almost rhetorically, was the trailer air conditioned?

KULESZA: Yes, it was air conditioned.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And where the barracks.

KULESZA: Air conditioned barracks wasn't air conditioned?

SPRAGUE: Yeah. And hence the pictures that you showed me. You were sleeping outside on the ground.

KULESZA: Well, that was coming back.

SPRAGUE: Oh, okay.

KULESZA: That was, the last week when we were. That was after, Vietnam. After we got back, we're going. We're gonna come back to the States. That was the last week there were waiting for flight or whatever.

SPRAGUE: Oh, gotcha. Okay, so you had mentioned it earlier. So you were with the unit. You were with was what unit in Vietnam.

KULESZA: First field force headquarters. Okay. Because they divided Vietnam in four different sections. And that was the headquarters unit for a Second Corps. And it was G-2 for, I think, the sub branch or something.

SPRAGUE: So you were literally in the headquarters of the First Field Force, right in the G-2 office.

KULESZA: Right? Although we were in a trailer.

SPRAGUE: And a trailer. Yeah. Okay. Was there G-2? Usually it's an officer. You may be a general or a colonel.

KULESZA: We had a captain in the trailer who supervised us.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

KULESZA: He could have been under somebody else. Most likely.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. And, it would have been roughly based on what you told us. Pre-Interview sometime after September 13th, 1969. So a week later in country, maybe September 20th began. Right. Roughly. Roughly. I'm just trying to ballpark.

KULESZA: Yeah. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So I have to ask, what was a typical if there was one, what was a typical day like working there?

KULESZA: Well, it was a new branch. They were trying to, computerize the, combat incidents. So we had to develop, it went and we were using the old key punches, you know, the data cards. So you had to keep punched them and you had to verify them. Then they sorted him, and, they took the data cards down to, camera on Bay. Every so often, I would get a chopper down to Cameron Bay to put the data into, their computer, system down there so they could run the reports and stuff.

SPRAGUE: So if I understand you correctly, you had to physically move the punch cards to Cameron Bay to do the right to do the compute. Right. The computer down in Cameron Bay, was it? I have to ask, was it connected to any to back to the United States or.

KULESZA: That I'm not sure of anything.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And did you, dumb question. Did you escort the punch cards down to Cameron Bay, or how did that work or what?

KULESZA: Well, yeah, I guess you, you just carry them with you.

SPRAGUE: Do you happen to, by chance remember the name of the computer or the punch card system?

KULESZA: Not right offhand.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And what, what

KULESZA: What they could have been was IBM possibly or I would guess.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So you get up, you're generating these punch cards. Were there shifts that you were working, like, a 12 hours on or eight on or eight off?

KULESZA: We usually worked longer shifts, and also there was nothing too much other to do. So you did, I forget, I think you work some weekends, maybe.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And, what did you do in the downtime.

KULESZA: Okay. Well the beach was only like 50 yards in front of their gated headquarters, so. And so we have a beach mat or something. Go lay on the beach. That was one nice activity or that we could do. And, we had, movies in the evening. Between the barracks and we had a basketball court. And one of the big things was, they real sound systems. They had a place where you can get them done. The music, all the pop music, rock music and stuff like that. You can put it on, well, there's a real inch reels on your own system. And, so you had, the music.

SPRAGUE: Reel to reel maybe. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. How much, what, are you inside a perimeter there or.

KULESZA: Yeah, headquarters had a perimeter there. And sometimes we I do, duty, like to fix the, clean and, fix the jeeps. Kind of. I know one Jeep had, like, the where you put your feet there was rusted through, and we had to kind of put some plate in there and repaint stuff and things like that. Do some maintenance on the things.

SPRAGUE: oh. Okay. So they had you doing maintenance on the jeeps, too, right. And these were, or these Republic of Vietnam jeeps or where they are.

KULESZA: No, they were gigantic jeeps.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Did you you talked about pulling security. Were there other units on your perimeter or how did that work.

KULESZA: When we got there? The Vietnamese one was. No, they had MPs doing the guard duty. And, later on they had Vietnamese doing, Urban's, they call them, doing their guard duty. And at one point we even had to pull guard duty, too. So that was interesting sitting in there, at night and, up in the guard, tower.

SPRAGUE: I have to ask. Well, you were on a perimeter. Did you take any fire or not?

KULESZA: No. It was fairly peaceful there. The only at our base. Well, the only thing every 3 or 4 months, they'll throw some shells into the air base, which wasn't close to us. And, I think that's where the officers headed based. I think our officer, got had a close call. And, so that was that was, and that was I showed one picture where they, fuel, big fuel, storage tank got to hit once.

SPRAGUE: And that was, the fuel tank was where.

KULESZA: That was kind of, by the air base.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Now probably.

KULESZA: Probably, probably five miles away from us or some few miles away.

SPRAGUE: Okay. How did you communicate to talk back to your families in the United States?

KULESZA: Back then, we didn't have phone calls or anything like that. It was mainly mail. I guess the, military had free mail service, so I think that was the only way to communicate.

SPRAGUE: Did, what was your situation? Did you have family back home? What was that like? Was there?

KULESZA: You know, I had family back in Pennsylvania there.

SPRAGUE: Okay, okay. What were who were some of the people that you remember from your unit while you were in Vietnam, that you could recall their names or remember something special about them?

KULESZA: Yeah, I remember well.

SPRAGUE: Hey, you're willing to share?

KULESZA: Yeah. That's. 1 or 2 people. Well, I know the remember one of the sergeants there, and we all we had a very small work unit. We only had a few people in that, trailer. Besides the commanding officer, we had only 2 or 3 people, and at, so you got to kind of be somewhere close to the people there. I remember then I had to come back to the States. Then I remember getting a call from, from, one of the people in the. I think he lived in Kentucky or something. I don't know how he got my phone number where I was in Georgia and was able to find me. It was a neat call, you know, but it's, most of the people I think I forgot their names and. Just can't, didn't have too much contact with them.

SPRAGUE: While you were moving back to the trailer and the day to day to day work. How, how did the communications work? So you could put the information on the punch cards? Where did you get that from?

KULESZA: Well, I guess they had the sheets with the incidents, like, what is it? It was a combat incident or whatever it was, and we would have to put certain things like if people were killed, Kia would put that in a certain column or we'd have to, kind of, put the incident in a certain category. You know, some of them might be, you know, only a sniper attack or something like that, or a mining a mine or something like that.

SPRAGUE: Any particular days that you remember, while that information was coming in?

KULESZA: Right offhand, because it's been a long time ago. So that's over 50 years. So.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Okay. So, how were, how are things in terms of race relations while you were there in your unit?

KULESZA: Okay. We didn't have, in my small unit. We didn't have any. But, I just remember playing basketball with, a few blacks, and they were pretty good, so, and I, I think the barracks sergeant was, black. So, back then, it was fairly good. There was one incident in the States, or we were on a bus, and for some reason, a fight almost broke out for. So I didn't know what the altercation was, but that was the only thing, I think that I remember.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So. And. We shown it on the pre-interview a little bit. You showed me a photograph of, beer drinking, obviously. Follow up question to that. Is any serious drug use, was that an issue there or how did that work or not work with the unit?

KULESZA: I think there probably was some, but our unit probably wasn't under like pressure in combat where people were doing it. I think there were some people around the post and probably were doing it. You could. I think there were some people that were doing it, but, not very obviously there.

SPRAGUE: What, if there was one, did you get a sense of. The unit was there a good level of camaraderie or esprit de corps or negative one? What was the outlook there?

KULESZA: It was fairly good because we weren't really in a combat situation. So our spirits were fairly good.

SPRAGUE: When you got off base or post, did you run into other people, combat units and what was that interaction like?

KULESZA: We didn't run into too many combat units. There was, we would go to Air Force Base sometimes get a good, they used to have, good steak meals there. We used to hit their cafeteria once in a while, but, but and then, we did a little hitchhike again every once in a while. But we did have our jeeps most of the time. But there were a few times we hitchhiked, to the Air Force base and stuff, but there wasn't too much interchange, you know.

SPRAGUE: And, they help me out with this. The air base was nattering, right. I want to make sure I got it right. Did you happen to go. You showed me your pictures from R&R in Australia. Did you go anywhere else within Vietnam that you sort out where when you were hitchhiking or anything like that?

KULESZA: One time I had to drive the camera on with the data for some reason, and our truck broke down. And the guy, it was just me and a driver, and, I had to. And he said, and he hitchhiked back, and I had a rifle, the standing guard over the vehicle. He couldn't leave it because I, I, they didn't see me right away, but the Vietnamese would scrounge parts. I mean, they didn't see me right away. You could see some of them were coming to the vehicle. Then when I shot myself, they didn't, approach the vehicle.

SPRAGUE: That must have been a scary experience.

KULESZA: Well, yeah, in a way, because I wasn't, in the boonies or anything. So I, I was lucky that he did come back, you know, wondering what the heck you're out there by yourself, you know, in a situation, but you're at least on the. Traffic. There's, one of the main, arteries. You know, there's quite a bit of traffic there.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, anything else you'd like to tell me about your tour in Vietnam?

KULESZA: Let me see. I don't know, that's probably a. In a nutshell, I think. Thank you.

SPRAGUE: Well, if you think in anything else, you can bring it back up again.

KULESZA: Okay.

SPRAGUE: So it's it was a one year tour in Vietnam, Crabtree. And then you came back and you went where?

KULESZA: Okay, in Fort Benning. Now, see, the situation was if the people that got drafted, they were given out early. I was 5 or 6 months, but since I had over like almost 15 months left or something like that, I didn't want to extend for two tours in May, you know. But people that were draftees and at that time they had to, the Army had too many people that were given five month early outs. But I had to go back to Fort Benning and, serve my, rest of my tours. And there I got assigned to the transfer point, which is, I was actually the, retirement clerk for the NCOs. So I had to get. And, you know, the Army likes to have paperwork you had about, I know, 1015 form, so I had to have to give them a briefing first, all the paperwork first, and then an individual appointment to go over the paperwork, you know, see what they missed with trying to get the first appointment, fill out what you can. And the second appointment would, go in detail to make sure that they got everything right on your forms. And then back at, the desk, I would type out the two for the two fourteens. So I got familiar with that.

SPRAGUE: What, what are your memories of handling these uncles who are retiring from the army?

KULESZA: Well, I think. Most of them were probably good, happy to get out or whatever. They had a good retirement pay, I think, after 20 years, you get a 50%. Was it, your pay is 50% of what you had. So.

SPRAGUE: So I would imagine, that would have been September 1970, roughly the beginning of the tour at Fort Benning.

KULESZA: Let me see. So, year end of 70, I think it was because the tour was served well that.

SPRAGUE: Maybe you took some leave in there.

KULESZA: Yeah. The dates under on my 2014, I think.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

KULESZA: No record dates.

SPRAGUE: Not not the end of the world.

KULESZA: Yeah. And then. Finish up my tour. I was able to. There was an environmental management division. They were actually offering somewhere else, but I wanted to go to the environmental management division because then I could get some experience. Maybe I could use, you know, world. I was interested in the environment and especially with my degree, I thought maybe it would be useful. So but it was very, some very basic things, you know, were watching where litter would come up and things like that. It was a new division in the Fort Benning.

SPRAGUE: What? I've got to ask, what, if you know, what unit did that fit up under the environmental management division at Fort Benning?

KULESZA: Yeah, I'm not sure what unit it was.

SPRAGUE: Okay, maybe it might have been post, maybe the post or garrison maybe, or something like that.

KULESZA: Maybe.

SPRAGUE: Moving back to the the transfer point. Was that, post that I would imagine. Is it was it post wide or was it unique, assigned to a particular corps or division or just in general?

KULESZA: Yeah. I'm not sure who they were, assigned to. I think it was the, that was it. I know we we were in a whole building, that handled, retirements or whatever.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

KULESZA: You know, processing people under the service.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What were some of the other do you have other memories you have from working at the transfer point?

KULESZA: Yeah, for a while. What was it? We had there are living quarters there for a while. I was on post. We, since I was a spec five at that time, got promoted. Vietnam, which was a specialist E-5 and So we had two people to our own room. You know, the housing was better, but at one time we even got housing off post. Three of us, like, rented a house of post. We did that for a while because rent wasn't too expensive out there.

SPRAGUE: And where were that when you rented that house? Where was it? Off post?

KULESZA: Yeah, it was in the city, limits or whatever.

SPRAGUE: Maybe. Columbus, Georgia.

KULESZA: Yeah. Columbus, Georgia. That was it. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. While you were there at the transfer point, did you you. It sounds like you decided you made an active decision to go to environmental management for 83. Were there any other opportunities while you were at Benning that you thought, hey, I want to do that?

KULESZA: Or, you know, there were no, I'm not thinking none of it all figured.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

KULESZA: I think it was hard to find out. Maybe other opportunities. But you know how I ran across that one, what I did.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, tell me about, you get to the end of your enlistment or nearing your end of enlistment. What's going through your head?

KULESZA: Well, you just basically, you want to get on with your life, I guess. Go back. And I mean, between my, my parents moved to Chicago because my father lost his job, and, the steel mill was one of the first industries that kind of, went down hill. And so he had brother in Chicago. They moved to Chicago. And so I kind of followed him to Chicago after.

SPRAGUE: So, he you decided you wanted to get out? What was the, what was it like, the day after you were discharged? What was that like for you?

KULESZA: Well, it's hard to remember, but you just. Had it at home and and. Plan, your, next phase of your life.

SPRAGUE: When you got home. What? What did you do next?

KULESZA: Well, I was interested in electronics and computers, so I took some technical schools. I got some technical degrees and, got a fairly good job in, in the downtown Chicago area and, worked there, but, I liked the outdoors and stuff, so. And my company was opening up an office in Milwaukee, so I went there. When they opened up the office, it was a one man office for a while. And, that was, servicing and, installing equipment for stockbrokers.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Sounds a lot similar maybe to what you had done in the Army.

KULESZA: I parallel yes and no because this was more technical. That was more of a clerical job, and this was more, you know, technical. Applications.

SPRAGUE: Did you continue any other relationships with people who you'd served with or.

KULESZA: Well. Not too much. I think some some of us had some mild. I had mild PTSD and stuff. And you just want to forget about the military and stuff? You know, you thought that Vietnam was kind of a waste, and you just wanted to move on with your life and not, you know. And keep going with your own life.

SPRAGUE: Do you want to talk at all about that issue, that mild PTSD or.

KULESZA: Yeah. You didn't realize it probably beginning or whatever that may have had some of that. But I kind of work through it and and it seemed to work out.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Where you stopped and you picked up on your career. What else would you like to tell us about your career going forward as an adult?

KULESZA: Well, it was fairly good to, you know, get to Milwaukee and then, I like the outdoors. So I got into, did a lot of outdoor activities and things like that. Cross-country skiing and, hiking, camping, canoeing, things like that.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Did you have any, involvement with any veterans organizations?

KULESZA: Not in the beginning. Later on, I, joined the Vietnam Veteran chapter 324, which is a local Milwaukee chapter. And then, it was until I retired and, I got early retirement, and then I went to the VA and, volunteered there at escort for over like 20 years. But that was only like, once or twice a week. And that was like a four hour shift.

SPRAGUE: And you had shown me some of your certificates earlier. Help me out on this. What, what does an escort do? How does that.

KULESZA: Work? They take patients to their appointments, you know, surgery. You know, somebody comes in, needs a wheelchair, so you take them to their appointment and, you know, dental or eye care, things like that. Or some surgery to pick them up in his room. The patient's in a room there in, gurney or whatever. And you will come down to, whatever procedure they have to take, you know, X-ray or or.

SPRAGUE: And what is that experience? What was it like for you as a vet doing that for another veteran?

KULESZA: Well, I think it was kind of rewarding to do that. And you connect up more with veterans. And I like to walk and stuff. So instead of just hiking, you're doing some doing two things at once. You're getting the benefit out of it. Has to be it will give you a, after four hours, they give you a meal, meal ticket. Oh, nice.

SPRAGUE: And that was in the V.A. here?

KULESZA: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: V.A. some logs are blocked.

KULESZA: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And you said, 21 years at least or more.

KULESZA: Right.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Okay. Any other veterans organizations?

KULESZA: I think that's about it. I'm still volunteering. I'm kind of in, like. What is it? The recreation, for outpatient vets and stuff like that. They have their activities we were building. What was it? Flower planters today? I do that once a week. They do it every so often before this. The, couple years, a year or more ago, they they even built a sailboat.

SPRAGUE: Here at the VA.

KULESZA: Here it was it a special, nonprofit? Okay. This boat works. Okay. This is where they built the planters. Because they have all this equipment, carpentry equipment that, they can, come in once a week or whatever and, work on these special projects.

SPRAGUE: And, the veterans participate in it.

KULESZA: Right, right. They bring some from, the dam or whatever, you know, to, do the planters, but they have different activities for the whole. Scheme of things to give them. I mean, they take them out the ballgames and the hikes, you name it, almost. Don't do it.

SPRAGUE: So, what, we've got, soon Memorial Day coming up. What are your what do you do on Memorial Day?

KULESZA: A lot of times, I go to the VA. They have a pretty good ceremony there, and they have the different groups. Present. Reese. They have a special place memorial that they put the Reese, and they are people giving speeches and things like that.

SPRAGUE: What do you think your life would have been like if you hadn't been drafted and you had served?

KULESZA: That's a good question. I don't know, it's hard to imagine. In some ways. I don't know what, it was a good experience in some ways, because I think one year in a combat zone is like a whole lifetime, you know, so experiences good and bad or whatever they are. And, so, you really learn about life and what's what's important to you.

SPRAGUE: But, it's a big question. What what are some things that you found out were really important to you?

KULESZA: Well, I guess, family and your roots and things like that. Like, I was interested, like, I had family in Poland, so I wanted to kind of reconnect with them and see what life was that like was. And that was during the Communist period, which was really interesting because they were really the, allies of the North Vietnamese. So. It was an interesting experience.

SPRAGUE: What motivated you to do this interview today?

KULESZA: Well, I think. I've seen other people. Do this oral history, and I think it's. And I like the history. I like the Wisconsin History Museum. I like the museums. I think it's important to, have something like that recorded. So they have, some factual things. And I've heard other veterans to, like, talk. There's their stories in it are always interesting.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Did we miss anything you'd like to cover?

KULESZA: I think it will, covered, most most of that I could think of right now.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. Well, then, if that's it, Hank, this is going to conclude the interview.

KULESZA: Okay.

SPRAGUE: Thank you for your time today.

KULESZA: Thank you.

[Interview Ends]