ROWELL: Today is January 5th, 2023. This is an interview with Kari D. Metts, who served in the United States Army Reserve and United States Army National Guard from June 1986 to May 2013. This interview is being conducted by Kate Roll in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, for the I'm Not Invisible Project and Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. So, Carrie, let's begin with where you grew up.

METTS: I grew up in.

METTS: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, but my parents came here. My dad came here first and then my mom and I came in November of 65 from Knoxville, Tennessee.

METTS: So my dad came.

METTS: And worked at Laddish. So a cousin got him a job at Laddish. And he came first. And then my mom and I followed.

ROWELL: And so spelled out for me really quickly.

METTS: LaRouche l a d i s h m Yeah. So I've been here.

METTS: Since November of 65.

ROWELL: And what was that like for you growing up in Milwaukee?

METTS: It was you know, it was.

METTS: It was good. It was good.

METTS: I had a little sister.

METTS: She came in April of 68, and we lived on Hubbard Street. And across from Hubbard Street was a playground.

METTS: Or the Natatorium or.

METTS: So we would play on the playground. We had lots of older young people that were kind of like, I guess you could say like our God brothers or.

METTS: Sisters or whatever it was. They were older, they were like.

METTS: The neighborhood teens, and they would always come to our house.

METTS: So our house was kind of like, I guess you could call it like the Kool-Aid house.

METTS: So they would always come to our house. They would come over, like on Fridays, and they would they would have like beers. You know, my dad would have like, a Budweiser beer and.

METTS: And there would be fill up and Kevin and Bill and Albert.

METTS: And David and. And Carlene and Yolanda and Cathy and Danny. So it was like all of the young people would come to our house and my dad would put on record players.

METTS: You know, records on the record player, the one that was right here and long and.

METTS: You know, I mean, it was it was just nice.

METTS: It was nice. It was nice.

METTS: So the guys would be.

METTS: In like the living room and the dining room.

METTS: And my mom would be in the kitchen.

METTS: With, you know.

METTS: With the young ladies.

METTS: And we would just sit there and just watch them and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, it was it was a it was good.

ROWELL: And so what was your experience with school like?

METTS: My experience with school. So school was good.

METTS: School was good. I think my my most memories come from a little school. Like I said, up the street is called Martin.

METTS: Luther King Community School. So those are where, like, my best memories were.

METTS: And that was I went there from second grade to like seventh grade because then it shut down. I think it was something.

METTS: Like funding or whatever.

METTS: And from there I went to Saint Rita's, which was over on like a cash street. So my parents always thought that going to private schools were best for my sister and I because they came up from the South and they were in public schools.

METTS: So they all thought that, private schools were better.

METTS: So we went there. And then after I graduated from St Rita's from eighth grade, I went to Dominican.

METTS: So I was there from 78 to 82.

METTS: So, yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. And so were there any veterans or service members in your family?

METTS: Told to Uncle Lee and Uncle Jimmy Roy and those are siblings on my dad's side of the family. And I think Uncle Jimmy Roy was in Vietnam, but he doesn't talk about it. And I think he suffered from PTSD. So, yeah, So he does it. He does. Talk about his stuff a lot. I know that for the war memorial, I managed to get a picture of him and.

METTS: Had him on the mural.

METTS: You know, they had, like, the Walk of Heroes or whatever it is. So I had him out there and my other uncle, we weren't really like, blood related, What they kind of like adopted my dad when he came up here and he was we called him Uncle Jack.

METTS: So I had Uncle Jimmy, Roy.

METTS: And Uncle Jed. So the two pictures were were included in that and that was awesome. Uncle Jimmy Roy is still living, but Uncle just passed and I think it.

METTS: Was like cancer or something like.

METTS: That because he was in the Marines during Vietnam. So when we had his picture put up, it was like a family event. And Aunt Mary and and Cousin Ramone and Sean and all of them, they came to see his picture up there and it was really nice. So, you know, I told Ramone, I said, I really want to do this for Aunt Mary, you know, because she served with Uncle Jack. Tim, you know, even though they married after he left the service because he was in the Marines, but she served alongside him.

METTS: You know, that's that's my thought.

METTS: She was there with them, especially at the end when he started having.

METTS: Health problems with cancer and stuff like that. So, yeah, it was really nice to see that up there for her.

ROWELL: And did they talk about his cancer being service connected with them serving?

METTS: I think I think they finally found it to be service connected because of course, he he had to he had to prove that he.

METTS: Was where he was because there was nothing in the books, so to speak.

METTS: So he had to he had to pull up these pictures. And I think he was also interviewed by like, I don't know if it was called like, the Milwaukee Community Journal. I think it's like a a newspaper for like the black community. I don't know if it still exists, but I think he was interviewed for that because talking to because of Ramone, he said, yeah, you know, didn't know that dad was in there and, you know, had to find his pictures. So, you know, they had to provide proof.

METTS: To support his.

METTS: Claim because it wasn't on like his to dash one that he was there.

METTS: And all that kind of stuff. You know.

METTS: Some clerks back then, they probably weren't the best.

METTS: So. So, yeah.

ROWELL: And then did you did you have any awareness when you were a kid of your uncle's maybe struggles with his PTSD?

METTS: No, no, because Uncle Jimmy White.

METTS: Was down in South Carolina, so didn't find out about that until.

METTS: Like later, like a couple of years later.

ROWELL: And then what was your impression of the military when you were growing up.

METTS: If anything? I didn't know anybody. I didn't didn't know anyone. So it was like, okay, the military, it's something for me. And who.

METTS: But not.

METTS: Didn't didn't know anybody at all.

ROWELL: And can you tell me a bit about your first introduction to military service as a possible career option for you?

METTS: So I joined I joined the.

METTS: Military because I needed.

METTS: Money for school like most.

METTS: Young people do.

METTS: Nowadays. I needed money for school.

METTS: But, my my dream was to, okay, I want to join the military. I'm going to, I'm going to go to Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California. I'm going to learn how to speak Spanish. I'm going to be stationed in Southcom and South Command. And then, you know, when I'm done, I'll go to school. And then I moved to Spain because I went to Barcelona, Spain, when when I graduated was like my graduation gift because.

METTS: I was studying Spanish in high school. So I was like, Hey, I'm going to do all it. And it didn't work.

METTS: So so then.

METTS: My recruiter, Rodney Thompson and there was another way.

METTS: Sorry for his class did have a life. They were my recruiters and.

METTS: They they were both instrumental in having me join the military. Because at first I told Thomas that. I said no. I said, You get me in the best way you can now. So then.

METTS: I was like the.

METTS: I don't know what you want to call him.

METTS: He was like like the person that they deal.

METTS: Similar, I guess you could call him.

METTS: You know, they sent him in to seal the deal. So then I got in and and then I was like, okay, you know, I'm here, I'm doing this. But Thompson was adamant. He was like, okay, okay, I can get you in active duty.

METTS: I was like, No, I'm not leaving my mom. I'm not leaving my mom. No, no, no, no. You don't have to leave your mom. You can stay here. You know, you can you can stay here.

METTS: I promise. I promise. It was like York Times issue or whatever.

METTS: So then I interviewed for this job, and it was a guard, like.

METTS: Active guard reserve with the National Guard.

METTS: Because when I enlisted, I went into the Army Reserve first, and then I left for basic training, basic training at 18 and came back. And then when I came back.

METTS: That was when Thompson was like, I'm going to get you in. And I was like, No. So.

METTS: Thompson And people like, played basketball. I guess all of the recruiters got together and they would play basketball. So they would talk to this one recruiter.

METTS: Sergeant First Class Mallory. And Mallory was telling them how there was a position opened in the National Guard and they said.

METTS: We might have somebody for you. And that's how I got in active duty. So yeah.

METTS: So those three, those three.

ROWELL: So when we talked earlier, you also mentioned that you initially did plan on going in full time active duty. But there was something that got in your way. Can we talk about that.

METTS: Yes. So the recruiters, they would always take like their little recruits out to eat. So they took us out to eat, they took us.

METTS: To it wasn't Golden Corral, it was, it was all country buffet.

METTS: They took us to old Country Buffet. So we get the old country buffet.

METTS: We eat, you know, like, yeah, you know, we could be there, know well. So we eat and then I get to mess. And then they were like, you can't enlist because you're a pound overweight.

METTS: And I was mad. I was so mad. I was so mad at Sergeant Thompson. I said, Come get me. He was like, what?

METTS: What was wrong? What's wrong?

METTS: I said, They won't let me sign up because I said I was a pound overweight. He said, What? I said, You better come back here and fix it.

METTS: So Thompson comes down here, he tries to talk to the person type man. She's just a pound.

METTS: Of a no, no, no. Not going to do it. Can't do it. Can't do it. She got to lose the pound and come back. And then it was like, I wouldn't talk.

METTS: To Thompson for like.

METTS: It was it must have been like a couple of weeks.

METTS: I would not talk to him. He would call. I was like.

METTS: What do you want? Hang.

METTS: Click and hang the phone numbers.

METTS: I'm not talking to you, sir. I'm mad.

METTS: I'm mad as I spent all day, all day down here and was poked and prodded all day and they would not accept me. I said, nope. I said, You give me the best way you can and nope, sorry. No.

ROWELL: So then you so from that decision, you you just went into the reserve?

METTS: Yep. First thing. Yeah.

ROWELL: And then can you talk about why you chose the army specifically?

METTS: Because Thompson was the first recruiter that I came across.

METTS: And I can't.

METTS: Remember how I came across.

METTS: Thompson.

METTS: But he was the first recruiter. And I was like.

METTS: You know, I need money for school. You know, I might as well I'll try it.

METTS: You know? So that's that's how it happened. I don't know if it was some somehow his information was down at UW Web campus because I was going to UW him but I don't know how I got a hold of Thompson but that's how I ended up in the Army.

ROWELL: So you were going to University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee when you enlisted?

METTS: Yes. Okay.

ROWELL: All right. How long have you been in school at that point?

METTS: If. If a couple of months maybe. Or maybe like a year.

METTS: Because. Because after.

METTS: Because I used. I used to work. My gosh. I worked at Wendy's. I worked at. Marshall Fields. I worked at Mr. Donuts. So I worked, like, all of these jobs when I graduated.

METTS: High school so that I could.

METTS: You know, give good money to go to college. But, I think it was when I was working at Marshall Fields that I, I really joined the.

METTS: Military, and that's when I left.

METTS: So, yeah, that was a decision. Like, I need, I need my money, I need money to go to school, you know?

ROWELL: So despite working all those hours, it wasn't enough. And something had to change for you.

METTS: Yes. Yes.

ROWELL: And so how did your family react when they found out you were enlisting?

METTS: My mom was like, no.

METTS: No, because I wanted to join right after high school. But I was 17 when I graduated and my birthday wasn't until August and she, she would have had to sign for me and she.

METTS: Was not going to sign for me.

METTS: Because she said, That's not for you. That's too masculine. You don't need to go. So I was like, okay, fine. So then I waited.

METTS: I waited and enlisted when I was 23.

METTS: And that's what I did. She couldn't stop me.

METTS: So. Yeah.

ROWELL: And how did your your dad and your sister react to it?

METTS: They were basically like, you know, because my sister was younger and they were like, okay.

METTS: Are you sure this is what you want to do?

METTS: I was like, Yeah, I need I need money for college. And, you know, you guys aren't paying for me to go to college. You told me I had to figure it out. I said I need money for college. So that was that. And then I left. I left in.

METTS: September for basic.

METTS: Training at 80 and came back in.

METTS: March.

ROWELL: So when you, and actually, was there a specific MLS that was promised to you when you entered braces?

METTS: No, no.

METTS: I was, because my, my Asvab scores, I couldn't get in for the linguists, so I got in as a 71 Lima.

METTS: Which translates as a is a clerk.

METTS: Typist, which nowadays would be.

METTS: Like a receptionist.

METTS: So that was the only one.

METTS: So I was like, okay, fine, I'll do it. And.

ROWELL: And then what do you remember about your induction when you actually did enlist in 86? What about what do you remember about that day?

METTS: My gosh.

METTS: I spent the whole day down in Metz, downtown and in.

METTS: The blue building. I don't think it's there anymore.

METTS: I think I moved out somewhere.

METTS: So spent all day down there, and it was a whole line of us that was sworn in.

METTS: And it's like, my gosh. Like, okay, this.

METTS: This is.

METTS: It.

METTS: So but it really, really.

METTS: Really didn't sink in until you get on an airplane. And then you see all of these other people like.

METTS: You.

METTS: That are just going to basic training. So we're all there. We're on this plane. We landed at the airport near Fort Jackson, South Carolina. You see the drill sergeant coming at you. And, you know, and it's like, my goodness, what did I do? That was when it really sunk in, like the next.

METTS: Morning when you could hear, you know.

METTS: Like.

METTS: The sounds over the bullhorns outside.

METTS: You know, I don't know if it's really I don't.

METTS: Know what it was. I can't.

METTS: Remember. And then I get up and it's like, what did I do? Why am I here? Where am I? And then that was.

METTS: That was when it all like sunk in. And then I was like, No, but it was like, okay, I'm here.

ROWELL: So how did you cope with that feeling? How was that transition? How did it go for you?

METTS: Going.

ROWELL: Forward.

METTS: I think the only thing that that got me through was when.

METTS: Was when we could make phone calls.

METTS: And I remember one time. I was standing in.

METTS: Line.

METTS: And and I'm crying to my mom like no one's sending me any mail. I'm not getting any mail. You know, no one's writing to.

METTS: Me and honestly, that kind of stuff.

METTS: So that was that. And I remember my sister had made like a cassette tape.

METTS: Because then I, I came down with my little cassette tape and we had to put all this stuff.

METTS: In our.

METTS: In our luggage. And then the drill sergeant locked it off in this room. And then sometimes they would let us go.

METTS: In there and take stuff out and all that kind of stuff. So I had taken out my little my little cassette, my portable cassette player and my sister had.

ROWELL: It's okay. You can take your time with it, too.

METTS: My sister had sent me this city. She was crying. Of course I cried.

METTS: But she was saying, like how much she missed me. And I ask myself because we were never close. You know, we didn't start.

METTS: Getting closer to what happened years later. And that kind.

METTS: Of made me cry. But yeah, yeah, that was that was that. That was it. And the only other thing that got me through was when I was finished with my basic and I was still stationed at Fort Jackson because the 71 leave course was there and my dad's side of the family was down there. And if I scored high on my typing tests and everything else, then you could get like a weekend pass.

METTS: Or something like that.

METTS: And I would always call my grandma grandma and it like, is is Uncle Jimmy Royal Uncle Carrie there? Can somebody please come get me this weekend? Can somebody please come get me? And sometimes someone would come and get me and sometimes they wouldn't. So that got me through. That got me through. And in the the friends that I made there, I don't keep in contact with.

METTS: But just the little stuff like, like I remember.

METTS: Coming back and they couldn't check your purse.

METTS: They could not check your purse. So the army would issue you like these, these ugly little patent leather black purses. And one of the drills.

METTS: Side, I said, Max, I know you got something in that purse. You're lucky that we can't check it. And I was like, No, just sign off the.

METTS: Meaning of my purse. And then I would go upstairs.

METTS: And I forgot what her name, her last name was, but her first name was.

METTS: Linda. And she said, Miss, I know, I know you went to your grandmamma.

METTS: House and you guys are.

METTS: Fooling at first. What do you have in it? And I would pull out food in the aluminum foil wrapped up on a foil. And I just said, I better not find any food in the garbage can. I was like, okay, dressage. A lot of us are just like that. And we would get up in the air, we would just eat it and roll everything up and then get like the brown paper towel from the bathroom and wrap it up in there and put it away at the bottom of the garbage can. And we would just yeah.

METTS: That was that was what I was for.

ROWELL: Do you happen to remember any of the songs that were on the mix tape that your sister made for you?

METTS: She had a song on the by David Sanborn, and it was called Maputo. Yes. Yes. Yep. Yeah. Put it in. And then, yeah. The song with like that? Yeah.

ROWELL: Got you through?

METTS: Yep. Got through. Yep.

ROWELL: Are there any other specific kind of memories you have from basic that you that still stick out to you when you think about it?

METTS: We have is this one drill sergeant in.

METTS: 80 of.

METTS: This individual training tar.

METTS: Tar African American guy. I can't remember his name, but when he found out that I was.

METTS: From Milwaukee.

METTS: And of course, everybody associated Milwaukee with Happy Days and Laverne.

METTS: Shirley and then was like those black people in Milwaukee Pride. I didn't know there were black people in Milwaukee was like, just, you know. So yeah, that was.

METTS: That was funny. That was funny. And then he would say something like, though.

METTS: Like when we had to do our, our, our field training exercise, he was like, and I advise all of you all to go to the pigs and get some pantyhose. Now I wear pantyhose when I'm out in the field, but you better not say.

METTS: You know that I'm gay or whatever it was back then because they keep you warm. So I'm telling you, you know, get yourself.

METTS: Some aerials to keep yourself.

METTS: Warm. So yeah, it was, yeah, that field training exercise, it was, it was too much.

METTS: And then it was drill Sergeant Daniels. It Drew Sergeant Daniels was tall and slender, and he he would stutter.

METTS: And then he would always whistle first before he started to speak.

METTS: And it was me and somebody else. And we were we were bragging about how clean we were. We had just washed up and blah, blah, blah. And he said, okay. He said, Well, I'm not. I'm gonna fix that. And he made us.

METTS: Roll in the dirt, not just, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I remember we got it was really cold.

METTS: And I think they brought us in early because of frostbite.

METTS: I think one of. One of the girls got frostbitten and stuff like that. So. So, yeah. Yeah.

METTS: Then how everybody was freaking.

METTS: Out when it was snowing, it was like, you.

METTS: Don't know anything about snow. It was like it was like this. This is not. This is flurries.

METTS: So yeah.

METTS: Yeah, it was good. It was good.

ROWELL: So it got pretty cold in South Carolina.

METTS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: And then you said the field exosomes too much. Yeah. Can you tell me what you remember about.

METTS: My goodness. The. The field.

METTS: Training exercise.

METTS: You know, like, we all had to sleep in these little the little pup tents and all that kind of stuff.

METTS: And, like.

METTS: Just learning.

METTS: Basically, like, learning how to survive in the element, you know, cause I.

METTS: Wasn't one for, like.

METTS: Hiking or staying in the field or, you know, going camping with family or something like that. But, you know, doing like, your basic soldiering.

METTS: Skills, like.

METTS: Putting up a tent and guarding the perimeter and, you know.

METTS: All that kind of stuff. And it was like, my gosh.

METTS: I hate this part. I really do. I, I don't. I don't like this. I really don't. And I remember.

METTS: One of one of the drill sites, she was female and she she made the comment.

METTS: She was like.

METTS: Just because you're a suddenly one Lima and you're going to be at a typewriter, don't think that the enemy can't get you.

METTS: I was like, Why are you telling me this? You know, I don't want to be somewhere. And I get struck by, you know, the enemy or something like that. It's like, no, no. Just because you're in the back doesn't mean that you won't be, you know, susceptible. I was like, I want to hear this. It was like, no. So.

METTS: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. It was good.

METTS: Then we had then there was one through a section that she would come.

METTS: On, she would, she would always like.

METTS: She would cut her hair like this. Yeah. African-American juice. And, and she was like. Ms.. I heard that you did a good impersonation of me. I was. I know. Just. And she's like, You better do it. I was like, okay, this. I know what it is. Yeah. Actually have sat here like this. really. Yeah. Yeah it was.

ROWELL: How did you react to that.

METTS: She kind of, she kind of.

METTS: Laughed because she was like, okay, okay. So I was like, okay. It was very new. It was like.

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: So it seems like your, your drill sergeants were a mix of male and female. Yes. What was that proportion like. Do you kind of remember.

METTS: When we.

METTS: Were at basic training we were like their first, first team of female trainees. So some of them it was like, okay, we've never had female training before.

METTS: You're our first. And we were all the way at the bottom.

METTS: Of what they call like take heel, and I don't think it exists anymore. So we were at Take Take here and we everybody else would would have to.

METTS: Walk where they would have to go to like the to the ranges.

METTS: We got cattle card so they, they, they had cattle cars for us and, and that's how we went. One time we had to march and my gosh, I think we all thought we were going to die. But we were like we were like their first cycle of females. So we had I know there was Drill Sergeant Daniels in there. I think they were probably like two other males. And I know.

METTS: I remember one.

METTS: One female drill sergeant. I remember her because she would bring her son.

METTS: Up to see us on.

METTS: Like the weekends.

METTS: And he called us privates.

METTS: She said, my son wanted to come see the privates today.

METTS: He couldn't say privates, so she would break them up there and we would just just circle.

METTS: Around her and the little boy and everything. So it was nice. It was nice.

ROWELL: And. So was there anything that you remember that made you feel like, okay. Yep. This environment was absolutely made for male recruits, for this.

METTS: For me, this is.

ROWELL: You know, maybe they weren't always prepared.

METTS: With this like it was made for males. Yes, I.

METTS: Would say I would say when we had like a night training exercise and that was when we had to practice and maneuvering. And and then there was one exercise I'll never forget. So it was like you had the towers and then you had barbed wire and you had we had to hide, crawl and low.

METTS: Crawl.

METTS: Underneath and you had like flares and stuff going over.

METTS: Your head.

METTS: And everything.

METTS: So it was it was really real. And they were like, go, go, go.

METTS: So it was me and my buddy and I cannot remember her name. So we were like, you know, high ground. She was like, Wait for me.

METTS: I said, You better come on, buddy. Just like that. And I was just gone.

METTS: And and I was not. I was like, No.

METTS: Like, no, this.

METTS: Is.

METTS: This really is not for me.

METTS: It's not for me. There. Yeah.

ROWELL: So, some soldiers support kind of hearing the phrase everyone is green from their drill sergeants, implying that among recruits, race shouldn't matter or doesn't matter. Did you encounter that at all?

METTS: No. No, I never. That's my first time ever hearing that phrase.

METTS: I've never heard that phrase. All I heard was like, it's it's us Army. It's us, You know, how do you hear something like that? Or.

METTS: You know, and, it's, it's a team thing. You're all in this together.

METTS: This is your. This is your buddy.

METTS: You know, your. Your your your battle. But if you don't leave your battle buddy behind, you know.

METTS: All that kind of stuff, you know?

METTS: Had to. Had to learn about.

METTS: The person that you were with the basic training. And her name was Teresa Sullivan.

METTS: She was my best buddy.

METTS: And I think I think was Tyrese. I forgot where. I think Teresa.

METTS: Stayed above.

METTS: Me in the top. Look, I can't remember, but I remember when we came back from doing something and the drill sergeants came in and they had like, tore up our our barracks.

METTS: So Teresa Teresa had helped me with my work, and she was like, I helped you with your bunk. And my wife was the one that gets destroyed. So and, and and Teresa, I think Teresa was.

METTS: She was married and had kids and she already worked in the civilian world as like a secretary, so she didn't have to do the 71 Lima stuff. And I never forgot. Her name was Teresa Sullivan.

METTS: And she left. So it was it.

METTS: Was Teresa Sullivan that never forgot.

METTS: And another person with me in 80. And it basic, basic I think it was basic and she was from Alaska and her.

METTS: Name she's hit. She said my name is Iva was Sally. That's how she said her name. Iva was Sally.

METTS: And I think I think she was like a native.

METTS: Eskimo or something like that.

METTS: And I never I never forget Teresa Sullivan.

METTS: I never forget Iva Wesley.

METTS: And then in 80 it was Teresa, Jack, Serena Jet, and I got to be really close and she would come to.

METTS: Grandma's house with me on the weekend passes. So yeah.

ROWELL: And were there a lot of other, like, young women of color in your training group?

METTS: Yes. Yeah, it was quite a few of us, though. I know it was. It was me and someone named Brenda Washington. There was one girl from New York. There was another young woman who we called.

METTS: Dinty Private Dinty. They called a private then team because when you got to basic, when you when you got there, they had you into all of your stuff for contraband. If she had been a teen girl, then teen girl and.

METTS: Her name was Private Data Teen.

METTS: That's what they called a private then teen. It was her.

METTS: And I remember there was a young woman who was at a teen. I remember her. So yeah, it was it was it was quite a quite a mix. Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. And what was your experience with that like for you?

METTS: You know, it was.

METTS: It was it was really different because.

METTS: I had never.

METTS: Been, you know, so far away from home. I would say the longest I had been away from home was when I did the study abroad trip when I was in high school. And that was just a couple of weeks. I think that was like three weeks. But you know, here I am. I was really like all alone, you know, didn't know anyone. It was like I couldn't call home. I didn't have any friends.

METTS: So basically it was like.

METTS: Okay, you know, you got to make this work. And the only thing that really kind of helped was when some of the the females that were with me in basic training, we were also there for the 71 Lima course. So it was like I had someone with me, you know, going.

METTS: Through the second part of it. So that that helped out a lot.

ROWELL: Did you ever have a nickname in Basic or in a.

METTS: No, they just called me Mets. No. Me. And what was it? What was it that we did? They were like on Male Call.

METTS: I don't know. I don't know if it was me they started it or what. So every time we had male call.

METTS: We had to do some kind of little dance.

METTS: Move or something.

METTS: So. I don't know if it was me they started out or what.

METTS: But yet.

METTS: They basically just called me a minute. So, yeah, that was it. Do you have any nicknames?

METTS: I was so glad. Yeah.

ROWELL: Do you remember any of the other nicknames that people earned over time?

METTS: No. Other than Team? No. Not usually.

ROWELL: Flattering.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. No, because they called all of the females We were smurfit. Yeah, they called us Smurfit. Why is that? I have no idea. I don't know. But we. We would call service.

METTS: That's what we.

METTS: Were. We were customer of it.

ROWELL: So everyone, all the. Like, all the drill sergeants called you?

METTS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: Even the female.

METTS: Yeah. They will call us Smurfit. I mean, I don't know why. I was like, Okay. Yeah. So we were smurfit. And it's the idea Smurfit.

ROWELL: And so moving on to that kind of 80 still for Jackson.

METTS: Like for Jackson.

ROWELL: What were those courses like for you?

METTS: It kind of.

METTS: It was interesting because I, I really didn't know how to type. So even though I had taken a type, of course, in high school so that that, that kind of helped a little bit. But we learned we learned how to tie and we learned how to follow the of the the regulation for our correspondence, you know. Okay.

METTS: Well this is this is your original document and this is this is your enclosure one. This is your enclosure two, this is your enclosure. Three, you put the original document here.

METTS: And then it goes in order. So I think it would be like the original document.

METTS: And then it would go that way. I can't.

METTS: Remember. So yeah, was that. And then we learned the, the modern Army recordkeeping.

METTS: System, the Marks system.

METTS: You know, I had like.

METTS: All of these numbers for all of these different.

METTS: Things and this is how you had to do your little filing system and all this other kind of stuff. And yeah, yeah. I think the 71 Lima stuff helped me with civilian jobs.

METTS: When I came home off of, you know.

METTS: 80 as well. What do you do?

METTS: I was 71 Lima And what's that? It's like a clerk, typist or receptionist in this office. So you had a typo? You got a file? Yes. Okay. So, yeah, that. That helped me.

METTS: Get a civilian job. So. Yeah.

ROWELL: And then were your courses mixed gender.

METTS: Yes. Okay. Yes.

METTS: That was, that was, that was kind of cool because I do remember, I remember one.

METTS: One young man. I can't remember his name but I remember him and.

METTS: There, there weren't a lot, there weren't a lot.

METTS: So it was him and maybe two others. Maybe three. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: So did it seem like maybe more women were assigned to that?

METTS: I'm a less yes.

ROWELL: That was. That borne out later when you were, you know, out there doing your job.

METTS: Yes. Seeing it seem like that was the one that was probably easier for, you know, females to get into other than being a supply sergeant because there weren't too many that we could do. So I would say I had some that that were with me in basic training and they went to the supply course. So they were like.

METTS: Supply folks and all that kind of stuff.

METTS: But I would I would think that the 71 limit was.

METTS: Probably like the, the popular one or whatever, you know?

ROWELL: And what were the dynamics like between those male students, you know, in the course and and the female students.

METTS: Or dynamics meaning how?

ROWELL: I don't know. So what, what were those interactions like? Did it feel different from when you were, you know, it was a female unit?

METTS: Yeah, it was. It was different because.

METTS: You had interactions with them, you know, because when you're at basic training, you're, you're separated, you know, But when you get to 80, it's all coed. Yeah.

METTS: So that was, that was really different. So, you know, it was, it was really kind.

METTS: Of strange, like seeing for me, like seeing a guy in the mix because, okay, we just came off of basic training and now here we are and you're here. So yeah, that was different.

ROWELL: Some people mentioned, you know, that people started for romantic relationships, things like that and date and whatever during it to you when you get those next courses. Yeah. Is that something that you saw happen? Yeah, you did.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah.

METTS: I saw that happen. There was. There were quite a few that ended up pregnant. There was one. One young lady. And she. She. She ended up getting pregnant, and, I don't know, she ended up marrying him or what, but.

METTS: Yeah, it was. It was some.

METTS: Some stuff going on because the barracks that we stayed in, it was. Was it two floors or three floors?

METTS: I think it was three floors and.

METTS: One of the floors they had like a, like a.

METTS: Wooden, it wasn't like a plywood one to separate.

METTS: The males in the females. So you have one. Florida was all female. You have one floor that was coed, but it was separated by the plywood. And then you had another floor that was male.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: So just separated by plywood.

METTS: Yes.

METTS: Yes.

METTS: Yeah. How does that work out?

METTS: That, you know, human nature is human nature. So when you when you're, you know, off on the weekends, you you, you can probably get away and find things to do. Things which I found a little interesting because when.

METTS: When you had your weekend pass.

METTS: You can only go to certain.

METTS: Places.

METTS: Off post.

METTS: And the catch rate they knew are the places where.

METTS: The the.

METTS: The trainees were going. And they had this thing called.

METTS: Green Thunder and it was a van and it was like it looked like.

METTS: It could be a key lime pie, green color. And it was called Green Thunder.

METTS: And you you had to be in uniform, right? So either you had to.

METTS: Be in your class B or your P T uniform and they would knock on the.

METTS: Door. And if you answered the door in anything other than that.

METTS: They were hauling you off and you would go back. Yeah.

ROWELL: So they were. So if you were like maybe staying somewhere off post or something.

METTS: That.

ROWELL: The check.

METTS: Yeah, they would check because they, they knew they.

METTS: Knew the hotels where all of us were.

METTS: Staying and they would come and they would do.

METTS: These random.

METTS: Checks.

METTS: Yep.

ROWELL: Do you know anyone who ever got caught?

METTS: I think there was some that got caught because you couldn't, you couldn't have, you couldn't have any beer or anything like no liquor or anything like that in there.

METTS: yeah it was, yeah it was 7:00 but yeah.

ROWELL: How did people kind of try to get around that, do you know?

METTS: You know, I, I think, I think it would be.

METTS: Kind of hard because I think one, somebody there had like going for.

METTS: Article 15 for something. And I don't know what it was. Everybody was like, you know, you read a picture of yeah, it be true you know.

METTS: But yeah. Yeah. So.

ROWELL: So that woman who got pregnant, do you remember if that was an automatic discharge at the time or was it or. No.

METTS: I think that her and the person I don't know, I think she probably ended up getting married and she got out.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: And what was kind of the social reaction to that?

METTS: Everybody was lied to. Like, who knew?

METTS: You know.

METTS: Because what was that they called it? Did they call it the rabbit line?

METTS: So we so we would we would be in formation and there would be like.

METTS: A back line.

METTS: Of folks, you know, I can't remember.

METTS: If they called it the rabbit.

METTS: Line or something. So they would ask they it was like. okay.

METTS: So yeah. Yeah it was, it was, it was something.

ROWELL: It was definitely some drama.

METTS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was some drug.

ROWELL: And so people were treating it as kind of exceptional. Was it actually exceptional or did it happen more than people maybe were admitting or.

METTS: I, I can't I can't really answer that because.

METTS: You know, it was it was almost like, okay, who's who's going to drop out next week or something like that, you know, So. Yeah, it was if.

METTS: It was a mess.

METTS: It was drama.

ROWELL: Okay. So people were pretty consistently leaving do that in interpersonal, you know. Yeah. In prisons or other things.

METTS: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

METTS: And I. I definitely.

METTS: Remember.

METTS: When when I was around at Basic, there was this one young lady and she was we were we were done. We were done with everything. We were just, you know, cleaning the barracks.

METTS: And all this other kind of.

METTS: Stuff. And she found out that she had like a heart condition. And she was saying, All I want to do is graduate, you know, with with everybody, you know, that I came here with. And they were like, no, you got to go. And they they she was gone. So it was her. I remember her that was discharged right away. I remember one young woman and she she I would say that she had like a diminished mental capability, which, you know, she scored like off the chain on the Asvab test. And looking at her, you could tell that she did not belong in that environment. And but her I would say that her recruiter put her in just so that he could, you know, have someone to put in for that month. But she eventually was discharged and she was sent back home because she she she claimed that.

METTS: There was some guy, some guy, some soap opera star that.

METTS: That that was that was her boyfriend and. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah. So she wasn't she wasn't there for very long. And, you know, there was one young lady. She wasn't a part of my basic training group or whatever it was. One young lady supposedly had killed herself in the porta potty. And, you know, they would they you know, the drill sites will hear about these things and they would keep it on on the down low so it wouldn't affect us and everything.

METTS: So so yeah, yeah.

METTS: So they would every time when we got off the range, you know.

METTS: no. Something, something.

METTS: No, no regional Elmo drill sergeant or something like that. And we would have to turn our head and then they would, they would chamber our, our M16 to make sure that there wasn't, you know, around in.

METTS: There. No. Yeah. No rounds, no ammo.

METTS: And that was all we had to say. No rounds, no ammo. And so apparently.

METTS: That was that was what had happened. So, yeah.

ROWELL: Did you know people who struggle with their mental health at all during basic reality?

METTS: No, because if if so, it wasn't something that was talked about as much as it is now. It wasn't and it wasn't addressed. It wasn't focused upon because, you know, I would say something like, you know, just, you know, suck it up and get over it, You know, you can deal with it. And, you know, it was that sort of thing. So no.

METTS: No, never, never heard of anybody going through everything, anything like that.

ROWELL: So, are there any other kind of specific stories or memories you have about it?

METTS: No. Just. Just me calling grandma and wanting someone to come in and pick me up or, you know, being there around Thanksgiving and being a little bit sad about that.

METTS: Being happy to go home.

METTS: For Christmas.

METTS: And New Year.

METTS: And then being sad to have to come back, you know, to finish out 80.

METTS: You know.

METTS: But. Yeah. Yeah. That was it. Was it. And and being we were held over because the group in front of us didn't graduate on time or couldn't fix anything, couldn't.

METTS: Get through the the.

METTS: Course on time.

METTS: So we were held over.

METTS: And then I was mad and I call tops in about that. And, you know, you lied to me.

METTS: You know, I was supposed to been starting college, you know, on the screen and you lied to me. And it was like, What's wrong, baby? What's wrong? That's what that's what is. What's wrong with what's wrong? What's wrong? So you lied to me. You told me that I would be back in time. Spy school. And now I'm held over and I can. I'm mad at you. And I was slammed before all of this kind of stuff. Yeah.

METTS: Yes, I remember that.

ROWELL: So you guys remained close then? Yes.

METTS: Yeah.

METTS: Yeah, yeah.

METTS: And the Thompsons no.

METTS: Longer stationed here in Wisconsin. Neither the other is alive.

METTS: So. Yeah, but Thompson.

METTS: Thompson.

METTS: The one thing that I've learned about the military is this. It's a huge organization. But someone will always be able to find you and someone will always keep in touch with you.

METTS: Someone will always try to keep in touch with you.

METTS: That's like I don't I don't keep in contact with anyone from my basic training in 80 days. But I do keep in touch with people that I was stationed with in the National Guard, in the Army Reserve. So, yeah, that's, that's the.

METTS: Thing. You know.

METTS: I can. I can always say that. Do do the Facebooking, as I call.

METTS: It, do the Facebook.

METTS: I'm always able to keep track of people. And and that's that's what I really like about Facebook in itself because I can I can see what my friends are doing. My one friend, Lori. Lori Yeager, Mark Lake. And if you're ever up in the channel area.

METTS: You know, you should really talk to Lori, you know, Out. Out here. Lori. Lori, You should really get a hold of that. I am not invisible project because. Because Lori.

METTS: Lori is something else.

METTS: I call her my sister from a different mister.

METTS: So. Yeah, yeah. So I.

METTS: Keep in. I keep in contact with Lori. I keep in contact with a bar. And she was like.

METTS: The, the supply sergeant when I was in the reserves.

METTS: I keep in contact with, with Childs. She was the retention NCO. So you know, there's some folks that I still keep in contact with. My, my headquarters company commander who retired as a general. I still keep in contact with him, you know. So it's.

METTS: Really, it's really.

METTS: Good just being able to see all of.

METTS: Them on Facebook, you know, you know.

METTS: Just you.

METTS: You maintain that connection that you had. And I think that's the most important.

METTS: Thing because.

METTS: When when I was stationed over there on Silver Spring, the joke was, okay.

METTS: If you get yourself in trouble and you.

METTS: Have to get, you know, go to jail or whatever it is, make sure it happens around the first and the 15th when we get paid so we can.

METTS: Get you back. Yeah. So, yeah.

METTS: Yeah. So it was, it was nice.

ROWELL: And some close really close camaraderie with. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah. And even, even with the, the two women that worked at the PDX.

METTS: Sherri and Kathy.

METTS: So cause you could go in.

METTS: There and just talk to them. It was like they knew.

METTS: Everybody and.

METTS: They knew everything and they were, they were a.

METTS: Joy. I enjoyed them too.

ROWELL: That was it for Jackson.

METTS: Down in Milwaukee. And there used to be a.

METTS: Spell.

METTS: On Silver Spring.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah. And that's our family's okay. So not on post.

METTS: But yeah, for. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, they had, they had a little small shop.

METTS: Right there on Silver Spring. yeah. Yeah. They were. It was cool. Nice, right.

ROWELL: And then so when did you finish your training? Do you remember?

METTS: I finished training.

METTS: In the end of February of 87.

METTS: Somewhere.

METTS: Yeah, it was in February. February? No, no.

ROWELL: I think that's what we talked about.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah, it had to be February. February. Yeah, it was in February because. Because I was home for.

ROWELL: A little bit. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah. So it was in February because we were not. We were the holdovers. So, yeah. So it was in February when I finished all of my training, and then I came home.

METTS: And then where was I working?

ROWELL: Yeah. So what was that first assignment? And I was in the Army Reserves.

METTS: So. So it was like I came back. I was at the Army Reserve. And that was.

METTS: That was totally different. So that was yeah, that was that was different.

METTS: So I can't even remember the name of the unit, but it was like all the way at the end of post, I was down there and.

METTS: I was like.

METTS: Okay, this is, this is my.

METTS: This is my first. It's just my first thrill.

METTS: And do I like this?

METTS: And it's like I don't.

METTS: Know if I like this. I don't know if I like getting up early in the morning Saturday and getting up early in the morning on a Sunday and spending like my weekend here.

METTS: And my mom would say.

METTS: We used to hate when you had drill because you said it would say, if I'm up, everybody's up.

METTS: You know? So, yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: Were you living at home at that time?

METTS: Yes. Yes.

METTS: I was still living at home and. Yeah.

ROWELL: Was that unit maybe the 961st Engineering?

METTS: Yes, the nine 61st Engineer Battalion. Yeah. Yeah, that's the one.

ROWELL: Do you remember anything else about it? About that time? That kind of one month? Chunk of.

METTS: Time. The unit administrator.

METTS: She was really nice. And she was the one that helped to get my package together to go over to the National Guard. So it was her. And then I had. I did, I did. I did my two weeks.

METTS: Of annual training with them. My gosh.

METTS: It was. It was horrible.

ROWELL: Really?

METTS: Was that. It was what? What? I did not. I did not then. And I do not now like. Wooded areas. Okay. I did not like the woods. I think that was the. I think I had suffered from. We had to we had to get in the mat for gear. And I think I had I think I had.

METTS: Passed out or something.

ROWELL: Gosh, that's the chemical weapon.

METTS: Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause I remember. I remember that. I had to go to.

METTS: Your we had to go.

METTS: To the I had to go to.

METTS: The hospital and.

METTS: Then they pumped.

METTS: Me with, with, with fluids and.

METTS: All this other kind of stuff. And then I called my mom like, Where are you? What's wrong? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So, yeah, I. Did not like.

ROWELL: It? No. Was it claustrophobia or were you, like, very dehydrated?

METTS: I think I was dehydrated. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. Dehydrated. And I.

METTS: Do. Yeah. I did not like my.

METTS: For gear then and still do not like it now.

METTS: So. Yeah. Yeah.

METTS: And. That was, you know, doing the two weeks of annual training. I did not like it. I am definitely the type of person who really enjoys the office environment.

METTS: So yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. The soldiering. Yeah. Which is less.

METTS: Yes. Yes. I did not like the soldiering aspect of being in the military. Did that. Yeah.

ROWELL: So, talking about your next assignment. So you became your active guard reserve? Yeah. That correct. And that was just about a month later. Yeah. You got your first assignment? Yeah. Can you. And so you you mentioned a little bit that there were these recruiters, including Thompson, who were kind of talking. And, he knows to just take a pause really quick. Actually. Okay. Okay. So, yes, going back to it. So you became ATR, and you. You entered this new job. Do you. I kind of go through that. That every memory of that. That I'm in that transition.

METTS: Yeah. So. So Thompson was very instrumental. Thompson and Hippolyte.

METTS: Were instrumental in me getting the job. And I remember them calling me talking about, okay, you know, you got to get your package together. You know, this is what you got to do. So I did all of that. And then I remember catching the bus. I remember catching the number, the 62 capital bus and the number 15 Oakland bus over to Whitefish Bay for a job interview.

METTS: And I was like.

METTS: Okay, I'm interviewing for this job.

METTS: I know I'm not going to get this job. They're not going to hire me.

METTS: But by the time I made it home.

METTS: Before I made it home, it was Major Kenneth Roberts.

METTS: And he was the a l the administrative officer. And they had offered me the job. And I was like.

METTS: Sure.

METTS: Okay, I'll take it. So? So, yeah.

ROWELL: Why didn't you think you were going to get the job? I thought.

METTS: I thought they're not.

METTS: Like I'm just a private. They're not going to you know.

METTS: I've just interviewed for this job. They're not going to.

METTS: Hire me or I'm not going to get this job.

METTS: And then when they offered it.

METTS: To me, I was surprised.

METTS: And then And then it wasn't until later when I was talking to the.

METTS: The person who. Who I work with every day. [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX].

METTS: And he said. You know, the only reason why we hired you.

METTS: Was because you were black and female. I was like, well, that's that's nice to know. It's like, okay, thank you very much.

METTS: Yeah.

METTS: And, you know.

METTS: Basically, like the old, you know, quarter.

METTS: Thing, I was like, okay. Yeah.

ROWELL: So under what circumstances did he discuss that with you? Yeah, I don't.

METTS: I don't, you know, like, it just came on out of the blue. Well, you know.

METTS: Why we.

METTS: Hired you, right? I was like, No.

METTS: You know, because I interview for the job. You know, I'm naive. You know, I interview for the job. No, because, you know, you're black and female and lower enlisted, and.

METTS: You know, it helps with with our your record and.

ROWELL: You.

METTS: Get the Equal opportunity report. Yeah. Okay.

METTS: Yeah. Because they had to do every year they had to do like an equal opportunity report.

METTS: And like, okay.

METTS: This is.

METTS: This is your enlisted rank, this is your officer rank. How many how many males and females do you have? How many people of color, minorities do you have? You know. So how many awards did you give out this year? And of these awards, how many were given to males? How many were given to females? And what was their ethnicity? You know, all that.

METTS: Kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: Did you get any sense of that you of that that that was the reason you were hired once you were there or ostensibly.

METTS: You know, it it really in.

METTS: Really made me angry to be told something like that.

METTS: You know? And that was the one thing that stuck with me, you know, the entire time. But I made sure that whatever task was given to me that I did it well. Yeah, that was yeah, that was to me, to me, that was kind of painful. And, and it really, it really did take me off here.

METTS: Really. They took me off.

ROWELL: How long, how long had you been in the job when you were told that?

METTS: It was like but maybe, maybe like a week O or something like that? Like, okay. This is why we. I was like, really? So, yeah, it was, it was that long?

ROWELL: Okay. So they made it known.

METTS: Yes.

ROWELL: And did you? I don't know. Did you get the sense that there were that other other your coworkers had had were cognizant of that or had a similar perspective?

METTS: No. No.

ROWELL: But this one.

METTS: Yeah, it was just it was just the.

METTS: One. So then I was like, okay.

METTS: So this.

METTS: This is.

METTS: Why. Okay. Yeah.

METTS: So where where I was over there.

METTS: I was the only black female for time there.

METTS: Wow. So, Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: You were a lot of your coworkers. Mostly white men were in that regard.

METTS: Yeah. And I remember.

METTS: There was. There was a Hispanic guy. His name was, George Montez. He was. He was like. I don't. I don't know. He was. He was a human resources sergeant. And then I remember Roger Smith. He was black. He was a supply sergeant. There was another guy that was there. He was black. So. So. Yeah. Yeah. There there weren't a lot of full time minorities that were there. Very few.

ROWELL: Yeah. And of those of, of those people, Hillary, the only woman or the only black.

METTS: I was the only black woman.

METTS: Okay.

ROWELL: Were there a couple other women serving in the unit?

METTS: Yes. Yeah. Like, there was, I think she was a retention sergeant or recruiter or something like that. Her name was Dale Pottinger. She was there. And then there was another female that was there, and I can't. Her her first name was Cindy. I can't remember Cindy's last night. So. Yeah, so, so working there it was, it was them. And then when we moved over to Richardson Street Armory, there were.

METTS: There were a few more females.

METTS: That were there.

METTS: Full time.

ROWELL: Okay. So, did the offices just move or What was that?

METTS: What was that that called? Yeah, that whole unit moved because Whitefish Bay, they.

METTS: They didn't like our presence there.

METTS: Okay. Yeah, about that. Yeah. They said that.

METTS: We leered.

METTS: We were noisy. They didn't like, the, I think the common turrets, the because they had howitzers, they didn't like the Howard Sr's, you know, pointing at their homes and all this kind of stuff.

METTS: I remember. Police cars would follow the busses.

METTS: Really? Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: Follow the soldiers.

METTS: Yes. Making. Making sure that. That we got on the bus and it would follow us all the way up to Oakland in capital.

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: Wow. So it seems like there was quite an adversarial relationship. Yeah. In the civilian community, Even law enforcement. Yeah. And the military. Military.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Because. Because when.

METTS: When I.

METTS: Was. When. When I was stationed over there, there was another female over there.

METTS: In her name. Her name was Michelle Avis. And I.

ROWELL: Remember.

METTS: We we went running one day because we, you know, we were doing our team. We were out running and we got pulled over like, what are you doing over here?

METTS: It's like.

METTS: We work up there. We're with the National Guard. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: Wow. So you're being watched and targeted and exclusive. It's explicitly because you were soldiers or because you were soldiers and you're your wife. Yeah. Or just all.

METTS: These. It's the same.

ROWELL: And it was a majority white community, let me say.

METTS: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm.

METTS: Sorry. I remember that.

ROWELL: So that level of animosity was enough to cause the unit to move to Milwaukee, is that correct? Yeah.

METTS: So we moved. Yeah. So we moved over to Richard.

METTS: Street Armory in Milwaukee.

ROWELL: In 1992.

METTS: Was that when we were we over there? I think so. Okay. I think so. I think we were there. I think so. I don't remember. But yeah, I know that. Yeah, We used to be over in Whitefish.

METTS: Bay in a little house called the White House, and they called it the White House.

METTS: And, then we moved over to Rochester. So. Yeah.

ROWELL: And the unit you're with was the 57th Field Artillery.

METTS: Yes. Correct. Yes. Yeah.

ROWELL: And so what was that that whole working environment like for you.

METTS: It was, it was really, it was, it was fun.

METTS: It was, it was different, you know, a bunch of men. And then over over there when, when we moved from Whitefish Bay to Richard Street Armory, there were, there were, there were some more females. There was not a lot, but there were more females there. There was a medical unit. And I remember there were two I think there were two agers there. There were two aghast there.

METTS: What else?

METTS: There was. There was me, I guess.

METTS: And. But those those two were the only ones. And. And then the one woman, Cindy. So, yeah. So it was about three, three of us.

METTS: For maybe.

METTS: Four for including.

METTS: Me, if I can remember. Right? Yeah.

ROWELL: And so, can you remind me what your role specifically was in the unit?

METTS: There. There I was a planning.

ROWELL: Because subsequently, like later you were, you know, training in SEO and you were. Yeah. Personal.

METTS: Yeah, I was. I was a personnel sergeant.

METTS: And then.

METTS: And then. And then I was a training.

METTS: NCO.

ROWELL: Later on.

METTS: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

ROWELL: And what do you kind of remember of your daily sort of duties that you had when you were at the 57?

METTS: Okay.

METTS: I got there every morning and like 730, maybe did some petty physical training and had lunch and then went home. That was.

METTS: It. Because it was it was it was like like, you know, a 73 to 4 job. Okay. You know, the only difference was.

METTS: I wore a uniform every day. Sometimes I would change clothes and catch the bus and, you know.

ROWELL: Go home. Did you commute from Milwaukee at that time or.

METTS: Yeah. Because. Because. Just then. Then, the unit was.

METTS: Closer.

METTS: So when.

METTS: When it relocated.

METTS: From Whitefish Bay to Richard Street Armory. It was, it was.

METTS: Closer.

METTS: Because then all I had to do was cause I lived on Herbert Street. We lived on Herbert Street. So then I had to do was like, you know, flop down to Holton, catch the number 14.

METTS: And write it all the way to the end of the line, get off the bus and walk down the block.

METTS: And I was at work.

ROWELL: Were you in your uniform when you would commute.

METTS: Yeah. Sometimes I would be in my uniform.

ROWELL: How do people react on the bus?

METTS: Like, you're in the military? Yes. What branch are you. I'm in the army, you know, all that kind of stuff. The same questions or the same questions over and over again. I can I can remember.

METTS: One instance when I went to the store and I was in uniform and there was a store called Subpoenas. And I go in there and he must have been Middle Eastern.

METTS: And then he said something about.

METTS: He said, it's just like this. You're in the army of Allah, just like that.

METTS: And I was like, Just give me my stuff and just can I just go? So, you know, you.

ROWELL: Didn't want to interact.

METTS: Yeah, Yeah. I was like, no, I don't. I don't want to interact.

METTS: So then it was like I made sure that I.

METTS: Just change clothes. And I came after that. Yeah.

ROWELL: Was that more because you were kind of not wanting to deal with it? You got it all the time and you were just tired in the morning. Or was it more that. I don't know. You wanted to keep that those parts of your life separate?

METTS: You know.

METTS: That was that was kind of when. There's a storm is breaking out. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, for someone.

METTS: To say that and I was in uniform, I was like, no, that's.

METTS: That's not cool, you know? And you're always told that you always have to conduct yourself and carry yourself in a in a respectable military manner.

ROWELL: Military bearing?

METTS: Yeah, military bearing. And it was like I did not want to say anything that would disgrace the uniform.

METTS: My uniform, myself. So I was like.

METTS: Can you can you just give me my.

METTS: Stuff so I can just go? Right? Yeah.

ROWELL: How did you feel about, you know, Desert Storm and the Gulf War at the time? Did you have feelings about that?

METTS: Do you know? Here's the thing. When? When that came out.

METTS: I was pregnant with Jordan.

METTS: So in in the stories.

METTS: Back then, what you heard was.

METTS: If you.

METTS: How can I say it? You would hear stories about women who would be called up after they had their their baby and all of that kind of stuff. And I think this basically was with those that were on active duty. Because I was National Guard at the time.

METTS: So it was like, well, I don't know if something like that would ever happen to me, you know, because, I mean, the guard, you know.

METTS: But yeah, I was throughout my entire career. I was fortunate to never have been called up for anything. But yeah, that was that was kind of scary to hear about that that being something that could happen.

ROWELL: Yeah.

METTS: But yeah, because I was like, you know, my mom would have to take care of my daughter for me while I'm gone. Yeah.

ROWELL: And part of the reason you wanted to stay local was to be with your family. Yeah. Is that correct? Right. And your mom specifically?

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: And so, actually, speaking of Jordan, so this was the time when you. You you were pregnant with your daughter. You had your daughter. Yeah. And that was in 91.

METTS: Yup.

METTS: Okay. Yeah. So May of.

METTS: 91. So.

METTS: So here I am, pregnant with Jordan.

METTS: And I remember when one commander is saying something.

METTS: And I didn't really like or.

METTS: Appreciate his line of questioning.

METTS: So I just basically said to him, I said because he was asking questions like, well, what are you going to do and how are you going to support Israel? You know, I was going to.

METTS: The kind of stuff, you know.

METTS: So I'm just looking at it as like I said, well, you know, sir, I said thank you for being concerned. You know, I said, but trust me, I'm able to take care of this baby. And I know the person who did this to me. It wasn't like I went to my friendly sperm bank and asked for withdrawal. I did. I told him just like that. I said, So don't worry. I got this under control. I can take care of this baby.

METTS: Wow.

METTS: And he turned. He turned red. Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. I'm surprised that you actually called him on his behalf.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: And so was. So you were a single mom at that point, and they knew that. So they were. Did was there a lot of kind of speculation or discussion of your personal life among your coworkers?

METTS: They thought that.

METTS: I had this romantic thing.

METTS: With someone a full time or their.

METTS: But but it was because when I when I announced I was pregnant, they thought he was a father.

METTS: And he was not a father.

METTS: But he was. He. I considered him to be a really good friend because he. He was there for Jordan and I. He would. He would come to the house, pick us up, Drop, drop. Help me drop Jordan off to the babysitter's house. You know, all that kind of stuff. So he was he was.

METTS: Good to us. He was good to us.

ROWELL: Yeah. He's a friend to you?

METTS: Yeah. He was good at it. And but he. I don't know. But, yeah, I think he.

METTS: Yeah.

METTS: I think he envisioned things.

ROWELL: Okay. So he had an idea in his mind as well. Maybe about.

METTS: The relationship.

ROWELL: That was diverged from yours.

METTS: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Thank you, Kate. Yes, he had. He had different ideas.

METTS: And I'm like, no, no. Right. But.

ROWELL: You know, a friendship nonetheless.

METTS: Yeah. Friendship nonetheless. Yeah.

ROWELL: And so you and your coworkers decided to speculate themselves about it?

METTS: Yes.

ROWELL: And did they do the same with any of their other your their coworkers? Or was it more the focus was on you?

METTS: I, I think it was just basically me because I was their only full time female then.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah.

METTS: Well but you know, but they, they, they did throw me a very.

METTS: Nice baby shower.

ROWELL: So can we talk about that, actually? And actually, for just for what? I think we'll pause just for time for the recorder and then we'll come right back. So this this concludes segment. One of the interview with Karen was on January 5th, 2023. This begins segment two of the interview with Karen. That's on January 5th, 2023. So we were discussing your daughter, Jordan, and speculation about your life among your coworkers, I think in the 57th floor artillery. So can you tell me a bit about the baby shower that you had in 1991?

METTS: Yes, the baby shower. My goodness. So the the baby shower was totally unexpected. And I remember the recruiter.

METTS: Her her name.

METTS: Was Deb Hottinger.

METTS: And she was.

METTS: Like.

METTS: Carrie.

METTS: Didn't they do a good job? And because I come in there and I was like, my goodness, look at this. I had like a stroller and a car seat. And. And I remember.

METTS: One of the one of the guys, he did like woodworking things, and he made.

METTS: Me like a like a coat hanger in the shape of a.

METTS: Bear. What was his name? KRAUS He met a sergeant. KRAUS He he made me that. And, you know.

METTS: It was it was just something else. Like a bunch of guys could put a baby shower together for me.

METTS: And it was. It was funny.

METTS: And I just I just cried. It was like, I hope they did a good job.

ROWELL: But I was pretty excited. Yeah. Did they decorate the office or what did they do?

METTS: No, no, I think they probably just they just had like some food or something like that. And, you know.

METTS: I. I did not expect it.

METTS: But it was. It was awesome what they did.

METTS: And to this day.

METTS: A day of high injury. Still talk about their care.

METTS: You remember the baby shower that.

METTS: They gave that was like. Yep. Yeah, it was. It was something else.

METTS: I never, never would have.

METTS: Expected a bunch of guys to put together a baby shower.

ROWELL: Yeah. So they were trying to be supportive.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: And then. So how long were you with the 57?

METTS: I was with the 57 from when I came on board in 88. Yeah, in 88. And then when did I leave?

ROWELL: The latest would have been 92. Yeah.

METTS: After? Yeah. Yeah, because I was. I was with them because they. They. My position went away. Okay. So. And that was when I ended up going to the 1/47 Aviation Battalion in Madison. So that had to be around.

METTS: Yeah, within I had to be around 92.

METTS: I think. Yeah.

ROWELL: Somewhere in 92 And in 88 you just checked. So yeah.

METTS: Refreshing your average to an.

ROWELL: 88. You transferred from the guard to the reserve.

METTS: Yes.

ROWELL: And so and but you were still did you remain with the 57th through that transition?

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. So okay, so, so from when I left for I listed from 86. 80. That was, that was Army Reserve. And then I went to National Guard. From that time, what was it, 88 all the way up until 2000. 2000? Yeah. 2001. Yeah. So, yeah, so I was with I was with the guard for like 13. I think it was like 13 years.

ROWELL: And in that time, you served with, like, three different units.

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: So 57th being the first.

METTS: So, 57. The 1/47 and 19. Yeah. And then company B 118. Yeah. And that was. That was the last unit.

ROWELL: All right, so then you. So you transferred. So your position was phased out? Were you made aware that was going to happen?

METTS: Yep. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so then there was. There was a recruiter that came and his name was James.

METTS: Collins or Jim Collins. And I still talk.

METTS: To Jim Collins to this day.

METTS: I spoke to him last night, as a matter of fact.

METTS: And he was the one who helped me make the decision to transfer over.

METTS: To the 1/47 to go to the 147.

ROWELL: Okay. So how did that how did that happen?

METTS: My goodness. Because I was like, I'm supposed to go to this unit in Madison. I said, and, you know, I don't I don't know. I don't know anything. You know. And he was like, it's a good unit. You know, I recruit up out of there or something like that. And I, I basically had to I had to learn. I had to get a driver's license. Okay. Because I didn't know. I didn't know how to drive or or something. And then I ended up carpooling. So it was it was me on there was Cindy Lawrence. And so it was me, Cindy Lorenson. And.

METTS: Man. This is.

METTS: And another guy. I can't think of his name. He was black. And? And we all worked out Simon. I can't remember his first name. The last name was sign or something. Simon was his name one of the things. And we would all take turns.

METTS: Carpooling.

METTS: Up to Madison. Because Cindy and Simon, they worked at headquarters and I worked with the 147. So then we would drive and they would drop me off at the 147, and then they would go right on up the road.

METTS: To headquarters up in Madison.

ROWELL: So you were commuting from Milwaukee to Madison Daily?

METTS: Yes.

ROWELL: Wow. And how long did you do that for?

METTS: My gosh. I did that up until the time I transferred to the company B 118.

ROWELL: So what was that like?

METTS: I just did that for a few years about was it two, three? I can't remember. But I commuted.

METTS: I commuted back and forth for a long time. It was a long time.

ROWELL: And that was when you had your still very pretty young daughter?

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: Pretty little. And kind of circling back around to that aspect of life, switching back and forth. But what was that experience like of. Of, you know, having her. Like, did you give birth in a military hospital?

METTS: Civilian hospital? A civilian.

METTS: Hospital. Okay. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. So that those military health benefits.

METTS: Yeah. As well.

ROWELL: And what was that like, being this young new parent with her and making the transition over to Madison? What was that like for you?

METTS: It was it it was it was.

METTS: Difficult because I depended upon my mom and my sister a lot. And if it weren't for them, I would not have been able to last as long as I did in the military. So it would it would be like I would give Jordan up, get her dressed and.

ROWELL: Get her.

METTS: To.

METTS: The babysitter's. And then I would go to work. And then. Because that. Because at one point along the way, I was still commuting back and forth to Madison, But I was doing it by myself because Cindy and Simon got got out. Okay. So I was still doing the commute by myself. So I would get up early in the morning. I would drop Jordan off. You know, get her up, drop her off at the babysitter's. And then I would drive myself to Madison to get there, you know, at, like, whatever time, 730, you know? And it was it was hard. It was it was really, really hard. And during that time when I was doing that commute, that was when Jordan was was starting to have, I would say, like medical challenges. And then I was going through these things with her, her father and his his then girlfriend.

METTS: Now his wife.

METTS: And they were making things quite difficult. And there was during that time when I had been diagnosed as clinically depressed. Okay. But I would tell the psychologist that I said I don't want to do marriage. I said, I can't do meds because I still have to take care of Jordan. So that was. That was that.

ROWELL: Were you able to get treatment for it for yourself in other ways like.

METTS: You did, though? I didn't. No, I didn't. I would see her. And because she would she she would she would help. I don't know if she was like something with like, a behavioral person, but I know that she worked out at Children's Hospital in the.

METTS: I forget what it was because I ended up working in that department.

METTS: But she was there and I would go and see her because she would she would help me with behavioral issues or something that you are now.

METTS: I was like, okay, whatever.

METTS: But yeah, that was that was when she said she said of sounds to me as if you're clinically depressed. You, you suffer, you know.

METTS: From clinical depression. I was like.

METTS: Yeah, thank you know, so, so, yeah. So I.

METTS: Visited her for a little bit and.

METTS: Then that was it. But no, I did I did not seek further help for the Depression or anything like that.

METTS: So basically it was like, you know, it was almost like.

METTS: I didn't have time to deal with it.

ROWELL: Yeah, the demands were just too many. And how were you kind of treated or received at work as as a parent and maybe as a single parent? I don't know if that made a difference to them at the time, but.

METTS: I was very supportive, especially when I was with the the 147 And the one incident had arose when Jordan's father failed to pick her up at the airport in Lansing, Michigan.

ROWELL: My goodness. And.

METTS: I had to go to Lansing, Michigan, to appear in front of a judge. Jordan was placed in secret protective custody. Yeah, because he failed to pick her up at the airport. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah.

METTS: You know, I get this phone call from airport security saying that they went by his house and no one was there. And. Since she was a minor that. They would place her, you know. In secret protective custody.

METTS: And I just hit the floor.

METTS: So I had to go to work and tell my boss what happened. And he was like, okay. Cheering He said, you know, do what you got to do. And that was that. So yeah, so it was me and my sister and this lady, Miss Katherine. So we're in the car driving over there and spending the night to appear in court in front of this judge. And I didn't know where Jordan was. All I know, she was in secret protective custody. And then I couldn't. My my attorney could not come to court because it was short notice. So there was this woman that was there. I guess she must have been Jordan's guardian ad litem, whatever it was. And then she says she says, Carrie, she said Staley is here with this woman. I see your partner. And she said, Are you okay with that?

METTS: I was like, Yeah, I'm okay with it, you know, just like that.

METTS: So we get there and I'm sitting up at a table up front. He and Paula sit and Staley and Paula sitting officer mother. And he's like, slumped in his chair like this. And I'm like, I don't know why you're slumped in your chair because you failed to pick Jordan up and because of you. This is where we are right now. All right. So the judge is talking and all of that kind of stuff. And then I'm like, Well, Your Honor, I said this was the last communication I had with him because I saved all the emails and also the kind of stuff, blah, blah, blah. And then I can distinctly remember Stan was talking, I'm looking at.

METTS: The judge, and I was like.

ROWELL: My goodness.

METTS: And he was like, I said, okay, you know. So, you know, did all of that. And then the.

METTS: Judge was like.

METTS: And who are you? My Paula, I'm Stan's girlfriend.

METTS: I was like, okay, whatever. And I was like, okay.

METTS: So. So they have basically the judge was like, he said, Do the two of you.

METTS: Are or are the two of you.

METTS: Familiar with the story about the woman in the Bible? And she had a child and the child had died and someone else was claiming there was a child. And then there was the thing about, you know, slicing the child.

METTS: And he was like.

METTS: And this. I remember this. And he was.

METTS: Like, he was like, the two of you need to learn how to communicate. And then he said. I'm going to relinquish custody. Back to you, Miss Matt. He said you can go and see Jordan. He said it's your decision as to whether or not, you know, you can take her home or you can have her remain here. I said.

METTS: I said, she can stay.

METTS: You know. And I let her I let her stay. I let her stay. But it was it it was like hell, you know, all that time it was it was always. She was. Yeah, it was always something. And I never I never forgot that.

METTS: That my.

METTS: His name was Major Greenwood. Kevin Greenwood. He was my commander then. And he was so supportive of me. And, you know, I would I will go lots of time. I will go into his.

METTS: Office and just cry and like.

METTS: I don't know what's going on. This is what's going on.

METTS: Blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay.

METTS: Okay, Mets were okay. You know, they called you by your first name in GA. Okay? Caring. You know, just do what you need to do. You know.

METTS: Like.

METTS: Staying overnight for, sleep apnea tests, you know, staying overnight for, you know, like, seizures, you know, all kind of stuff. You know, they were. I can honestly say that he was Colonel Greenwood Was. Was. He was. He was very supportive of me.

METTS: Some of what he said was was supportive of me because I went through a lot there.

METTS: Yeah. With them.

ROWELL: Yeah. Thank you for.

METTS: Sharing.

ROWELL: It's good to hear.

METTS: Yeah. That they.

ROWELL: Were supportive at.

METTS: Times.

ROWELL: And more about reaching the amount of time that we have today. But next time we'll come back to this topic, okay. If you're comfortable with it. And yes, talk also more about the exceptional family member program. Okay.

METTS: That's okay.

ROWELL: That material's okay. All right. So thank you very much for your time today. This this does an interview, but this aspect of the interview with Carrie Metz on January 5th, 2023.

METTS: Thank you.

ROWELL: Hearing today is January 9th, 2023. This is a continuation of the interview with Carrie, DMX, who served in the United States Army Reserve and United States Army National Guard from June 1986 to May 2013. This interview is being conducted by Kate Real in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, for the I'm Not Invisible Project and the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. So, Carrie, let's start off by talking about your work with the 1/47 Aviation Battalion. Okay.

METTS: And I work with the 1/47 Aviation Battalion. I was the operations NCO. So basically what I did.

METTS: Was I handled like.

METTS: Records and all I miss the most. I would say the entire part of my career service was basically, I would say, like.

METTS: Administrative personnel and administrative stuff.

METTS: So when I left the 57 Field Artillery Brigade and I ended up with the 1/47 Aviation Battalion, my, my Monday through Friday job was.

METTS: The operations sergeant.

METTS: So I was basically like working with, I can't even remember.

METTS: His name, but he was we called him Cliff. His first name was like, super, but we caught him. Cliff and I caught him like Clifford Cliff, the big Red Dog. So.

METTS: So I basically did, like.

METTS: You would call it.

METTS: Like, like a database for the soldiers that we're going for, like aviation classes and stuff like that. So I created, like, a database. I track them in this system called, like, eight hours. And, I would track them every part of the way. So like, when they submitted a packet, when they got their orders. When I sent the orders to the soldier and to his first line leadership, like his, first sergeant and his training officer, his training and seal, something like that. So then I. I tracked it and then I will put it, like, out on a bulletin board. And then I would also give one to each separate company so that they would know. So if they like, if they would need like a memorandum to give to their job or for school saying, you know, Private Joe Snuffy has come up with orders, you know, at this location, and he will be, you know, gone from this time to this time. And please excuse him or let him go. So that was basically what I did. That was my Monday through Friday. Because when you're your you have like your your Monday through Friday job and then you have like what you do on like the drill weekends. So on a drill weekends like, you know, the Saturday and Sunday part, I was a, an aviation operations specialist. So just the big fancy word for like, working in, like, a control tower. So I. I didn't like that job.

METTS: I didn't like that job.

METTS: The, the personnel were cool because basically, basically, it was just like a bunch of.

METTS: I would call a male. He was in a green jumpsuit, but, I didn't, I, I really, I really did not like that job, so I didn't, I did not like being an aviation operations specialist. I did not like being a medic. I did not. The only jobs that I really enjoyed was the 71 Lima stuff, because I was like the type of.

METTS: Because I like, I like typing and stuff. I like that part.

METTS: And the senior human resources sergeant and the personnel, administrative NCO, anything that was admin and personnel.

METTS: I really like that the most.

METTS: Everything else.

METTS: I hated it. You know, I did it because of course I had to, but I did not.

METTS: I did not like it.

METTS: When I was with the 147. I was also the the facility manager so people would want to rent out our facility. So they would contact me and I would get everything ready for that. And those were things that you would called like additional duty. So everyone had you always had like an additional duty that you had to do. So that was one of my additional duties. So that was that one was okay. But, you know, just doing the the flight operations stuff, I didn't like that at all.

ROWELL: Can you tell me when you served as a medic, what what time was that?

METTS: So I was I was I was a medic with the company B 118, so. I was with them, wherever it, whatever that medical to dash was it. But I was, I was with them for a couple of years and did not.

METTS: Did not like being a medic.

ROWELL: Can you talk about that. What what do you like about it?

METTS: So we we went to NTC, the National Training Center down at Fort Irwin, California. So that's basically like a big training site. And we went there and, I, I don't like needles, so I had to give this one soldier a shot. And I cried like the entire time. And then they were like, That's what's wrong.

METTS: I was like, I'm so sorry. I said, I don't want to.

METTS: Do this to you. I'm so sorry. And it was like, you know, like, can you hurry up? Can you, like, you know, get it over and done with? And then I was like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And then, like, why are you.

METTS: Being, like, so gentle? So because I don't like shots. I said, I don't like doing I don't like getting them. So I don't I'm not going to like doing it. But I like the part where soldiers would come in on sitcom and I would take their information down and all, and I like that admin part, but I did not like the part about giving them.

METTS: Shots and all that other kind of stuff.

METTS: I did not. I did not like that. I did not like touching. Yeah. You know, there was some really, like, gross stuff.

METTS: And it was like, I can't.

METTS: I can't deal with that. There was some other things that I had seen, Like there was this one soldier in I think he was from Louisiana and he had hepatitis and he carried in and he was diabetic.

METTS: And he carried all of his little stuff in one of those igloo lunch.

METTS: Boxes. So I'm looking at him like, Why are you even down here? I said, You shouldn't even be down here for they told me that I had to go. I had to come down here. I was like I.

METTS: Said, I was.

METTS: Like, no. Then there was this one female soldier and she had like a really it was she had a hard time. So it was basically like, I don't know if she had like recently miscarried and then her husband had been diagnosed with cancer. So she was she was down here out here in the wilderness. And, you know, they found her like huddled underneath a sink in the bathroom. And then they had to drive her to, like San Diego to get to get, like, medical care. And and I was like, I can not I cannot deal with this. It was like, I can't. I can't. It's like I would rather handle pieces of paper and have to change typewriter ribbons and write out stuff. I can't deal with this human aspect of, you know, the the medical field. You know, it was it was it was I think I was down there for like three weeks.

METTS: I couldn't wait to come back home.

METTS: I could not wait. I could not.

ROWELL: Could not. And so that medical was assigned to you. I'm guessing you didn't you didn't select it.

METTS: No. No. Okay. Because when you're when you're your what they call it, you know, active guard, reserve you. If you don't.

METTS: Already hold that skill, then you have to become trained to be qualified for this skill. So I had to go.

METTS: And become a medic, which.

ROWELL: Yeah. Not a fond memory that are fond memory. And then can we talk about the aviation part? When you were working in the tower. Can you. Can you talk about what the job entail and when? What? Around what time you were doing that?

METTS: Okay, So.

METTS: Then was I doing that?

METTS: I don't know. But I'll tell you. I'll tell you what what.

METTS: I was what I was doing.

METTS: So when a drew we can we had to go over to like kind of over to like another.

METTS: Another building over there.

METTS: And, we followed the flight plan, so the, it was a Black Hawk unit, so the pilots, they would have to come in and then they would have to get grieved, they would submit their, their flight plans and then we would have to follow them to make sure that they adhered to the flight plan, because if they didn't, then we had to call like the state aviation officer and just say something like, hey, you know, this flight did not come back and you might have to send somebody up to do.

METTS: Like a search for them.

METTS: Well, a lot of times I would say a lot of times, but sometimes they would, we stopped off at so and so and so and so like, like they would stop over at what was that? I don't know if it was kind of fort, Fort Campbell or something, I don't know. But some place they would stop off it. And there was a restaurant called The Bluff. So sometimes they would stop over there and then they would have lunch and then they would come back. But they would come back, like just in time before you would have to call the state.

METTS: Aviation officer or, you know, to to send like somebody out to look for.

METTS: And we would be.

METTS: Mad because it's like we don't know where they are.

METTS: And all this. So we would be worried.

METTS: So yeah, but yeah, I always kind of like the idea was in a green jumpsuit. Yeah.

ROWELL: yeah. And was anyone ever reprimanded for that or not?

METTS: That I.

ROWELL: Just accepted.

METTS: Yeah. So it was like they knew. They knew how, how far to go.

METTS: But. Yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah, yeah. Is there any are there any other memories that that stand out to you from that, that period of time. From that period.

METTS: Time.

METTS: There was there was a husband and wife team and they were pilots.

METTS: And I remember that, they would bring their daughter around. So, you know, when, you know, it was basically like we saw her when she was.

METTS: Pregnant, she would bring the baby around, everything like that.

METTS: And I kept saying something to the little girl and she had repeated it to her dad. And the mom said, she got that from Max. And she came back and told me and I just fell out laughing. I cannot remember what it was in this day. But she remembered it. She repeated it like verbatim, and they, like fell out laughing.

METTS: Like she got that from this.

METTS: She heard Matt say that. And, you know, I know what I would tell her. I would tell her to say.

METTS: It and she wouldn't say it, but yeah, but then she remember it. Yeah. Yeah. So that.

METTS: One. No, that was, that was good. So yeah.

METTS: So I did have some I did have some good memories. From there. I met my one bestie, Laurie. Gabe met Laurie when she was 18 and Laurie was a supply sergeant and still keep in contact with Laurie today. And what else? General Joni Mitchell. She was like the first female tag, I think it was for the state of Wisconsin, for the National Guard. And she is first and first people like Native American. So I.

METTS: Remembered remembered her when she, when she was.

METTS: Captain, you know, Joni And then she made it all the way up to, to be a star or have some star. So that was, that was really nice. She, she, she was cool then. She's still cool now.

METTS: So. Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. It meant a lot to you to see that progression in her.

METTS: Yes. Yeah, yeah. So it was, it was her.

METTS: And there was another female.

METTS: Marsha Anderson. She. She works, you know?

METTS: Yeah.

METTS: So Marsha Anderson was another female. She was my, my s one officer in the Army Reserve, and it was just nice to see her progress and how to get her started when she took over command down at, I think, Human Resources. HRC So that was really nice. So just, just for me to have served with them and under them.

METTS: That was that was awesome. Yeah.

ROWELL: Is there anyone else that stands out to. You in your memory that you felt was kind of either formative in your career or do you just develop a bond with them?

METTS: There was a young African-American woman and I cannot remember her name, but Irish. Her first name was Irish, and she worked at Tag. And she was really nice. But she didn't she didn't stay there long. Who else? There was. There was Roxane and Shirley. When I was with the 147, there was Jim Collins and Laurie Yeager and. Jeff Rubinstein, I think. Jeffrey. Jeff. You know.

METTS: Who else? Cliff.

METTS: Cliff. It was funny because he you know, he would. He would. He would talk. He would talk like. Like he was from the Upper Peninsula. So he would say stuff like, we never knew his son's name. His son. He always referred to him as Doughboy. So I say, yeah, Doughboy. I was like, Cliff, what's your son like? Boy. And he would always hold a soda like this. But I mean, when he would laugh, you would like. That's why he was so funny. I loved Cliff. I love Cliff. Called him Doughboy.

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: And he was good to work under as well.

METTS: Yeah. And I worked with Cliff. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. And so, Shelley, can you tell me about meeting her when you were with the 147?

METTS: Yes. So Shelley and Roxann. They were both in, like, the. The admin personnel.

METTS: Admin in sales. So.

METTS: I think Shelley was the, the the section in C also she was like in charge of it. And then there was Roxy. So Roxy and Roxanne was a type of person where she was like, very, very social. Everybody, everybody. Roxy Schelling was the type of person where she was like, I'm going to call you out on your crap and I'm going to tell you about it. And that's that.

METTS: So, you know, you had these two different.

METTS: Personalities, but they were they were really.

METTS: Nice. They were. They were nice. I, I like them a lot.

ROWELL: And, how was that working environment like for, you know, these, you as a, as a female NCO and also your, your friends in that role.

METTS: You know, it was, it was nice. It was nice. Just I didn't like to drive. I did not like to drive, you know, hour and a half of the every day. But just to see them. I really enjoyed working with them. And I would say the same thing with the soldiers. I only saw them like once a month. And, I was always excited to see them because it was like, okay, what did you do? How did things go when, you know, last year you talked about this. Did you ever get that taken care of? How did that work out for you? You know, things like that. So and then, of course, you always you would always have your your your soldiers who would really, really work you. And I had I was put in charge of one soldier and his name was Randy. And Randy was Randy was young. And I remember our section sergeant, he said he said, let someone put you in charge of Randy. You know, you over Randy. I was like, why to why? I said, what did I do? You What did I do, you ask? I said, Why? He was like, You can do it. I know you can do it. So Randy was young. He was like 18. Randy was it was like he just had all of this energy and everything. And I can remember one time.

METTS: I remember one time when.

METTS: When we had hooked up with our active duty counterpart and we I think we went out to do we go out to California.

METTS: Again.

METTS: Another unit, I think. I think we went to California. And Randy had eaten all of these Emery's these meal ready to eat. Right. And we had told Randy, go eat all Randy, go. And I think Randy must've eaten about and I can't remember Randy's last name to this day. I think Randy must have had.

METTS: Like, 5 or 6 memories. Then I was high because then he got sick and I was mad.

METTS: Because I remember that about Andy. And then I remember one time where Randy was really he was really sad and he was really depressed. And I think his mom called me or something, and she was really concerned. I don't know if if Randy had had suicidal ideation or something like that, but I had to I had to give him in touch with the chaplain. And I told him I said, I don't know what's going on. I said, What I need for you to talk to somebody is I need.

METTS: You to talk to this chaplain.

METTS: So because your mom was worried, I said, and I worry, too, you know, and it was it was like everybody got on him about stuff. But, you know, he he straightened out. He. He left. He left the Army Guard and he went over to the Air National Guard. And he he had he had met some young woman. And I was like, okay, Randy. I said, are you sure you're ready for this?

METTS: You know, all this kind of stuff.

METTS: And, and he he had got back in touch with me some years later. And he had told me and he had gotten himself together in a young lady had married. They had, you know, some children and stuff like that. And he had gotten back in touch with me and he just said, I wanted to tell you, thank you, you know, for believing in me and for being there for me. And that that made me feel so good just to hear that he had matured and that he had changed. And I was like, I'm just glad that you found somebody for you. You know? I said, Keep in touch. And and of course, you know, you fall out of touch with people. So that was that was good.

METTS: He was he was another highlight of the other one. 47. So you.

ROWELL: Did you have a, did you often have, kind of encounters with that interpersonal side of the of the H.R. positions that you were working?

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, they would they would.

METTS: Come and talk to you about things, and I don't.

METTS: Know if it was because.

METTS: People just thought that they could come and talk to me.

METTS: Or whatever. I don't.

METTS: Know. But, I my thing was to always treat someone the way that I wanted to be treated, because I never knew when there could be a flip side where they, you know, the positions could be in reverse. And I always wanted to make sure that I treated that person nice and well and with respect so that in the event that that would happen, they would remember that I had treated them.

METTS: With some kindness and respect.

METTS: I'm pretty sure that if anyone would look at this interview, they'd probably say like, Yeah, that's I remember you yelling at me, you know? So I'm pretty sure. And it's like, Yeah, you're right. And I did. And it was probably because it was something that I told you to do that you didn't do. So, yeah.

ROWELL: So was there a lot of that. Was there a lot of, you know, you giving instructions or. Yes. And people disregarding.

METTS: Yes.

ROWELL: Was it more of the younger.

METTS: Some. Yeah. Or Yeah. Some of it. Some of it was like the younger enlisted like so when, when I, when I left the, the 147 and I went over to the Army Reserve at my, and my last, my last duty station which was with the drill sergeant unit, I had some young people in there and they just did not want to listen and did not want to do right. I had two individuals that vacated their, their post and it's like, no, no, no, no. So, and this, this was, this.

METTS: Was a big deal because it was a drill weekend.

METTS: There was a general on the post and they were supposed to be at the gate and nobody was at the gate. So when.

METTS: When there was time for them to be relieved.

METTS: They had left and I didn't know where they were. So I was their section NCO. And so then I was like, okay, so like, what happened to you? And she said she said, Well, sir, Strong said, We believe. I said, okay. I said, Is Sergeant Strong your section in seal? No, I said, So why are you listening to em? Well, he said, We believe he was said, I don't care. I said, he is not responsible for us and I'm the one that's responsible for you. I said, because of what you did, I said, I can't cover for you. I said, Because what you did, you abandoned your post.

METTS: There was a general on the post and no one.

METTS: Was there at the gate. Anyone could have just come in on the gate, come in on the post, and there was no one there. So she got mad and she was kind of like a.

METTS: Bad influence on this one male soldier because he was a transfer.

METTS: And so I gave them both views. So they they were unsatisfactory for the last part of the day for that Sunday. So she got pissed because that meant that she didn't.

METTS: She didn't get paid. She didn't get paid for those last four hours. So I was like, I'm sorry.

METTS: And so then when you when you get a you.

METTS: That's an unfavorable action. So then it kind of like it trickles down. So like she couldn't she couldn't get like tuition assistance or something like that. So it was like, I'm sorry, but that's, that's you. So she didn't like my decision. So then she went to the first.

METTS: Sergeant or two.

METTS: To our. To our, our area, first sergeant, our section, first sergeant. And he was like, that's what happened. And I told him, I said, Top. I said, This is what she did. I said, I couldn't cover for her for that. I said, she left the post. I said, And that's not cool. I said, And as a result I said, I'm being looked at, so I have to say something. And then I said, I went over and talk to Armstrong. I said, I said, What made you sit up here and think that you could tell to my people that they could leave without discussing? Well, I said, That's not up to you. I said, You're not there, Sergeant. You're not. A first time leader. I said, I and I said I wouldn't do anything like that to you. I said, So you don't do anything like that to me. I said, We have a problem with somebody in my section. Whatever I say, you can you talk to me about it? I said, But you don't sit up there and tell them that they can leave.

METTS: So yeah.

METTS: So yeah, it was him and it was her.

METTS: And then it was another young guy who who wanted to put in a promotion package to get promoted and he didn't do the work.

METTS: Then there were the two individuals that I just told you about.

METTS: And the command sergeant was like, Are you going to put private or do you want to put so-and-so and so-and-so in for a promotion? What? I said no. I said no.

METTS: I mean, he said, Why not ask? Because I wouldn't want that.

METTS: Someone with me as an NCO. I said, They do not want to do anything. I said they, they, they don't volunteer for things. I said they want to do the least, but want to reap the most. I said, And I'm not going to do it because it would make him look good. Be like, okay. You know, we had a junior promotion board and, you know, ten, ten junior soldiers to Air force or, you know, submitted their packet. And this was how many that ended up being successful in front of the board. So I was like, No, no, I'm not, I'm not really. And then the one guy, someone the person that was going to replace me when it was time for me to retire, she put his package together. And so when he came back from school because he went away to drill sergeant school, so he came back and I told him and I said, I said, Come here, I want to talk to you. Then I said, You better thank Staff Sergeant Adams for putting your package together because she was the one who was instrumental in getting you promoted. I said, Because I said no, because you did not come back and put your package together. I said, Now you're an age where you are an E-5. You are sergeant now you are a staff sergeant. So you didn't put your own package together. I said, So how can you help someone else get promoted when you don't even know the process yourself? I said there's more to be promoted. Just, you know, a little extra, a little Chevron under you, under your Little Rock or whatever it is. I said, I hope you're ready to work for that. I said, Because they're going to work you for that little extra money. I said, So I hope you're ready and I hope you're prepared. I said, But you need to go to your staff sergeant. And I was thinking, I said, You can get out of my face. And I did. I told him just like that. I said, because I'm a little bit upset with you. Some very disappointed, I said, because that shows to me that you're not ready for the responsibility. I said, You just want the rank. I said, You don't want the work that is associated with it. I said, So I hope you're ready to work.

ROWELL: Did you feel that other interviews or officers were respectful of your judgment in these cases? Yeah.

METTS: I think so. I think so. Because when when when I when I ended up with this with this other unit, the senior human resources sergeant.

METTS: She would put together.

METTS: All of their promotion packets.

METTS: She put together all of their promotions.

METTS: So if there were like 5 or 10 people that.

METTS: Were eligible for promotion.

METTS: She was the one who sat down and put their packets together to get promoted. And I told the commander said, Sir, I'm not doing it.

ROWELL: Was that procedure was that common or.

METTS: I think it was for her. What I told him, I said, Sir, I said, I can't. I said, I won't. I won't do that. I said, because this is their career. I said, And they need to know how to put a package together when, when, when I came over, when I think when I was in the guard and when I was in the reserve, I think I think they did then, you know, like, well there's not a lad or something like that. I know that they did it then because I think someone, someone had put together my packet for me when I, when I left the National Guard, it came over to the Army Reserves because I said, Miss, aren't you getting promotion back? And I said, No. They said, Why? I said, Because I'm not ready. I said, I don't want to be promoted because I know the responsibility. I said, I said, I'm not ready. I said, I don't I don't want to be promoted.

METTS: And she put together my packet and I was like.

METTS: Well, I'm not going to get promoted. And I got promoted. And I was like, my gosh. Because I didn't I didn't want it. I figured, I'm not I'm not ready for this. But she must have seen something in me that I didn't, but I was just deathly afraid of the responsibility. That comes with a promotion. I wasn't I wasn't too keen on the money aspect of it because it's not like you get a whole heck of a lot of money. It was just the responsibility and I felt that I.

METTS: Was not prepared for that.

ROWELL: And what gave you that impression? Where did that fear come from for you?

METTS: Probably because when I was in the National Guard, I had been like an E-4 for so long. I was a specialist for so long. And then when I got over to the Army Reserve and, the, the, admin NCO, she looked over my back and she said, she said, Why aren't you in E-5? Why aren't you a sergeant or staff? So she said he or she said, You've been in for so long. She said you really, you really could be higher than that. I said, Nope.

METTS: Nobody got to promote me.

METTS: And I said I was never in in in a right position. I was never in a unique position to get promoted. But she did.

METTS: She she put together.

METTS: She put together my my packet.

METTS: And. I doubt for a minute.

ROWELL: Did you have any feeling of whether there is intentionality to that, that you were getting passed over or was it just no one talks to?

METTS: I, I think maybe that I thought maybe there could have been some intentionality in it, but, and it was like no one. No one prepared me. No one, you know, took time out to cultivate me, to get promoted or prepared me for or anything like that. So, you know, I was like, Fine, I don't, I don't want it. I'm not looking for it, you know, because it was like.

METTS: I'm not I'm not looking for that responsibility at the time.

METTS: So it was it was like I had I had finally gotten promoted from from E four to if when I was with the 147. So I got promoted from staff from specialist to sergeant. And then when I went when I left the National Guard and I went to the Army Reserve, I think that's when I got promoted from sergeant to the staff sergeant and then to Sergeant first class.

METTS: And my last.

METTS: Rank when I.

METTS: Left, when I retired. So, so, yeah.

METTS: And I.

METTS: And you know, I.

METTS: Would, I would put a package together or something like that or someone would help me or put my package.

METTS: Together for me. And I'm thinking.

METTS: You know what, I'm not going to get promoted. And then it was basically like when the list came down and I was on it, I was like, my gosh, I, I got promoted, you know? And when I did get promoted, I had, I had my mom and Jordan was there.

METTS: And I think my niece was I think my sister probably had to work or something.

METTS: And they, they paid me. So that was that was a big deal for me. And even when I got promoted to Sergeant First Class E7, that that was a big thing too, because I never, ever, ever thought that I would make it to E7. I never did. I never did it. And when when I got promoted to 87 to a Sergeant first class, I somehow felt that. I was still a staff sergeant when I was still in E-6, and I don't know, I don't know why, but that was that was that was just how I felt. But when when I was a seven, in the Army Reserve. I. I liked what I did. And there was.

METTS: There was a whole bunch of us.

METTS: When I was in HHC 84 Division. That's what it was in headquarters, the headquarters of the 84 division.

ROWELL: So it was the last unit you served with?

METTS: That was. Yeah, it was that, yeah, that one. And then three, two, three, three, four. And so, yeah. So those, those were my last two Army Reserve units that I was with. But.

METTS: But when, when I, when I was with.

METTS: HHC, it was me.

METTS: Rita Watson that Sharon's the Kodiak and.

METTS: Katie I can't remember Katie's.

METTS: Last night. So we were, we were the, the pack, the Personnel Administration Center, so we were the pack and we.

METTS: We had a blast.

METTS: We was, we were kind of so it would be so funny because how, how the how our space was set up.

METTS: I mean, it was just our space. And then we had like these little partitions that were yay high.

METTS: So on the other side and on the side.

METTS: Her name was Master Sergeant Becky Berg.

METTS: How did they keep you this high? So when you were cut up, we would laugh. So we say, my God, so loud and conscious.

METTS: And they knew where she was.

METTS: She would stand up on a chair and go to practice. Tell us, would you guys stand by wall? And we would have like such a good time. And it was good. It was good.

ROWELL: So yeah, really good relationships.

METTS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was. It was good. It was good.

METTS: It was good. I liked. I liked. I liked HHC The fourth Division when I was in the Reserves, I loved them. And then the drill sergeant unit was, was good.

METTS: They were okay too.

METTS: But I think I really, I liked, I like to see the best and. And the drill sergeant, you know. Okay.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. Have some good times with that too. Yeah.

ROWELL: So when you were in the 147. Going back. Going back, back, back, back to. How long did you work there for? About. Do you remember? Ooh.

METTS: I was with the 147. I would say maybe about two years. Think. I think about two years. And then from there, that's when I went to Company B 180 in Waukesha because. I don't. I can't remember. I can't remember where I live. I think it may have been something like I needed I needed someplace to be closer to home. Because when I was with when I was with the 147, I think that was when all of Jordan's medical challenges or issues started to spring forth. And, I was, I was tired of that commute, you know, especially during the winter. So I was commuting by myself. And then there was this they had this one thing where. Some. Somebody had to work late, you know, from like 1 p.m. to 9 p.m. And I would have to I would have to get up and get dressed and drive up to Madison to sit there in that armory until 9 p.m. in case some recruiter wanted to come by or something like that. And I would have to sit there and then I would have to drive all the way back to Milwaukee. And I sometimes would not get home to 11 or 1130 and then go to sleep and then have to get up early in the morning to get to work, you know, to be there like seven, 730. Yeah. So that, that got kind of old. Quick.

ROWELL: Yeah. So I'm talking about your daughter's kind of experience. So she qualified for the exceptional family member program.

METTS: There, correct?

ROWELL: Can you describe what that is?

METTS: Okay. So the exceptional family member program where EFP, it's a program where, soldiers have family members that require like, I would say like extracare or.

METTS: Something like that. So.

METTS: In Jordan's case, she had a seizure disability, so Jordan had a seizure disability. And, because of that, she qualified.

METTS: For an exceptional family member program.

METTS: So when you have someone in the exceptional family member program where you end up being stationed, it's supposed to provide you with access to medical facilities and educational facilities for your dependent. So that's that's how that went. And it, it got pretty, pretty crucial when, when Jordan had um [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]. So, you know, it was and another. I see. And like facetiously in a joking manner, it was like, so they go in. [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]. So that was that was that. So the the surgery was successful. Jordan has not had any seizures since then, and that was what.

METTS: Qualified her for the exceptional family member program as well, because.

METTS: She had you know, she had she had to have medical follow up medical care. So that was that was that. But, being with Jordan and being in the EFP, that that did not that did not save me from not being transferred. Okay. So. And that was, that wasn't, that wasn't until later when I was at my last duty station. So, yeah, because that was when the surgery took place. And, yeah, but no, when I was with the 147 and all of this, all of this stuff started happening with Jordan. And it was like when she was maybe three because Jordan was born in 91, so maybe like 94 or something like that. You know, she would, she would walk and she would flap over like a little ragdoll. She had like, a little, you know, like a little kiddy table with two chairs. She would. She would put a cup down and she would miss the table. You know, so it was all this stuff. So I took her into Children's Hospital where we spent, like, all day. It was. It was in December. We spent all day there. [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX] It was. It was so bad and I felt so bad that I couldn't I couldn't be in the room with her. And so then they did that and then they did an MRI. And that was when I discovered. [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX].

METTS: So I'm sitting up here. Here, like, freaking out.

METTS: Like, how could that be? I didn't smoke. I didn't do drugs. I didn't drink because I was still in the military when I was pregnant with her. I just happened to be they were like, you know, it was just a freak accident and blah, blah, blah, blah. So then it was like we went from that and then and then she had chicken pox. So at the daycare facility, this lady. This lady still brought her her child into the daycare facility and Jordan was exposed to chickenpox. And as a result of that, she had suffered from [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]. So then it was like she had like, swollen up and all this kind of stuff. I didn't know. I didn't know what was happening. So that was that. And then it was like, then only what else was it? Then I found out that she had [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]. And it was almost like every time I would take her to the doctor, I would say to the doctor, I said, okay. I said, So what is it today? I said, Because I know you're going to you're going to find some. He said, Well, you have. He said, you have a sense of humor about this. I said, Because I have no other choice. I said, because I've been crying a lot. I said, if I don't, I said, then I would sit here and I would cry. So then it was that. And then. And then she then she had her tonsils and adenoids taken out. And then after that it was like she would we would be somewhere and she would, like, run off. And I guess that was her having a seizure. I didn't know that it was seizure then. So. So then they didn't know if it was.

METTS: Gosh. What is it? I can't.

METTS: Even. I can't even think. Think of the word for it.

ROWELL: But there's some ambiguity about her condition.

METTS: Yeah. And I can't.

ROWELL: I can't think.

METTS: Yeah, I can't remember what they.

METTS: What they called it. I think it starts with it would eat. But anyway, they, they couldn't tell me what it was, but then they were like, well, we don't know if if her seizures are grandma or Patty mom. They couldn't tell me that. So we went, we went through that then. Then she had like sleep apnea. She had a sleep disorder. Then when she was like eight, she had [XXXXXXXXXXXXX]. So it was like I went.

METTS: Through all.

METTS: Of these things. Jordan's father and I, we were we were not together. She. So we would we would go to these we would go to the doctor's appointments at a children's hospital. And then he would call out there and he would change the doctor's appointments to fit his schedule without consulting, without consulting me. And it got to the point where when there was a doctor's appointment, it would be me, the the the attending physician, the nurse, the social worker, Stanley and his girlfriend. All of us. Wow. Whereas whomever I was dating at the time, they were never there because I figured that would be rude and disrespectful to him as sure as Father. Because whomever I was seeing, he had no no say so in that sense. But he would bring her along to all of these appointments. That whole medical situation. And then me driving back and forth to Madison and me trying to go to school and all this other kind of stuff. It had gotten so bad, so bad that at one point I was driving home from Madison and I had really contemplated just like, you just just drive off this, this just drive off, you know, everything would be cool, you know, whereby anything just just drive off, you know, you'll be okay. You know, just. You can't handle any more. Okay?

METTS: Just. Just drive.

METTS: Just drive.

METTS: Off. If you can just drive off right now.

METTS: Just drive off. And I was like, No, because if you do that, I'm going to take care of you. And, you know, so. So I didn't I didn't do that. I had lost all of this weight to where I could. I looked like someone had ran across my sister. And they had they had questioned her. They had asked her if I was smoking because that's how that's how much weight I lost. I was like from a zero to a two because of what was going on with Jordan, all because of him. And that that that time that coincided with him not picking Jordan up from the airport and and all of that kind of stuff. So it was it was all all of this stuff, me being told that it was my fault by his his girlfriend then now I am, you know, that that everything about Jordan was was my fault. It was all of.

METTS: That was my fault. Yeah. Yeah, it was.

METTS: It was bad. It was bad. It was bad. I could not wait until Jordan turned 18.

METTS: Because then I wouldn't.

METTS: I didn't have to deal with him or her anymore. Yeah, it was. It was bad.

ROWELL: And so the program did it. Was there any were there any provisions that allowed you to take any take time if you needed it to attend to her care? Was there any provision in there for that or was that more negotiated between.

METTS: You and that was more or less negotiated with with the commander, Like like, for example, when Jordan had and Jordan had her her surgery, I was I was out of the office from. September. Like September 30th, September 31st up until like November 5th. So I was I had I had depleted like all of my leaves. But then there was, there was the, brigade personnel NCO. Sergeant First Class Charles. And, I think I might have his last name in my phone. But he was the one who made it possible for me to. Come in. Like a couple of days during the week so that I wouldn't burn up all of my leave. So that was I am grateful to him. Otherwise somebody else was like, Well, if that's what she did, then that's that's her, you know, she can burn up all the relief she wants to. So, you know. And I had I had somebody that was understanding and empathetic. So and and and I appreciate him to this day. So that was that. And and what was what was what was kind of funny about that was my workstation, my desk. It was always a hot mess. I had junk everywhere on my desk, my desk. You know, you talk about like clutter. My desk looked like a bomb had hit it. So I didn't tell my soldiers what was going on. But they came into the office when I was when I was gone. I think they would come in like during the day or whatever it was, and they would come and see me and my desk was like spotless. Everything was in place. And they thought that I was gone. They thought that I was gone. Max, are you leaving? No, no, no, no, no. Let's go. So I told him what was going on. I was going. You're coming back, right? I was like, Yeah, I'll be back. So, yeah, because they know something's happening. They knew this something was happening because they knew that my desk was always a hot mess. It was always junky. And that that that kind of touched me for them to to think about me that way. And, and then I would, I would come in, I would come in on a real weekend. So. Homeless. How's your daughter? She's doing good, you know, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, you're coming back, right? Yes, I'll be back. And, you know, all that kind of stuff. So that that made me feel really good because I just thought, you know, I don't care. I'm just somebody here, you know? But that that made me that made me feel really good. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. But but yeah, yeah, that was. That was not enough to save me because when they found me fit for duty, then that was when I got the phone call that it was time for me to to leave.

ROWELL: And that was a number of years later. And so. So next you went to the 1/18 medical.

METTS: Yeah. So when when I left, when I left the 147, I went to accompany me When? 18th in Waukesha. The medical unit. Yeah. Did not, did not like that.

ROWELL: And that was for how many years.

METTS: I think I was also there for about maybe two years. Yeah. And then that was, that was my last duty assignment, ADR and then I got out. Yeah. So yes, when I was there, that was no, it wasn't too much fun either.

ROWELL: Yeah. Yeah. So let's, let's, we'll talk about that if you're okay.

METTS: Okay. I'm cool with that.

ROWELL: So first, do we want to cover just the basics of your day to day responsibilities there and how those changed a little bit, what your position was and what you were in because at the time.

METTS: Okay, so when I was there, I think I was like the, I was the, the, the training NCO. So and it was a medical unit. So I was responsible for making sure that everybody was put into schools for their medical employees. And then I kept track of that. And then I also had to keep I don't know what they call them. I don't know if you were kind of like in OS binders or military occupational skill binder, but there were binders that I was responsible for, for each medical skill that our unit had. So if it was like a combat medic, so I was responsible for maintaining all the stuff for that, that binder and scale. There was someone that was like a medical supply NCO. It was that person. So I was responsible for all of that stuff. So, and it had just gotten to the point. And then, and then on the weekends I was the medic, which I hated. And it had just gotten to the point where I couldn't do it anymore. Like our, our, our company commanders would have meetings with our brigade commanders, so they had to put together these slides. So the, the higher up would, would send like, like a format of the slide of what this information you had to put in there. So I would put this information in these slides and I would send it to the commander. Okay, sir, this is the information that I have so far. Can you look this over and make sure that that is right, that that that it meets your standard and what we have to do. So I'm emailing him these slides to his civilian job and I guess his his civilian boss sees him doing this military stuff that he's not supposed to be doing. So he gets called out about it. So that intern and I think I think it was all a set up. I think I really think it was. And that's just me. So then, so it was like the, the next day after excuse me, after they had this breathing briefing, the, the commander comes in and he was like, okay, stammers come with me to office. And I was like, okay, sir. And then he was like, okay, I'm counseling you for this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, okay, sir. Let me make sure that I'm getting this right. I said, So I'm being canceled because I sent you the slides for you to review and your boss comes in and he sees you reviewing these slides. So he counseled you. So you in turn, you're counseling me? He said, Yeah. I said, okay. Okay. As an open casket. He leaves and then the command sergeant major comes in. I said, good morning, Commencement. Just let me guess. I said, You're here to counsel. Me too, right? He said, Yeah. I said, okay. So then followed him into the.

ROWELL: Commander's office.

METTS: And he counsels me and then he says, and you need to have these books together and blah blah. And if they're not together by this terrible order, then you're going to be terminated. And honestly, that kind of stuff, right? I said, okay. I said, Well, how about this command Sergeant Major? I said, How about I make your job a little bit easier for you? I said, How about I turn in my resignation, effective, you know, in about two weeks or whatever. I said, How about that? And he he was surprised. He just looked at I said, you know, I said, I'm not. I said, no, I'm not, I'm not. So then because he was like he was like, and Captain So-and-so, the training officer, he says that he never gets all of your training schedules. He says that he never gets all of your after action report from during week. And I said, Well, that's funny cause our major say because I sent it to him and I also send it to the deputy commander. I said, and the deputy commander has never said to me that he's never received as. So I don't understand how the training officer can say that he's not receiving them. I said, But that's okay. I said, I understand. I said, What? You have my resignation by the end of the day.

ROWELL: And that's what you did.

METTS: And that's what I did. So my resignation was terminated. So then the though they call them the radius in CEOs. Not like that. So he comes in and I have put a copy in his mailbox. So he's looking at he said, what is this? I thought, you know what that is? He said, wives. And you know why? And, you know, any any time that anytime someone else is you because you're late, because you're stuck in traffic and it's due to a car accident and you get canceled because of that, I was like, you know what? I can't. I'm not do it. I said, You know, I said, I'm done. I said, I can't and I won't. I said, So I'm done. So. So then I was trying to stay in the National Guard in the air program, and I was like, okay, maybe I can be a recruiter. And my ears that score wasn't high enough. I think I was like one point below a recruiter that I could be a recruiter. So the, the the executive officer, he said he said, Everybody, [Unrecognized], because you write a first name. And I thought that was so he was like he said, you can't you know, you can't because you don't have the score to be a recruiter. I said, okay, okay. He said, What do you do? I said, Well, I'm just I'm just going to leave. And then he said something about where are you going to stay? Because even though I left the full time position to ag acquisition, I still had that weekend position, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So I still I still was a member on the M&A side, like one week in a month. And I told him, I said, sir, I said, you know what? I said, there's so much stuff that goes on here. I said, You wouldn't believe what goes on here. I said, But I'm the type of person where I have too much stuff going on in my own life that I'm not concerned. It's none of my business what anyone else does. I said, But I'm done. So then my friend, Sergeant First Class Evelyn Green, then she was a recruiter for the Army and Army Reserve. So I'll call Evelyn Ellen. I'm ready to go. Can you. Can you get me back in the Army Reserve? Because I figured. Okay, I started in the Army Reserve. I'm going to end in Army Reserve. So it wasn't there. She was. She had to go to Missouri for her parents or something like that. But she sent her friend. And what was his name? What's his name? Some first class. I think that was our first passport. So Wood came, picked me up, got my medical records from Company B when I t he drove me all the way to Madison. Well, he drove me all the way to Madison, Had all of my signature sign off on everything. Everything. And I. And I was. I was released from the National Guard. I was released from Company B when I t I was done with the h r program, and I went back to the Army Reserve. It's like I was done.

ROWELL: And that was in 2001. Is that correct?

METTS: Yup. Yeah. Yeah, that was in that was in November of 2001. Yeah.

ROWELL: So before I move on, I think we should maybe take a pause for time and then come back. Okay. This ends the segment of the interview with Carrie Metz continuing on January 9th, 2023. Today is February 2nd, 2023. This is a continuation of the interview with Carrie James, who served in the United States Army Reserve and United States Army National Guard from June 1986 to May 2013. This interview is being conducted by Kate Rell in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, for the I'm Not Visible Project and Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. So last we left off, we were discussing your time with the 118th. Okay. And we were kind of talking about maybe the work environment, the work culture there. Would you like to say some more about that?

METTS: Yes. Yes. The 118th. When when I got there, it already had like some sort of reputation. And basically, like there was not there weren't a lot of. Minority soldiers there. And I was like, okay, you know, because I was always used to being the one and only. So I was like, okay, fine, you know, I'll get through this. And I've been through it before. But this was, you know, it was it was it was different. And when your readiness NCO says colored people and things like that. So yeah. Yeah, it was it was. It was not good for him and it was not good. And I've always been the type of person that I never did play on race or gender or anything like that. This is like I'm here to do a job and you know, this is what I'm here to do. If it gets really out of hand, I know what to do. I know how to conduct myself and everything like that. But it was it was just like like I just can't believe that you said those things or, you know. So he had there were there were soldiers there that had complained. And they would I think they brought someone down to do like a like a climate survey of the unit. And it was the results were not good. And I'm like, okay, I can I can see it. I can see it cause I, I know there was one young man who was like the, the maintenance NCO. He was black. And then there was me. And then there was a female lieutenant who was. She's done now. And I think she made it up to Captain or Major or something. So I still see her. So there really there weren't a lot. So yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. You mentioned to me that you felt you were consistently one of the only full time black female.

METTS: Yes. In the unit. Yes. Yes, yes. So that was, that was like with, with the 57 Field Artillery Brigade when I transferred over from the Reserves to the National Guard to the 1/47 Aviation Battalion up in Madison, to Company B, 1/18 in Waukesha. And I really didn't see a change until I had transferred back to the Army Reserve because when I left the Guard, I said, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to in my career where I started. And then when I was there, I was like, my goodness, You know, look at look at all of this diversity in here. Look at all of these women, that outbreak and all this kind of stuff, you know, there's a black general. My goodness. I did not know that those existed. You know, it was like uniforms and stuff for me, you know, And that that made me that made me feel comfortable, you know, because. Because there were there were more people, you know, that looked like me and and women. And, you know, it was just it was just nice. It was just nice. It was like I felt that I had come home with. Yeah. But the, the 118 that was. Yeah. I told you I couldn't stay. Yeah.

ROWELL: We had talked about. You had mentioned to me that there was, differential treatment in terms of, the supervision that you received.

METTS: And.

ROWELL: Also disciplinary measures. Do you feel comfortable talking about that?

METTS: Yes. So there was one specific incident where, I was caught in traffic and there was an accident. So I was late for work. So then I get there, and then my supervisor, he had a counseling form for me. I was like, What is this for? I'm counseling you. It's like, why are you counseling me? Because you were late. I said, What? I called you and told you that there was an accident on the freeway. I had no control of where You should have taken a different route. You should have went a different way. I said, okay, I get it. I get it. But he did. He did. So some crooked stuff under the table, too. And one of the things that I will never, ever forget is, he ordered food for his parents, like, 50th wedding anniversary. So we had cooks, but he would order the food. He would, you know, they would give him the menu and he would order the food, you know, like from, say, for example, like from Cisco or something like that. So he would order the food and for the cooks to cook. And he was ordering food for his parents, you know, anniversary and with the military. I did not I did not say a word. I did not say a word. And when when I had put in my my resignation and I had spoken to it was there major, major Greenwood. And he was really nice. And, I told him, I said, Sir, I said, there's so much stuff that goes on here. I said, You wouldn't believe it. I said, But I said, I'm not the type of person to tell what other people are doing. I said, because I have too many issues of my own, but I need to deal with and I cannot be bothered with what anyone else is doing. So I never I didn't say anything else. I left it at that. But it came to light. What. What he was doing.

ROWELL: And so it seems maybe kind of a double standard in terms of behavior.

METTS: Yes, ma'am. Yes. Yes, there was there was definitely a double standard. I think, the the full time person, the readiness NCO, he felt as if or maybe he thought this is this is my perception that since he did favors for everyone, that he could get away with things and that he was kind of like the commander's favorite. So I said, okay, I see. I see how this is going. But I never I never said anything. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: Did that did his influence with the commander have any impact on your level of your level of comfort if you were to ever come forward with what you were experiencing?

METTS: Yeah, And especially especially with the incident where I was putting together slides for the commander to do a slide presentation and and his boss came in and his boss reprimanded him and then he in turn came and reprimanded me. Yeah. Yeah. So after, after that, I was. I was done. So that was when I just put in my resignation. I just. I just got off of the air tour with the National Guard, and I was like, I'm done.

ROWELL: Yeah.

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: You had also mentioned previously in our discussions that you perceived maybe a difference in culture between the Reserve and the Guard while you served. In terms of attitudes towards sexual harassment. Do you feel comfortable talking more about.

METTS: Yeah. When, when I was in the when I was in the guard, I can distinctly remember someone taking me out to lunch. And, you know, I didn't think anything about it was like, okay, so somebody wants to take me out to lunch. That's a free lunch. You know, I don't have to worry about eating my sandwich and chips and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, So we go in, then sit in this in his car, in a park and t, you know, started to make advances toward me. And I'm like, No, no, this, this is not cool. No, this can, this cannot be done. So it was, it was that it was always like, like these sexual overtures, things of that nature. And I'm like, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So I don't I did not say anything. I did not report it because I was like, I know how to handle it and conduct myself. And, yeah, that was, that was disappointing. Yeah. But yeah, it, it never it never escalated to a point where I had to report it or there was a sexual assault incident. I never experienced any of that throughout my career. And, and I'm grateful for that because I have, I know someone who had been sexually assaulted and you know that. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: So this, this misconduct that you're describing was that did you encounter that with, with mostly one individual in your own experience or was it multiple individuals? It was it.

METTS: Was different individuals.

ROWELL: Okay. So cultural?

METTS: Yeah, in some way, Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

ROWELL: Did you feel that that was kind of a in your perception? Do you feel that other people knew that kind of thing was going on?

METTS: I don't think so. Okay. I don't think so. No. No. So. Yeah. Yeah, it was.

Unidentified We? It was something. Yeah.

ROWELL: Did anyone ever initiate conversations about workplace conduct or anything like that? Was that ever discussion, any trainings, anything.

METTS: During those, You know, you would always have like the sexual harassment trainings and all that kind of stuff. You don't do this. You don't say that, you know, quid pro quo and all that kind of stuff, you know. But, you know, that was. That was that was it.

ROWELL: Yeah. Not very effective or. Well, what would you say about that?

METTS: Well, I would say that it was it was out there. But you knew. You knew better. Yeah, you knew better. So, yeah, there were. Yeah, there you would. You would hear things. You would hear things from the female soldiers. You would hear things.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah. So you communicated with other female soldiers and they had experiences you have similar to your own?

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the I would say I would say the difference with them would be that they only had to experience something like that on a real weekend, whereas I was there, like every day. Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. And feeling a little socially isolated. Yeah. You said.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: So dealing with that kind of on your own?

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I survived it. But yeah.

ROWELL: It's a lot to cope with.

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: Thank you for sharing. So is there anything else before you move on to your transition back to part time reserves that you want to discuss about your time in the guard or at the winning team?

METTS: I would say that overall, with with the National Guard, I encountered some really, really, really cool and good people. And for all the stuff that you go through or whatever, it's the people that I miss the most. Like my one friend, Lori Yeager, her when I was with the 147. And then there was, Roxann and Shelly and. Then there was the recruiter, Sergeant First Class, Jim Collins, who I still keep in contact with today. He'll call and check on me or I'll call and check on him. He was the one that was instrumental with me leaving the 57 Field Artillery Brigade and getting me to the 1/47 Aviation Battalion when my position had went away. So, he was Sergeant First Class Collins. He's. He's just a gem of a person, a wonderful person, a good mentor, everything. He helped me get through like the last few years of my retirement before I retired. So that was good. So those. Those people from the National Guard. And then who else? General Joni Mitchell, you know, knew her when she was like Captain Joni Mitchell when she came. And then she rose up in the ranks to become like, I think it was the first female tag up in Madison, first person of First Nation, you know, ancestry to hold that position. So that was that's to me that's just that's just wonderful to be able to serve with wonderful people.

Unidentified That made that.

METTS: Particular time in my life enjoyable. You know. I really I really miss them. And I'm glad for what I call Facebook. I'm glad for Facebook because I can still see them. And that's that's what I really what I really like the most. So, yeah, so I still get to keep in contact with them. And that's that's what I really enjoy most overall about. About my military experience that the people that I've met along the way and the people that I still get to keep in contact with, that's the most meaningful part for me.

ROWELL: Yeah. And so you moved from the guard to the part time reserve in 2001, is that correct?

METTS: Yeah. Okay.

ROWELL: Do you want to talk a little bit about how that was transitioning from full time for many years to part time?

METTS: Man, that was cool. That was a real stressful time. So when when I left the guard, I mean, it was like, okay, I need I need to find a job. I need to find something to do. So I had went to the lead on Belief Street and I tried to apply for like food stamps and stuff like that for my daughter and a medical card until I received a job. But then they said, Well, technically you're still employed with the military. And I was like, But I left and I'm no longer there. You know what? Well, you're still employed with them on a full time basis or whatever it is. It was something so I could not I could not get anything. I could not get anything. I said, Okay. So, so then I found a job with NPS and I was working as a paraprofessional educational assistant. A big, fancy, long title for a teacher's aide with a four year degree. So I worked there for, like December until June, and then I left there and then I went over to.

Unidentified So I left. I left.

METTS: The school. I left the school. I left the school. And then I went over to the V.A.. To work.

ROWELL: To work as a civilian.

METTS: As a civilian. Stayed there for about, what, maybe 1 or 2 years. And then from there, I went over to Children's Hospital. And I worked as a medical receptionist or something like that. So I was there. And then while I was there, I, I was able to, to do work on orders. So the thing was, they, my my unit had found out that I had served ADR with the guard. It was like, Carrie, don't you want to come back? I was like, No, no, I'm good. I'm good. You know, I'm good where I am. And then there was something that came up and they were looking for like the the unit was looking for, like, extra help to help with records and, you know, like and the personnel stuff. So I was like, okay, I'll, I'll do that. So they a well, while I was there in that capacity, I was getting like I was on active duty because you're on orders and I was getting money. You know, I was getting I was getting good money. I mean, it was it was good. It was it was more money than what I was making at Children's Hospital. And that money was good while I was on orders because I was falling behind on my bills. I had to borrow money from from a friend of mine to help cover my mortgage for like two months and all this other kind of stuff. So that money came in handy. And I remember this one person, she was like and I think she was the overheard my conversation on the phone and she was like, so you're on orders. She said, You're not coming back. I was like, Yes, I'm coming back. So then in the meantime, while I was on orders, I, I had cleaned out my desk and everything. I cleaned up my desk. And in the end, that was when my my full time supervisor because they they were the unit was split. So there was a detachment down here in Milwaukee and the main unit was up at Fort McCoy.

ROWELL: Because of the Air Force training.

METTS: Yes. For training? Yeah. Yeah. And and then they were like, Matt, you need to put your. You need to put your package together for, you know, come on board, ADR, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was like I was like, Yeah, right. Okay. So now I put my package together and the the sergeant major, he personally drove my package down there and I was picked up for ADR tour and I was like, Wow, you know, all that kind of stuff. But but before that, I had been my my supervisor. She she tracked down my commander when I was working and she would just hospital and she, she, she looked at my orders because I had to give her my orders. And she looked at my orders and she called up to the place where, you know, the unit from the orders she called there. And then eventually she got a hold of my commander. And he said he said, Sergeant Mertz, he said, So what are you going to do? He said, Does she know that you've applied for an air position? I said, No, sir. And he said, Did you want to tell her? I said, No, sir. He said, Why? Because that's not a name for business, sir. Just like that. So. So then it was like. I guess I've been going away for too long. And then she said something like, If you're not back by July, say, like July 3rd or something like that. I remember it was in July. She said, If you're not back, my wife, July 3rd or whatever, we're going to in voluntarily terminate you. I said, okay, fine. I said, You will have my keys and my badge. And I would turn them in. To hospital security. And I turned my keys and my badge in the hospital security because I was like, I didn't need this either. You know, so. And I remember I remember somebody calling me in. They were like, Kerry, are you are you coming back? And I was like, Yeah, I'm coming back. And she was like, because everybody was worried because your desk was cleaned out. Because my desk. It was notorious. It would have like all kind of like. Salt and pepper packets, you know, ketchup packets and napkins and, you know, just food and all of the other kind of stuff. So everybody knew how my jaw looked and I cleaned it all out. And she was like, Are you? I said, Yeah. I said, I just wiped it down. I said, I cleaned it out because I didn't want the next person coming in there and, you know, whatever temporary. I didn't want them to come in here and sit in there, you know, open up the drawer and see all my junk in there. I said, That's not nice. This is not cool. She said, okay, just want to make sure. I said, Yeah, I'll do that. Did not. Do not come back.

ROWELL: So did you elect not to tell her? Just to avoid friction? You have to mean time. Okay.

METTS: I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it was like when I called her, it was like, I'm not coming back. You know, I was picked up on, you know, active duty, and she was very upset. She was like, I knew that. I figured that all along. And then she hung up on me. I was like, okay, fine. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.

ROWELL: I'm swinging back around just for a moment to that kind of 2001 plus, like slightly to the post 2001 transitional period. Do you want to talk at all about your experience working at the VA?

METTS: VA With the VA VA? Experience was something.

METTS: That I did not enjoy.

METTS: There were a few people there that I met that I enjoyed working with, but the overall experience. So when when I was hired, I was hired as a I think it was called a BSR, a veterans services representative. So the claims would come in and we would process the claims and all that other kind of stuff. So there was there was a whole group of us and in in our group, there were a few folks that were veterans. So it was it was myself. So even though I was still, you know, serving, there was a guy who was in Vietnam and then there was another guy. So we all started we all started together. And I think that must have been like 12 of us. I think there were 12 and. You had, you know, every day you had to get so many points and. And then the the coach, they would look over your stuff and then they would say, okay, you need to change this. You need to change that. So I think that for your error and this is me, I could be wrong, but this is this was my perception like. Like they will get points for finding errors on what you did and like sometimes there would be backlogs and other variables there. There's regional offices. Like for example, we would get stuff from Chicago or Hynes because there was a backlog, so they would ship their records to us and then we would have to work the records for them. So then it would be like, whatever, whatever that last person, whatever they didn't catch, it became your error. Yeah. So you would you would have to go through the the file and go from the bottom and go all the way up, you know, to, to the current stuff. And it was that I didn't like that then you would, you would get like the file cabinet drawer, you know, and you would have all of these records in there about these in numbers and you would have to file it like that and then you would have to scan it like every Friday. And then someone would say, well, can you hurry up and work this claim because so-and-so needs it for this and all this other kind of stuff. Then you would have this one guy and he would go and he would go to like this stand alone drawer. Like if you had finished all of your stuff, then you could go to this drawer. And he knew which in codes were the easiest ones. So he would pick those so that he could get all of his points. So I remember my one friend and she was she was I think I think she was she was either almost finishing her degree or her law degree at market or something like that. And so, you know, they put you on they put you in to put them in a path. If you don't meet your numbers, you know, like a performance enhancement, you know, or performance academic program or all that stuff. So then they would they, they would call you. You would come in to work, you would come in at 730, you know, and they knew that they were going to fire you and then work you all the way to like 3:00. They would call you into the coach's office. You would come back, your computer screen would be black. They would have a box for you to clean off your workspace and leave. So basically it was like, okay, well, if you knew that you were going to fire me, how come you didn't tell me that this morning? So instead you wanted to get some work out of me and then let me go that way. So that was that was that incident. There was another incident when the the man who was the Vietnam veteran, he was Air Force. And I remember like he had stop coming to work. So it was he was kind of friendly with another guy that was in our group. And he had said that no one went to physically check on him. What they were sending him these letters like, if you don't come in to work, you're going to be in voluntarily terminated, you know, that kind of stuff. So the the one guy they he and I guess he was called like a police officer or something and they did a wellness check and they were like, okay, well, he's here because his his motorcycle is here and all this other kind of stuff. And then they kind of found him like huddled in a corner in his house. And he was saying that he couldn't do anything because he had PTSD. And I guess they would come up from behind him and, you know, do all this kind of stuff. So that was that was that.

METTS: What else?

METTS: When when I was not meeting the performance standards, there was a lady there and she found a spot for me in a mailroom. So I was like, okay, thank you. You know? So I did that. And then I could see how they treated the people differently in the mailroom. So there was this one guy. He was kind of like the favorite. He was the favorite. So it was okay for him to be on his cell phone, you know, all this kind of stuff. But then if I were on my cell phone, it was a problem. I said, okay. So it was it was like they had their pets. And I remember there was there was a manager and I was talking to one of the supervisors and I was like, I said, yes. I said, he's I said, he's he's a pretty handsome guy. I said, he dress is nice. I said, he's he's nice. He dresses nice. I said, you know, he's he's pretty handsome. But she didn't go until our big supervisor what she had said. But she went and said what I said. And I said, I said, She didn't tell you that she was in agreement. Was she gets to know she didn't. I said, okay, fine. So that was that. What else? And then the male supervisor, she was like, in, in you need, you need to stop wearing tops like that because everyone's talking about how you dress and everything else. Like, okay, so that was that. And then it just, it just got to the point where it's like I'm.

METTS: I got to go.

METTS: And so the one, the one supervisor who told I need I didn't say anything about herself. She was like, okay, sorry, are you planning on leaving? Because we had we had a discussion one day and I told her, I said, I bet you I leave before you do. And she said, No, I don't think so. I said, I bet you, at least before I met you, I leave before you will. Before you do it. She's like, No. I said, Okay. So then it was maybe like a couple of weeks later she was like, Terry, I didn't know that you were looking for a job. I said, You have said, and you're not supposed to know. I said, Yeah, I'm done. I said, I'll give you my two week notice. And then I left. I left the V.A. And then that was when I went to Children's. Yeah, Yeah. And then I had I had a friend and she went and worked at the VA. And I told her, I said I wouldn't do it if I were you, I wouldn't do it. And then in the end, she, she, she had told me, she said I should have listened to you because she, she had, she had a hard time too, So. But. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Thank you for sharing that.

ROWELL: It's good to understand your experience.

METTS: Yeah. I didn't I didn't like how and it was it was almost like when people found out that you were a veteran or you still served it. It was it was a totally different vibe that you receive from some unknown, you know, like, so you get you get extra hours vacation time because you served in the Army. It was. It was. Yeah. Yeah, but but there was, there were a few people there that that I met that I enjoyed working with. And there was, there was one. And I would always send people to her because she said she told me, she said, Carrie, she said, I love my job. I enjoy what I do. She said, I love working with veterans. And and every time somebody would say something like, I need to go to the VA, I was like, okay, this is what you need to go talk to. So I always send people her way and I would call her and say, Hey, you know, so-and-so has come in and you see their name on the sheet. They say they're going to ask for you because I've told them to ask for you. And she said, okay, okay. So, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was my experience at the VA. Yeah.

ROWELL: And then during that period of time. So that was from 2001 to 2003, right? Yeah.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: And while you were still maybe angry right at the very end the first time, and then into your part time reserve work, was it the case that you were almost deployed with some units, but, you know, during the wars in Iraq?

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: Okay. Do you want to talk about that?

METTS: So. So the 147 and they it was like right after I left them, they were called up. Okay. And then because with the 147, I transferred over to Company B 1/18 in Waukesha. And then when I left Company V 118 and transferred back to the reserve, they had been called up. Okay. Yeah.

ROWELL: Do you remember what what year that was when you were still in the guard that they were. They were called up. No. Okay. Or like, what? Engagement. They were being deployed, weren't they?

METTS: My gosh. Just. Would have been out after the article.

METTS: Yes. Yes.

ROWELL: All but maybe Middle Eastern Europe.

METTS: No, no, they weren't They they went over to like Iraq and Afghanistan. So yeah, so they were they were what we would call like the Dust Bowl. So yeah. So they went over. They, they went over, I think. And the company B was in Iraq. And I think the 147 that may have been in Afghanistan.

ROWELL: Was that in 2001.

METTS: That had to be 2000, one 2002 somewhere because I got out. I got out like right after 911 because I got out in November. Okay. So so I left. I left Company B in in November. And then like a couple of months after that, I think that was where they went when they went over. Yeah.

ROWELL: Okay. Speaking of which, do you have any desire to talk about your own memories of, of.

METTS: 911, perhaps, or. Yeah. So. 911 that was, it was me and the, the admin NCO, and I cannot remember his name. So it was like after a real weekend and we were taking excess ammo back up to like Fort McCoy. And so, you know, we're in our, in our military truck and we didn't know what was going on. So when we get to the ammo drop off point, one of the gentleman said something about, you know, we're under attack. And we're like, what do you mean we're under attack? And he said, Yeah, a plane just went into the Twin Towers and we're like, No, no, you know, just like that. And I think he must've had the T.V. on and that's when we saw it. So we were just standing there like, my goodness, this is really happening. So it's like it was like we were like everybody else was like, okay, what is what's going on? What what is this? I can't believe this is happening. What? What is this? And so then it was like, you know, we're we're in the car with in the not the car, but we're in the truck in there. We're just driving back. And it was like, okay, I can't wait to get back and see, you know, turn on the TV and find out what's going on. And it was just like blown away. So, you know, you're looking at like, so what were you doing on that day? I was like, Yeah, me and add me an NCO. We were returning ammo to Fort McCoy when we heard about, you know, 911 about the towers being attacked and, you know, so, yeah. And now with something like that, I know that.

ROWELL: You did that. Have did that have any impact for you on your considerations about about the guard and about, you know, the reserve and maybe the transition between those two that came soon after.

METTS: You know, not not with the Guard because it was almost like. Like the thing was, okay, well, are we going to get called up? You know, that was that was a thing. But I guess I guess I never I never really thought of it that way because, you know, we were we were the guard and, you know, mostly all of the, you know, the the active duty people would be called up first before they picked somebody from the Guard. The one thing was, when I left when I left the guard and I went back to the Army Reserve. And when I told my mom about going back a year to finish my last few years to retire, she was like, she did not want me to go because her fear was that I would get caught up. And I said, Well, Mommy, you know, you have more of a chance getting caught up in the Guard than with the with the reservist. Because look, look at what happened to my last two units. I said they were called up and, you know, I left them, you know, but they were called up when when when the the war was going on with with the reserve. What they did was they would they would they could pluck you from your unit to fill a hole in another unit that was being called up. So my mom was worried about that. And I told her, I said, Well, I said, here's here's the thing. This is this is what I had heard or whatever you are of a higher rate. So and then your your age, your but that doesn't exclude you. But, you know, you probably have like less of a possibility of of getting called out. So and I was I was lucky. I was blessed to not have been called up while I was in the reserves. So and I think I thank God for that because, you know, I was like, okay, my mom's going to have to take care of my daughter and all this kind of stuff. Her and my sister will have this additional responsibility, you know? So, yeah.

ROWELL: Was Jordan still in kind of the thick of her for medical treatment? Yeah.

METTS: Yeah. Because Jordan Jordan was still like going through the seizures and all of that kind of stuff got together. So. Yeah, Yeah.

ROWELL: So it would have been a big burden.

METTS: Yeah, it would have been a big burden.

ROWELL: Yeah. So to cope with a single parent getting deployed.

METTS: Yeah, Yeah.

ROWELL: So you mentioned receiving a degree in pursuit of bachelor's degree during this period.

METTS: W Yeah, right.

ROWELL: Was that community community education degree?

METTS: Yeah.

ROWELL: Okay. Is there anything you'd like to say about that? Yeah.

METTS: So when I went to UW, I went to UW, went to get a degree in Spanish because, you know, that was, that was what I wanted to do. But I was penalized because when I transferred from Milwaukee Area Technical College to UW Milwaukee, I had repeated to Spanish courses and I was like, you know, I got CS in those two classes. Let me take these over again and see if I can break up my GPA. So when I had applied to graduate, that was when my advisor had learned that I was six credits short, sort of that short or something like that. And I was like, What do you mean? I'm six crazy short now I'm going to step in and explain to me that I had been penalized for six credits because I had repeated to classes that I had done before. So I was really pissed off. I was really mad. And so then he said, he said, Well, Kerry, I know I can get you into the School of Education for Community Education degree, he said. And all you have to do is, you know, spend an extra semester and then you can graduate with a degree. I said, okay, fine, let's do it. So I did that and ended up with a degree in community education. And then I was like, Well, what can I do with this degree? And somebody said, Well, to be perfectly honest with you, it's kind of like a liberal arts degree. And that's about it. And I was like, okay, fine, I'll. I'll use it for promotion points for the military so I can get promoted. And that was what it was used for. I got promoted. It helped me get promoted. So, yeah. All right.

ROWELL: And then you made the decision to return to active Guard and Reserve status in 2006. Is that correct? Okay. Can you talk about what prompted that decision for you specifically?

METTS: You know, once again, my my full time people were like, okay, you should you should do this. And I was like, nah, I'm not doing this. So. So then while I was on orders and then the position came up and then I went on and did it and I didn't I didn't think that I honestly would get picked up for it, but I guess I did. And I was forever thankful for that. But the thing is, is that when I remember distinctly when I was getting dressed and I was still on orders and I put my package together and I had prayed and asked the Lord, I was like, Lord, I said, if if I am picked up for this age or your position, could you please ensure that I stay in place for these last six years to get my 20? You know, can you please ensure that I'm not called up, I'm not deployed, I'm not sent overseas. Can you please just ensure, Lord, that I just stay in place? And that was that. That was that. And then I, you know, I was picked up and that was when I found out that I had exercise induced asthma. And then as a result of that, I was found not fit for duty and I could not deploy anywhere. And I was like, okay, so what's going on? And I didn't I didn't say anything. It never it never quit. It never quit. You know about that prayer that I said, it never clicked. You know, I thought, okay. It's just this. All right, fine. So then I had to put my paperwork together and I had to go before a medical evaluation board. So I had to go down there and do that. And then that was when they found me fit for duty. So then when I hit, I came back and I was like, okay, fine. They found me fit for duty. And then one day at work, I had received a phone call from my career advisor and he was like, Hey, sorry, how are you doing? I was like, fine, you know, how are you? And he was like, Are you ready to move? You know, are you ready to go? I was like, going to start with going, well, you came down on orders to go to and this was him talking just like this to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. I said, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. He said, Yeah. And I said, Well, my daughter, she's an EFP, an exceptional family member program, you know. I said, can is there not a reason why I can't stay here? Are there not any more? Are there not any slots on this compound or on Silver Spring Drive? Because people think that Silver Spring Drive is like this huge, massive place. Because when my replacement came in, she was like, Is this it? I said, Yeah. She said. She said, They make it seem like it seems like it's this really huge place, like this really big active duty place and all of these units are here. I say, No, it's not like that. And so then he said, no. He said, You've been time on station for too long. You know, he said, You've already been there over three years. And, you know, basically you've been there for too long. You should have been gone by now and all this other kind of stuff. And I said, Well, I said, I can't stay. He said, No. He said, You need to move for the needs of the army. I said, Even though my daughter is in the exceptional fellowship over here, He said, Yup. He said, You need to move. He said, you need you need to see it. You got to go. I said, okay. I said. Can I. Can I put in my retirement paperwork? And he said, Yeah. He said, But, you know, not until you're like 12 months out or something. So I, I had submitted my paperwork and they kicked it back because it was, it was too far ahead. It was like 13 months or something like that. So I got everything done and I waited and I submitted it. And then people were like, Well, Sergeant missed you. You can't leave. You got to stay. I said, No. I said, I got to go. And they were like, Why? Is it because they want to change for me? They want to picks me to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. I said, I don't know what type of unit that is. I said, My daughter just had this surgery because Jordan had Jordan. It just I think her her seizure surgery where they, you know, her right field was four wrecked by me. I think she must have been like a year post-surgery. And so we were still under the care of the neurologist and all that kind of stuff. And with the EFP program, they're supposed to ensure that you are within so many miles of a school and so many miles of a hospital to ensure that your dependents still gets that that care. So I didn't know where I was going. I didn't know anybody in Herzberg, Pennsylvania. Jordan. I would have been out there by ourselves. I would have had to find someone to care for her on weekends or something like that. So I put my paperwork in and that that was that I was done. I mean, I was the best, best decision, you know? Do I miss it? I miss the people. You know, I miss I miss my unit. I miss the soldiers. I miss seeing them every month, but not the idea of being transferred to a place where I had no family support whatsoever. Yeah.

ROWELL: And that last unit that you served with was that the. That was the three 34th Regiment for the 98.

METTS: 23, 32334 95, 95th Division. Yeah. A.K.A. we called ourselves the 9 to 5 because the patch had a nine and a five. And so. Yeah. Okay.

ROWELL: Yeah. So the whole time that you were with that unit there with the 90.

METTS: Tests, nothing. Yeah. Three, two, three, three, two. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah. I think we may have changed but I'm not, I'm not sure.

ROWELL: I'm not sure. But that's, that's important to know. And then, and your, your rank was, you were 734.

METTS: Yeah. I was a sergeant first class. Yeah. All right.

ROWELL: And do you want to talk at all about those duties that you had at the, you know, at the ninth?

METTS: Yes, I was. I was the senior human resources sergeant. Or as we would finally say about ourselves, I was a desk diva, so I was responsible for the drill sergeant unit. And I think maybe like 100 or so drill sergeants. So I had to make sure that their admin and personnel and medical records were up to par. And I enjoyed doing that. I really did. I liked the paperwork, you know, throughout, throughout all the time that I was in the Guard. I think when I was in the administrative roles, those were the roles that I enjoyed, I enjoyed the most. Even even if it meant that I had to do payroll because I did payroll when I was in the Guard. And then when I was in the in the Army Reserve, I had to do payroll when the unit administrator when when she was out sick. But I enjoy I liked doing that a lot because it was almost like I could see I could see the changes, you know, like, okay. So it's always up for promotion, you know? So, all right, let's do this. Or Hey, everybody in my section. Because when I got there, when I got there, the, the company personnel sergeants, they all stayed in their little area. And I was like, I can't we can't operate like this anymore because I would give them tasks that they needed to do and the paperwork would not come back to me completed. So therefore I was still I was doing the work. So I had said to the commanders, like, Sir, I really would like the, the human resources sergeants in the big room with me. And then, you know, they can take care of their their soldiers that way, I said, And then I will know that the tasks and stuff are being done. So that was that. What else? The one change that I did that they did not like, they did not like this at all was the promotion package. So the the the person who was replaced, she did all of their promotion package. And I said, I'm not doing it. And and I told the commander said, Sir, I said, that's that's not fair. I said, this is this is their career. I said, why is it that I should be responsible for putting together their promotion package to help them get promoted in their career? I said, that's that's not right. I said, This is their career. So then we would have them make an appointment with the person in their from their company, their company and be a person. And they would sit down and go through their records with them like they would get their promotion pack and we would go through everything. And then I remembered this one, this one drill sergeant, He was he was a staff sergeant. E-6 going to Sergeant first class, etc.. And when he sat down and he went through the entire process, he said, Sergeant Myers, he said, Now I understand. He said, Now I know. And I said, yes. And now you know the process. Now you know what it's like. Now you have some control over this. Now you can sit down and talk to somebody else. You can sit down with one of your junior and CEOs and go with, you know, go with them throughout the process, walk them through it, see how it's done, you know. So he did. He got promoted.

METTS: And and I think.

METTS: They were able to appreciate it because they had a hand in their own career advancement. And that was the whole point. Like, this is your career and you need to take charge. You need to know how your packet looks. You need to know is everything is together. There were people like the 2-1. They weren't putting in stuff like, okay, you transferred from this unit to this unit or you change duty positions from here to here. And that was all supposed to have been recorded on the 2-1 and some of them hadn't done that, you know, you got this award. So it was supposed to have been on your 2-1. Some of that stuff was not being done. So we had like what we call like birthday month bodies and excuse me, we would have I would have a sign up and I would send the email out. Email out in even in the training meetings, we have training meetings like, okay, for the birth with audit, we need to say boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Make sure they come in and get this done. So then it was basically like they didn't want to do it. It was like, okay, cool. I understand you don't want to sit here and do this. I said, Well, look at this way. I said, There, when it's time for a promotion board to come up, I said, Your packet is already ready because you've done all of this. You know this, this is really. Why did you do this? You know, some people didn't want to do it. I would have to give them horror stories like, okay, you're divorced. Did you change your insurance document? Because if you didn't and I said, you you've got this young new wife now and you've got your own wife, you know, your ex wife on here. So if something should happen to you, guess who gets the insurance money? The ex wife. I said. Then I said, You're your new wife. She's going to be mad and I can't do anything about it because you didn't come in here and do your birth audit and make the changes. So, yeah, yeah, I, I, I enjoyed, I enjoyed doing that a lot. Just just the fact about seeing people get promoted and, you know, in processing new soldiers and soldiers being out processed, you know, like they they're go into different units because of, of of a promotion and everything like that or they wanted to go to a new unit. I enjoyed I enjoyed that role a lot a lot more than any of the other roles that I had. That's the one that I enjoyed the most.

ROWELL: When you were a senior NCO at the CIA, you had a lot more authority. And it's is it would you say that you felt more comfortable in this in this working environment, having a dialog with, you know, maybe commanders or to change processes as you.

METTS: Hear.

ROWELL: As you want to?

METTS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it a lot. No, I agree. There was, you know, I would I would sometimes come in late and I would leave early and then my union minister later, she did not she did not care for that because she was she was a civilian. But, you know. The AG. Ah, you're the one that's on call 20 473 65. So, you know, that was, that was that. Then there were I can honestly say that the one thing that I that I did not like was when I had to be the casualty assistant officer. I did not I did not like that because it, it made me very sad. Or the casualty notification officer, the CNO. So, you know, you would, you would get dressed in your in your class A's. And when you were the notification officer, it would be you and an officer. And I remember it was me and and a female major. And we had to notify a family about their loved one. And and it was a small town. And people people saw us and they were looking like, who are they and why are they here? Why are they dressed like, you know? And we it was basically like a race against time, I guess, because people were putting stuff out on social media about things that had happened. So we had to make sure that the families were notified before news got out. So when when the information traveled, you know, from the notification office or whatever they called it, and then it made it to the unit, it was like we had so many hours to think to do that. And there there was the one case where we had to notify the family and the father. He saw us and it was like he opened the door and said, you know, who are you? Why are you here? You know, he and he knew. I think he had he had a premonition and we had to tell it was it was him, his wife and the sister. And we and it is it's it's something that you will never, ever forget. And. What really struck me was how this family was forever changed.

METTS: And, you know.

METTS: When when we were driving home, we, me and the female major and it was like, you know, we got back to the reserve unit and we got in our cars and we went home. We went our separate ways. And I'm calling my mom on my cell phone and I'm telling her I don't like doing this. You know, I don't like seeing a family, you know, experience all that pain and that person not come back. And, you know, I said and it made me think about somebody knocking on the door to tell you and Jordan that something happened to me and I'm not coming home. So I always go there. If you ever get this, this is what I want you to do. You know, all this kind of stuff. So it was it was that one. And then it was another one. Where. It was a young lady.

METTS: And that one.

METTS: That one was was kind of bad because I remember I remember getting a phone call from, the guy who I had to report to. So, you know, after, after the notification person comes in, then you come in like the next day or nine hours later, and most likely you come in like, like a couple hours later or whatever it was. And it was, it was a young lady and it was me, her and two of her friends. And they had served in the military as well. And then when when I got back to my unit to let the people I think it was down at Fort Knox, Kentucky. And when I spoke to the gentleman to say, okay, I made contact, this is how it went, this is what I said and all this kind of stuff. And he said, he said, What's our image? He said, How did it go? I said, I think it went well, you know. And he said, Are you sure? I said, Yeah. I said, It went well. I said, You know, I told her everything that she needed to know. I said I was very professional, very respectful. And he said, they think are sergeants. I said, Yeah. I said, I was, you know, nothing said out of the ordinary. Nothing said that was disrespectful or anything like that. And he said, Well, I got a phone call. I said, okay. And he said, The widow, the young lady, he said, she requested you to be removed as her casualty assistance officer. I said, Really? He said, Yes. He said, Can you think of a reason why? I said, reason? He said why? I said, Probably because I have a little bit of extra melanin in my skin. I have too much melanin for her. I said it just like that. And he got really quiet and he said, okay, Sergeant. He said, I understand. He said, I just need for you to make sure that you get everything done so that you can get out of here. I said, Yes, sir. And that that hurt me. Yeah, that hurt me a lot because it's like I'm there to help you get through this. So then so then there was. There was this woman, and she was like, I guess she had to be, like, over like, an assistance team or something like that. So I was supposed to take something up to her, to the to the widow. But Jordan had been having a lot of seizure activity. So I told her, I said, well, I can't make it today. I said, my daughter is sick. You know, all this kind of stuff on the left. So this woman was like. She got very indignant. And then she said, Where's your commanding officer? I said, I said, Do you want to speak to my command? She said, Yeah. And I guess she thought that I was supposed to be afraid that she wanted to speak to my commander. I said, Just a second. Let me put her on the phone for you. So I walked over to the commander's office and knocked on doors. Female commander knocked on our door. Man This is Miss So-and-so. She wants to talk to you. Just like that. So did you know? Let them speak in there. She said it was our man. She said what happened? And I just told us. And Mama said, Listen. I said, You know me. I said, you know, I would never, ever do anything to bring any sort of disrespect to you. This unit, this uniform, this command. I said, you know, I would never, ever do anything like that. And she said, Well, service, what could it be? I said, you know, probably because I wore makeup. You know, it was silly stuff. It was silly stuff like. But I honestly think, ma'am, that is because she just does not like me because of the color of my skin. I said, And I've never done anything to her. I was never rude. I was never, never unprofessional. I said nothing. I said utmost respect, you know, addressed her as Mrs. So-and-so. Everything. So then she said, Do you want Sergeant so-and-so to go with you when you deliver the trunk? I said, Yes, ma'am. Could you could you please do that? Because, of course, his unit had to clean up his stuff. And they they they cataloged everything and they put it in this black, you know, heavy duty Foot Locker. Yeah, Foot Locker. So it was sealed. I did not know what was in it. I did not have access to anything. All I was given, I think, wasn't available to hand to her. And it had the keys and everything else in it. So she's going through it. Her and this woman, they were there and they're going through everything. So the wife was like, where's his laptop? Trying to you know, I said, I don't know. I said, Everything that's in there is something that was passed by his commander. I said, I had no access to this. I don't know. I said, if you find something missing, I said, you have to contact the commander. I said, I had no access to this. I don't know. Excuse me. Because I'm pretty sure she wanted to accuse me of bringing through that, you know? And I took his laptop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was. I mean, okay, that that experience was horrible. From day one, all the way through till, like, when me and another. Another one of my coworkers had to go and meet, meet the casket coming off of the plane. I had the wife. She had the father. The father was the pin up the primary next of kin. She was the person, not the secondary next of kin. And this young lady was just off the chain. I had never, ever experienced anything like that in my life. And I. It just it just took me by surprise that here it is this day and time and someone does not like you and you are wearing a uniform. Your husband wore this uniform to protect and defend, you know, the Constitution of the United States and, you know, all enemies, foreign and domestic. But you don't like me because I'm black. And when when I had to, you know, I had to I had to drive up to Appleton to meet with her, to have her sign papers. You know, And I'm like, okay, this is this form right here that you need to sign. This is what this is for. After I leave here, I will take it down to the Vienna, Austria stuff. But but the kicker was when he came, you know, nobody came home. And my friend, she had she had to go in to make sure that that the, you know, he was presentable for the family. And she had to tell them, you know, I really think that you should consider having a closed casket and all this other kind of stuff. So, you know, I'm sitting there and I'm like, you know, is everybody okay? You know how they were doing? And then, like these little snotty, large like, what do you think? What do you think? No, we're not okay. I was like, okay. You know, just like that, You know, I never say anything. So then when her turn came, so, you know, the family went in and all I can remember was this loud scream and, you know, and. And she ran out. And, you know, when when, when, when it was all done, you know, because my sister drove up with me. So, you know, she's like, how did it go? And I was like, so I can't I really can't wait for this to be over and done with. So then it was that. And then the last thing was when they had the memorial service and at his, his high school and I had to have her sign papers and I was like, I need for you to resign this because I had you sign on the wrong line. I said, But this is what this is for. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then I had her sign all of.

ROWELL: All of her paperwork.

METTS: All of her paperwork, and I made sure that everything was signed, right. And then after I left her, I drove down to the VA r o down in Milwaukee, met with my friend and said, Can you make sure that this is okay? Is everything good to go? She was like, Yeah. So then that was done. And then I called, you know, my my point of contact down at Fort Knox. And I told him, okay, this is what I did today. This is done. And then he was like, okay, so, you know, being closed out your log because then it was like they call it a diary, but it was a log. And I remember one mom saying, I want the diary. I was like, There is no diary. And she was like, well, I've heard that there's a diary. I want to see his diary. I said, It's a log. And she thought it was a.

ROWELL: Diary and.

METTS: Like she wanted to see it, you know, like it. I was like Mama said, there is no diary. I said, It's a log. It's a log that we have to keep, that we have to write in every day. So I wrote my stuff and sent it to him and I was like, Am I done? He said, Yes. Our miss says, you're done. I said, okay, thank. Yeah. So that was that. And then every year you had to be recertify again to be recertify. And then this was like this recertification was like that back in, in March, I think it was in March. And I was like, I told my my brigade, I said, Why do you have me sitting here for this recertification when I'm going to retire? You know, like in April or May? I'm I'm going to be doing my my leave. You know, why Why am I saying I said, this is stupid. I said, this is stupid for you to have me sit in here and do this. And then you assign me a case and then I have to leave because I've got, you know, I'll be on transitional leave. I'm done. So they pulled me out of there and she was there and she made some little snarky remarks. And I'm just looking at her, just looking at her. And I was like, Yeah, I'm going to make sure that I don't have to come back here. So then I called and I was like, I don't think that it's fair. It's not right for me to be participating in this because I'm going to be retiring, not transition permanently, or say, I will be going on terminal leave. I said, And that's not right. That's not fair. So it was like, okay, so you're right and you don't have to do it. I was like, okay, fine.

ROWELL: When you said she made a snide remarks towards you, can you can you define who that was?

METTS: It was. It was it was this lady who she was like the, I guess the family coordinator or something for like military personnel and their families.

ROWELL: Okay. So you worked with her?

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. So she was. She was the one. Yeah.

ROWELL: She did not treat you respectfully either.

METTS: No, no, no, she did not. And I was like, I'm done with you, too. And, you know, and any anybody else would snap back at her. But, you know, I didn't. Yeah. So when, when, when it was a break or whatever, I called my brigade and I was like, you need to take me off of this. I don't. I don't need this. This is dumb. I don't it's senseless for me to be in here doing this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was. I never forgot. I never, ever, ever forgot that young lady. Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. Very difficult.

METTS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, sometimes I think about it like, how are you? I wonder how she's doing. You know, when I was like, You may not like me because of my skin color, but I'm pretty sure you enjoy those benefits that you get come in and every month because, you know, I assisted you with the paperwork to make sure that you received those benefits that you rightfully earned due to your husband's service. Yeah. You know, so it's like you might not remember my name. Wow. Yeah.

ROWELL: You worked with her a long time.

METTS: Yeah, I. You know what? I was I with her for, like, three months. I think I was with her for, like, three months, but it wasn't something like I had to see her, like, every day. You know, I would call her, like, every week or something like that. And just to give her update and just to check on her to see how she was doing. Is there anything that you need? Are you okay? You know, I learned that kind of stuff because she was I think she was kind of upset because she was not the the peanut in her father in law was and and her her father in law was casualty assistance officer was somebody that I worked with and, you know, was like, hey, how's it going for you? And, you know, just like, yeah, well, and I was like you said, I don't know. And she was like, Yeah, the wife. And I was like, Yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: So and so when you're recounting this, this behavior towards you, but this was it. All one widow, this, this. insurrection or was it did you have this kind of experience with a couple of people or. It was mostly.

METTS: Her. It was her, you know, her situation was the one that that stood out the most. And then there was another one. There was another one where it was me and the chaplain and we had to track the wife down. And. So we're you know, you're getting out of the car and they see you and your dress screams and the neighbors are nosy, you know, are you here for someone's soul? And we were like, we can't tell you that. You know, we're not at liberty to say that. We're looking for, you know, the wife, you know, Do you know we know where she can be right now? I know you are. So this is this is when we had to go down to one of the little outlet malls or somewhere down here because she she worked there and she was not at work, but she was I guess she was a student or something. So then her friend was trying to find out why we were there and we were like, we cannot divulge that information to you. You know what? We really need to speak to her. Is there a way that you can get in contact with her? So then she called and said, Yeah, there's some people from the army here and they really need to talk to you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So Nan got her, you know, spoke to her on the phone and she was like, What's up? I said, Well, the information that we have and said, we cannot discuss it here. I said, We need to see you, you know, face to face in private. Is there a way that we can meet you somewhere? So we met her back at her house and she had a friend with her and it was myself and a chaplain. And we were like, Are you sure that you want. And she was to me, it was like she was kind of flippant about it. Like, I don't care, you know, since you go to say you can say it in front of her and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we're like, okay, you know? So then told her the news and everything like that. And so then the chaplain was left speaking with her. And then I went outside and called the casting assistant office down at Fort Knox and said, okay, you know, we've made contact with the wife, told her what was going on. I said, But I have to tell you this. And he was like, what is this term? As I said, one of her friends is here and she's calling all of their friends, letting them know. I said, So I want you to know that. And he said, okay, I'm glad. I'm glad you let me know. So, yeah, so so her friend is out there calling everybody on the phone saying what had happened.

ROWELL: Yeah, she's saying it to everybody, right?

METTS: So that I was I was mad about that because I thought, that's not that's not cool. That's not something that a friend should do. So yeah, so all of all of my times and the, you know, casualty assistance officer or casualty notification officer did not get not like that. And then in speaking with other people from the reserves that had to do that duty, they told me, yeah, this you know, we experienced that too. We had families tell us, just give us the flag. We don't want you here. We don't need you here. You can go now. Yeah. You know, and this is this painful, you know, it's painful because all you're trying to do is do your job. Do you think that we want to be the one to tell you about your loved one?

METTS: I. I didn't. I didn't.

METTS: I didn't. I didn't like that. And then there was some people who were like, you know, for me, that was an honor. And I couldn't I couldn't see that. Yeah, I could see that because for me, that was like I was the bearer of bad news about your loved one. And. It was like I. I had inflicted some sadness to you or upon you. And I didn't. I didn't. I didn't like it. And all I could, all I could always think about was how would my mom react? How would my sister react? You know, cause Jordan was. Jordan was little. She went to work. I still had somebody given her my swag or something like that. But. Yeah, but but those. Those incidents with those. Yeah, but I never, never, ever forgot that, you know, woman. Never, ever forget. Never, never forgot her.

METTS: Her rudeness, her, you know.

METTS: Do you think that things like that could not be present or still be in, I guess in society? And then then it it's almost like carry. But how can you be so naive, you know, when when you experience things in your military career, you know, like somebody saying color or, you know, something like that, you know, But, you know, here here was this this young woman, you know, probably maybe maybe 19 or 20 at the time or something. And I don't know. And then, you know, she's acting like this and her friends are over there. And I was like, okay. Yeah. I mean, I need to hurry up and get over here. So.

METTS: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: You mentioned when you encountered the first woman, you discussed the first will that your your contact at Fort Knox understood what you were telling them and respected your and respected your experience that you had with this person?

METTS: Yeah. Yeah, he did in that, you know, that that meant a lot to me too. And he he was probably taken aback when I said what I said. Yeah. Cause, you know, cause he was like, I'm sure, Sergeant, you know. Was it something that you said? Something that you did? I said, No, sir. I said no. Yeah. No. And then he said, Well, what do you think it could be? That's when I told him. I said, Well. I said, I think I might have a little bit too much melanin. I said it just like that. And he got real quiet.

METTS: And he said, okay, seven minutes. You said okay? Yeah. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah.

METTS: I appreciate you sharing those memories with us. Yeah. Yeah. It's very difficult. Yeah.

ROWELL: It's not easy in the slightest.

METTS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, you know. You know Kate, I want to do. Is you going to do your job? You know, you want to do your assignment to the best of your ability. You want to do your assignment in a way that brings honor to your commander, to yourself, to your unit, to the military. And that's all I wanted to do. That's all I wanted to do. I was not up there to, you know. None of that stuff. I try not to. I try not to speak to her, you know. You know, I would approach her. It's like, okay, if you need anything, I'm starting over here. You know, all that kind of stuff. You like? Can I get your signature? Because, you know, I'm not going to stay, and I'm pretty sure she was happy. No, I'm not going to stay. I'm just here to get your signature on these forms because I need. I need to get it back to the regional office before they close so they can start processing this.

METTS: How was it? You know it. You know you. You know that?

METTS: You know, people you know, I had a sergeant major, you know. Ceremonies. We're at the coffee house like this, right over the net. Wow. You know that. Or you know, one one soldier getting injured when she's a drill sergeant school and then the commander and then the commander, the star major blaming you for everything. You know, like you need to think because, like, I can only do what I can do with the paperwork. I said, I don't have this. I don't have that. We were just informed about this, you know, So, I mean, we're.

ROWELL: Trying to help people at their most vulnerable.

METTS: Being kind of bitten. Yes.

ROWELL: Yes, that's for sure.

METTS: Yeah.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, when.

METTS: Would I do it all over again? Yeah. Yeah. Parts? Yeah. Parts of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's. For me. It was. It was always the people. Yeah, I always think.

METTS: People. All right.

METTS: All right. I'm babbling.

ROWELL: Right now. Yeah. Let's take a pause here. I think. And segment five part of the interview with Carrie Metz continued on Journey January, February 2nd.

METTS: 2023. Okay. My God.

ROWELL: This begins Segment six of the interview with Carrie. DMX continued on February 2nd, 2023. So we were just discussing your career as it came to a close with the Army. Is there anything else you'd like to say? Any memories of that, of either that particular time or just of your service that you'd like to talk about before we move on to your life as a veteran?

METTS: So. I know that the.

METTS: Military is something that not.

METTS: A lot of people.

METTS: Would like to become a part of. But it's this huge organization that is really. I've always said that that that the military is a huge organization, but it's almost kind of small because it's almost like someone knows you, who knows you, who knows you. And once you've made a connection with people, it's it's a connection to the last till the dirt is thrown on you. And the only connections that that I don't have are from those that I went through basic training. And it was down in Fort Jackson. But there was there was one there. There's there's a few that I can call. And I think her name was Brenda Washington. Linda Williams Linda Williams was the oldest one through our basic training in 80, in the entire Rena Jett. And Trina Jett was the person whom I would bring home with me when I say bring home, bring the grandma's house. And we would go to grandma's house, intervene, and Jett would come with me to grandma's house. And I really wish that I had kept in contact. With to Rita. Like the other people, like my sister and Johnny. But ours. Yeah. Johnny Runners. I said your name? Rita Watson. Yeah. Rita Watson. I said your name. Laura Yeager. Yeah. I said your name a lot. Birdie Couser. Doctor. Bernie Couser. Who? Who's part of this? I am not invisible. Yes, Doctor. Birdie Couser. I said your name. Who else? Who else? Sergeant Major Michael Harlan. Yes. I said your name.

METTS: I can't remember his name.

METTS: Kevin said your name. Sorry, Cat, but I can't remember your name. But, you know, you were part of good memories, too. And brown and, Colonel. For Ruth or Vanderveen. I can't remember her name. Her. She was. She was my. My female commander in the drill sergeant unit. And who else? General Marsha Anderson and General Joni Mitchell. All of those. And and a whole lot more of, you know, Kimberly Chiles. Tamara just said, Yeah, that's it. Yeah. It's a journey to, you know, our, our, our little thing. When we went out to dinner that one time. But I won't, I won't put us out on blast for that. But yeah you know it's, it's the people that I've met along the way. It's the people that I met and I cannot forget the queens and sharing the dream and. I forgot. I forgot Kathy and Kathy Shearer. You can be the queens over there, you know, And she in a whole.

METTS: Whole lot of.

METTS: Good people, you know, I can see their faces. I cannot remember their names. But those people, those people that I served with, they really, really made all of my years in the military, even even like the spouses like Debbie, who, you know, keep in contact with Debbie, who, you know, all of those people who else? The bells, their. I'm pretty sure they're both now colonels. Colonel Bills. His his his wife and. And and and him, you know, and, you know, just good, good people. People that were good to me during my time in the service and just.

METTS: Means a lot to you.

METTS: He got me through some things.

METTS: Yeah. I mean.

METTS: I can even say like my last unit when when I was in there all the time, when I was, you know, living at Children's Hospital from like September to November with my daughter. And and then when I would come in on weekends, most. How's your daughter doing? You know, she's doing good. Okay. Good. Okay, good. And, you know, you know, all that kind of stuff. It's it's those things, you know, that got me through. Even. Even when. When one of the people there, a full time person, she was she was a really evil person. And she tried to have me brought under charges for, assault. And I was like, no. And so yeah, yeah, she was. She, she was, she was being, she was evil. And I remember her even for telling children. My commander was like, Sir, I said, if I were to assault her, if I had physically assaulted her, I said I would ensure that the evidence would be admitted. So you know, but it was, it was people, even people like her and even people like that. That young woman who I was the casualty assistant officer for. I can, I can say that they had a part of my military career because they were also responsible for memories and for how I had conducted myself. The friends that I made, the friends that I'm still in contact with today. You know, Jim Collins, you know, Johnny Barnes and all of them. They made me appreciate and understand and realize that you have you have your flesh and blood family and you have your military family. And you can't get through that service without both of them because you need both of them to survive. You need both of them to be successful. You need both of them to support you and get you through. And I appreciate I appreciate, you know, what my mom and my sister and Jordan who didn't know, but, you know, my mom and my sister for being there, for supporting me, you know, throughout all of those years of my service, because I would not have been able to do it without them. And I appreciate my military family for listening to me and for being there for me. We always had we always had a joke like, okay, if you're going to do something stupid, make sure you do it on tape, period it on the first 15 so we can get you out. So that was that was like the joke. And I am forever grateful for both of those families. Yeah. To have been there for me to get me through it. And because I wouldn't have I don't think I would have lasted.

METTS: Without either one of them. And that that's that's important.

METTS: You know, military personnel, they need their families behind them because you can't do it without them. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: So you finished up your career and retired in June of 2013. Is that correct?

METTS: Yes. Okay.

ROWELL: And did you have a celebration?

METTS: Yes. I was wrapping up my my my studies at Mount Mary University with the Post back in Spanish. And any time you had a a foreign language as a major, you had a requirement to do study abroad. So I went to Peru. I was in Peru for like five weeks. And on June 1st, I was officially retired from the military. And we were at a restaurant in our Cheaper Peru. And it was out of all of my mountain where he study abroad, people there. And they celebrated me being retired from the military. And that was that was cool. Yeah, that was cool.

ROWELL: Really sounds a.

METTS: Very unique moment. Yeah, it was. It was. It was.

ROWELL: And so how was it for you transitioning into being a civilian full time role?

METTS: It was it was totally different. And I, I think I, I think that my transition was not as difficult as people that were like what we call like, real army, like people coming off like, you know, like a real active duty post, you know? Because when I was a guard, it was like, okay, 730 to 4, you know? All right. You you drive in on post. You change into your uniform at 4:00, you're done. And you leave and you you live like a normal life. So when it was time for me to do that transition, it was almost like I really didn't have any difficulties in it because it was almost like I had one foot in the, you know, military world and one as a civilian. So I would say that the only difficulty came when I was really trying to find jobs. And then it was like I was talking to one friend and he said he said, on average, you will only be in a job for two years before you find one that you like after you retired. I was like, Really? I said, Because, you know, I said, that's that's about right. So every job that I had after getting out of the military, after leaving the air, it had been about, you know, two, two years average. So this job where I am now at Concordia, the longest, the longest because after after Mount Mary and then went to Peru and then then I was working as a English language learner, like a tutor for eels and mountaineering. I enjoyed that. I enjoyed that so much. I really enjoyed that. And and I was there. And then while I was there, I was doing my my master's in Student personnel administration. And I was hired at Mount Mary. And then I was there for about, I don't know, like a year, year and a half or something like that. And then and then I went over to Concordia. And then I've been at Concordia. It'll be five years next month. That's the longest I was like, okay, I've been here for five years. This is the longest. So I'm going there. Yeah. Yeah. With some stuff in between there. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: And then so you mentioned that you had a lot of skills that you felt kind of were actually you could transfer from your bosses, from your positions in the army to your civilian career. Can you tell me a little about that?

METTS: Yeah. Really? Really. With my current position at Concordia, I would say, because the when I was a student there at Gaza, he was the director over that department. He had, kind of had the dream to have that department. So when I was a student there and I would always go up there and talk to an Amber filmmaker who was like the the VA school's certified official. So I would always pop my head in there whenever I was on campus because all of my classes were like evening classes. So if I if I went on campus, it would be to like, print some papers off or something like that. So at one point it was like, if I could ever get, get a position here, would you apply for, would you? And I was like, Yeah, sure. And so but we know how higher Ed works. I said, You know, it takes forever. So he would always ask me and I was like, Yeah. So he was like, okay, I've got the approval, I got the funding and I want you to apply for the job. He said, But, you know, I just can't, you know, give you the job you have to interview for the job. I said, okay. So I think I think all of my experience with admin and personnel and the fact that I'm female because he had said, I really need some. One female in here that can talk to the female veterans when they come in here. He said, because there are some things that I'm pretty sure that they don't feel comfortable talking to me about and I really need somebody in here. I said, okay. So then they hired me for the job. And he had said, You know, it's your ad, me and stuff. And, you know, you being a female, that. Right. You know, that that were the pointers in being in the job and I've been been I've been there since and thanks and I appreciate you guys and thank you so much. Thank you.

ROWELL: And that's that appears very different for you experientially. And in terms of the just the context. Then one of the other times you described when you were hired because you were a female. You're you know, you're black again, very different. Very different in that way that.

METTS: You were hired for use.

ROWELL: And valued for it.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. That was very different. Yeah, very different. Yeah. And, you know, in her case, when I retired, I said I'm never. I'll never work with soldiers again. Never, ever. Never, ever. And here I am working at Concordia as the veteran outreach coordinator. Or, you know, still working with bears. Yeah.

ROWELL: Do you want to say a little bit about why you were so adamant when you you know, at first, you know, and then what kind of changed your mind?

METTS: Because it was it was it was me and then two two other two other females that when we were on the Army Reserve base and we had we had both said and one in particular, she was just adamant like, I'll never ever work with, you know, soldiers. She said, I never, ever work with soldiers again. You know, I did. And then I think I think she stayed true to her word. And. I think it was probably because.

METTS: We I think we.

METTS: Poured we poured a lot into our jobs. And you always wanted to make sure that you you did. You did your job, you know, to standard, you know, top notch. But then you would have some individuals that just didn't care or couldn't appreciate it and they didn't appreciate it, you know, like like they took it for granted. And I can I can say I can say that there were there were two individuals and they they had been called up to go overseas and they wanted to get their their promotion package together. And they were like, can you help us with our package? I was like, I'm not going to do it for you. I'll help you, you know, just like that. So the a one of them got mad, I shouldn't have to do this and blah, blah, blah, blah was like, Well, then I guess you don't want to be promoted there, right? So he he did everything like what he was supposed to do and both of them submitted their packet and they got promoted. And then they were like, they came back and they were like, submit. We wanted to give you something. And I was like, okay. And then he was like, you know, But our wives were like, Why are you doing that? Why are you by herdsmen? They were like, If they had bid for something that we wouldn't have been promoted. And and both of them had put their money together and they had bought me a purse like a little coach purse. And I still have it to this day. yeah. Yep. Yep, yep. Yep.

ROWELL: Really nice.

METTS: Gesture. Appreciation. A really nice gesture. Yeah. And. And I would. I would. I would do things. I would do things for people like. Like my sergeant major. He. He was coming up on this on this board because he had not had any, any transition, any movement throughout his career, like he was stagnant. And I said, all right, top. I said, I said, I'll do I'll do this for you. I said, let me in. And I helped him with this stuff. And I was like, What's wrong with you? He was like, You know what? I was up for?

ROWELL: McCoy Someone so say that.

METTS: You know, she had done more to dash one for me. I said, Well, I said, Top. I said, This is the last interest on your set. You got everything. Do you remember where you had been? Blah, blah, blah, blah? He said, Yeah. I said, okay. I said, I said, Well, here. I said, You, you pencil all of this. And I said, and I'll type it up for you. So that's what I would do. I was like, you, Pennsylvania, and I'll type it up for you. Yeah. So that was that. And he ended up, you know, getting picked up for in Sergeant Major and all that kind of stuff. His wife was was in the reserve, too, and she was coming up for promotion. And and I scanned in her documents and she ended up getting promoted. So, you know, it was like all of this stuff, you know, I was like, you got promoted again, you know, And it was like, all right. And and he would say he would say, Sorry, man. They had before you. It was like, what? You know? But, you know, it was it was like he was he was good to me. And when, you know, you know, it was. It's like this. I would have done anything. And I told my soldiers, I said I would do anything for you as to what if you asked me off? I said I will bend over like Gumby for you. I said, But if you ask me, your ass, it is done. Yes, it is done.

ROWELL: And in the air. Just to be mutual. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah, yeah. Because, you know. And when it went. When it was my last day on Rio. My gosh, that was. And I stood up before them and I was like, you know what? I said? I just want to tell you are saying you. You know, just just thank you for allowing me to take care of you. You know, I said I did my best. I said, just just thank you. I said I had a blast. You know, I enjoyed it. And and they came up to me and hugged me and shook my hand and our kids. Thank you for taking care of us, you know? And I was like, because they didn't they don't want me to retire so much. You can't go. I said, I got to go. I said, I can't stay here. You know, I said, I got to go. But yeah, yeah, it was it was it was good. I liked I, I liked the respect that the. I like this. This one company commander. Well, he, he ended up being a battalion commander. I went when his senior human resources sergeant, she had a child with special needs as she was married him and he told me he said this. He said, Sergeant Major so-and-so. He said, you know, we were talking about Senator So-and-so, about how she can never come to Fort McCoy when it's a weekend. So, you know, you would have like a middle five will be a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And she would always say that she couldn't go because of her child. And I was canceled. But she was military. So the commander, he said and he said, you know, I was talking to my sergeant major and he said, you know, Metz has a daughter with special needs and she's a single mom. He was like, Who? Metz? He was like, yeah. He said, What's wrong with her daughter? And he was like, Well, she has seizures. And I said that kind of stuff. And he was like, But she concentrates. She was like, Yeah, but you wouldn't know it because Metz comes to drill every time she's up there for McCoy was she's supposed to be, you know, it's like, wow. And I was like, Well, you know, I'm I'm a single mom. And I had a chance to get out of the military, but I chose to stay. So the the commander, you know, he was like, yeah, when I say that to my sergeant major, he couldn't believe it. And I was like I said, Well, you know, sir, I said, that's that was my decision. I decided to stay. I said, And that's that's what I did, you know. So when when he said that to me, that that made me feel, you know, that gave me a sense of pride because I did not allow I really tried not to allow what was going on with my daughter to affect my job. You know, people knew about it, you know, But I, I made sure that I came to drill, you know, because that was my job. That was what I was supposed to do. You know, I'm supposed to be here on the weekends. This is my job. Whereas some people would say no. And I even had a female soldier and she was married and had in-laws and she was like, I can't come to drill. You know, my daughter is sick. And I was like, But you have a husband and you have in-laws. You have a stronger support system than I do. And all I have is my mom and my sister.

METTS: To help in. You know.

METTS: And I never I tried not to pass judgment on them, but all I said was, you have a stronger support system than I do. But I'm here on trial weekends and, you know, so. So, yeah, Yeah.

ROWELL: I mean, sometimes you work recognized.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah, I would. I would stay. I would stay late after drill and do do payroll and stuff. And I remember, I remember one commander, he said to me. Yes. Why are you still there? I said, Sir, why are you still there? You know? And I would I would stay. I would stay. Sunday's to like 9:00 at night. Watson and I would stay there and we would get that payroll done because it was like the regulation said you had 72 hours after the last day of Drill. So that was Sunday. Sunday was the last day of drill. So you have Monday, Tuesday, that Wednesday to get that payroll submitted. So we would stay. Sometimes I would be there by myself, but Rita would stay with me the last time Rita would stay with me and we'd get all of that stuff done all at it. Get get that 1379 and all those orders that they, you know, soldiers had done and everything like that. Get all of that stuff. And and I remember I remember one one soldier and she would say, What's going on? I got my eldest, you know, I go, I said, Did you get your earliest? I said, Yeah. I said, okay. Can you tell me when did it say that your drill check was was going to hit your back? And she told me, I said, okay, I'm depending upon you. So basically it was like when I submitted the payroll plan on Sunday, they would get like a notice on like that Tuesday or Wednesday saying this is what their check was going to hit the the their bank. And a lot of them would say something nice harmless. Thank you. I, I have one. I know one of my female officers say I just want to tell you thank you because I depend upon Drew check you know to pay my car note you know even though she had another job that that was her car no money and Yeah. And I was like, okay. So I made sure that I tried my best to make sure that that they got that that that was process work. I had one soldier say, well, Sergeant, on this in these awards for the promotion board. I said, okay. I said, So I want to tell you, I understand. I said, But for me, for me, my priority is to process your. Drew. Okay. So they check it and they said, I said no. And this is that's not to your liking. I said, They knew you let me know. I said, But for me, that's my priority for you. I said, I understand that. You know, you give a couple more, you know, promotion points. I said, Maybe 1 or 2. I said, But I need to make sure that that your drill pay is processed in a timely manner so that you can pay your bills, because some of them were just college kids. You know, some of them were single parents, so they needed that extra money for them.

ROWELL: So yeah. And today at Concordia, you are also still serving the event.

METTS: I'm still serving events.

ROWELL: Helping them make their way through their way out. Excellent experience.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's that's for the young ones that come through there and just like, my gosh. It's like, you know, like, are you in a guard? You know? Didn't you know about this tuition assistance that, you know, you know, you can get this, you know. No, I didn't know about that. It was like they didn't tell you about this. I was like, well, you need to take this form and fill it out and bring it back to Barb and all this kind of stuff. And like, you need to handle your money. This is money that you're missing out on, you know, all of that kind of stuff. So. So you're doing.

ROWELL: A similar thing. Yeah.

METTS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: So thinking about your own experience within the Army, what would you would you have anything to say to young women of color today who might consider joining the military? Yes. Or joining the army?

METTS: Specifically, Yes. And this is what I would say. I would say this in the in the words of Sergeant Mallory. And thank you, sir. Well, we you know, we just we just lost. Just lost. Sergeant Mallory. And and I remember Sergeant Mallory always saying to me because he was a cover girl, because he covered cover girl commander. Because he would always take me to. To to go recruiting. Yeah. And he said I never, ever had a problem with female recruits. He said they would know off the bat that they wanted to join. He said it was always the males that I had the problem. And I and I think for us women, we did it because we saw it as an opportunity. For financial enhancement. We saw the military as an opportunity to gain skills that we could use in the civilian world or something like that. We saw the military as an opportunity for benefits to get a degree. And I say that to anyone. Will it be easy? No, it won't. Will it be worth it? Yes, it will. Because if you need money to go to school, if you need a skill that will help you in the civilian world, then the military is it. And when when my soldiers would come back after they had finished basic training in AIG and they filled out that that form for the Montgomery GI Bill, then I would tell them, listen, you have ten years to use this. I said, take advantage of this because you can get a degree. I said it and it will help you in the civilian world, but it will also help you with promotion points in the military, which means that you could get promoted, you can get an increase in pay. I said, This is what you need to do. And I always told you that. Always, always, always. So basically, it's like if you don't do anything else for the military, then join to get some educational benefits. Use it to your advantage. And that's the best way. What I would tell anybody, leave the state of Wisconsin, Sergeant Mallory was say leave leave the country of Wisconsin.

ROWELL: For new opportunities.

METTS: Or new opportunities.

ROWELL: And even if you come back even.

METTS: If you come back because you come back different. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that.

ROWELL: And then is there anything we didn't cover today that you would like to discuss or the other days?

METTS: Other days? There's I, I thought that it was the civilians that ran the military. But, you know, it takes it takes the civilians and the military personnel to help run the military. But the thing is, is that there aren't a lot of people willing to raise your right hand and put off combat boots and leave their family and friends and their home for an extended amount of time. There aren't a lot of people that do that. And I would like for people to when you say, thank you for your service and it's and it's almost like some of us don't know how you know how to say it because we had to accept that because that was something that that we did and we take pride in it. And it is. So some may say that it seems like it's just a cliche statement, you know. But I can I can remember going to to a McDonald's over there on Silver Spring and and there's one black guy was saying, are you in the military? It's like, duh. I got on the uniform. And I was like, Yeah. And he said, No, I can never do that. I can never do that. I said, That's okay. I said, Because somebody had to be the bigger man. And I said, But, you know, I put this on so that you don't have to worry about someone snatching you out of your bed at night. I said, So, you know, we got you, me and my friend over here. So we got you. And said, We got this. Yeah. So. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, it's like. Like. We do it. We every everyone does it for their own reasons. You know, some might do it because everyone in their family was in the military. They have a family history. I did it because I needed money for college. You know, some people do it to get away and all that kind of stuff. But I. I have enjoyed it. I met some nice people along the way. I have done things that were probably against regulation. And you know you like him. If he can remember, if you can get a little bit of that out of there. Yeah. And I will not elaborate on that. The military was very instrumental on who I am today. And. Am. I'm grateful for the House that I receive, that I have accumulated, and I am grateful for the education that I am receiving. I am grateful for them taking care of my daughter when when she had seizure surgery. I am grateful. I am grateful for everything that the military has done for me. And I mean that sincerely and in and yeah.

METTS: Yeah. Yeah. You know, very grateful. Okay.

ROWELL: Well, thank you for your time and care. Thank you, Kate. This concludes the interview with Kari D. Metts On January 5th. January 9th and February 2nd, 2023.