ROWELL: Today is February 27th, 2023. This is an interview with Gina Marie Paige, who served in the United States Air Force from 2005 to 2013. This interview is being conducted by Kate Rothwell in Sussex, Wisconsin, for the I'm Not Invisible Project and the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. So, let's begin with where you grew up.

PAIGE: Sure. I grew up in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. And I lived there until I joined the military.

ROWELL: Did you have any siblings?

PAIGE: Yes, I have one sibling. I have a sister. Her name's Courtney and she's a couple of years older than me.

ROWELL: And what did your folks do?

PAIGE: Well, my dad was a proud truck driver all of my childhood. And then my mom stayed at home pretty much through my childhood and then was doing some part time work while I was a little bit younger and then transitioned to full time work. She now works at the University of Wisconsin, Parkside.

ROWELL: And were there any veterans in your family?

PAIGE: Yes.

ROWELL: Yes. Tell me about them.

PAIGE: Yeah, So I have a couple of veterans in my family. There was both of my grandpas were in the Navy. My uncle was also a captain in the Navy. And then my cousin, who really, as I was thinking about this interview, kind of was my role model. He was in the Air Force, a couple of years older than me. So really kind of let me down my path into the Air Force.

ROWELL: And can you talk a little bit about your education, early education, high school, all that kind of thing?

PAIGE: Yeah. So I grew up in Oak Creek and that is where I went through school. I did I went to Carrolton Elementary School, East Middle School and an Oak Creek High school. And while I was in, I remember there was kind of this time where there were military folks that were at our lunch hour that kind of came in and we're just kind of talking. And so I took that as Barb, and that was kind of what led me down this path to the military.

ROWELL: Okay. Do you want to talk a little bit about that experience for you as a young high schooler taking the as well?

PAIGE: Yeah. So, I remember it was I'm pretty sure it was my sophomore year of high school. They had been kind of rotating through the lunch hours and kind of talking about the service. And that was right as my cousin was joining the Air Force. And so, it was kind of like this connection of like, Ooh, that sounds interesting. And at the time, I really didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. And so, I decided to take the ASVAB, and I ended up doing really well. And so, I got quite a bit of phone calls, you know, telling me like I could be an astronaut or whatever, you know, it was like crazy stuff. And my parents are like, I don't know. And so, they were very adamant that I try maybe to go do a semester at college before I went in and signed the dotted line. So, I did. And ultimately that didn't work out and I ended up in the military. But I just remember like taking the test and it was really interesting, just like it was broken down into different sections. I remember that, but I don't remember much about like what was actually on it. I just remember it being felt like a long time. And I know I did better than some of my peers because-because I had I had some other friends that do so. So, yeah.

ROWELL: Did a lot of your peers where they or were a lot of them interested also and joining.

PAIGE: You know, I think – I think some folks just took it to be honest like the one that I remember specifically. She never went in. And I don't think that there were a lot who actually tested it in high school that ended up going in. I think of the veterans. I do know from my school. They actually that was like a later decision, like maybe they went to college and then they were like, this doesn't work. Or maybe they didn't go to college and we're kind of lost and then decided to take it. So.

ROWELL: So you mentioned that college didn't work out for you as well when you were younger. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

PAIGE: Yeah. It was interesting. So, as I was kind of in high school, I really struggled to figure out what I wanted to do. I was taking at that time, this was the early 2000s. And so, distance learning was kind of a new thing, and we were like a pilot school for distant learning sign language. So, I took that as a language course. And so, we did an online class, and we were plugged in. With the deaf school here in Wisconsin and a few other school districts and. And we would learn and that was kind of the thing that I grasped on to. I really enjoyed it. And so I decided, you know, if I'm going to try something, I'm going to try that. And so, I ended up going to the Milwaukee Area Technical College for a sign language interpretation. I did a summer semester. And a fall semester. And my heart just wasn't in it. I was really struggling. I just didn't feel like I was in the right place. And I kind of kept thinking back about the military, you know, I had thought about it before, but my parents were like, just try school, you know, just try college. You know, like not saying that they wouldn't support me in the military, but they just wanted, I think, for me to explore other things. And also, I think they were nervous. I was the first female in my family to be in the military. And so, I think that was that was nerve wracking. Right. And obviously, it was post 911. And so, it was a very, you know, difficult time for our nation. And so, I-I had a close friend and her family. Her dad had been in the Marines. And I think her mom might have been in the Marines, too. And we were coming up on the presidential election of four. And we made a bet.

PAIGE: And it was of her candidate one, I would join the military and if my.

PAIGE: Candidate won, she would join the military. Needless to say.

PAIGE: I lost the.

PAIGE: Bet.

PAIGE: And I went back to the recruiters and I said, sign me up. I'm ready to go. Okay.

ROWELL: And so how did your family react when you finally did enlist?

PAIGE: You know, I think it was a lot of mixed emotions. So.

PAIGE: Again, it was post 911. And so they were obviously in need of of military members. And so when I went back, I was in the delayed entry program because there were so many folks who were going in that it was like there was a wait. And so.

PAIGE: So I.

PAIGE: Had kind of this period where I was just waiting. And I think that was almost harder for my family because it was like, okay, she's going to do this, but we don't know when it's going to happen. And I went in Open General because I just wanted to leave. I was like, I'm ready to go. I need to get out of here. And so I remember I got a call. I want to say I signed up like sometime.

PAIGE: Around fall.

PAIGE: Winter. And I got a call in late January, early February, and they said, Hey, we had someone who was on a weight management program. They didn't make weight. We have an empty spot. Do you want to go? You'll leave March 1st. And I was like, Sounds good.

PAIGE: I'm ready.

PAIGE: And I remember my parents, I think. Then it was like, this, this is really happening. And so.

PAIGE: I think it was it.

PAIGE: Was definitely tough. But I'm also really fortunate. I have really great parents who supported me through everything and let me make decisions and will support me whether they think those are, you know, the best for me or not. So it was I was glad that I had their support.

ROWELL: Okay. And you said you won an open general. Did you have any lessons that you kind of had your eye on?

PAIGE: No, I can tell you the one I didn't have my eye on. It was security forces, which is what I originally got. Yeah, That's another fun story.

ROWELL: Do you want to tell it?

PAIGE: Yes. So? So, yeah. So, you know, it's like you're.

PAIGE: I can't even remember what week in, you know, it's getting towards the end and that's the day that, you know, folks who came in with a secured, you know, spot knew their job. But then all of us who are open, general, it was like felt like a college letter day, right? Like you.

PAIGE: Go into the.

PAIGE: Classroom and you're sitting in these.

PAIGE: Desks and they basically give you.

PAIGE: Your, you know, your career field and where you're headed.

PAIGE: And so they they handed me my letter and I was like, what?

PAIGE: Security forces, military police? Like, that's not me.

PAIGE: You know? And at that time, you know, I get it. Recruiters obviously just want to get people in the door so they're not going to tell you that that's where most people are going to go.

PAIGE: And so I was like, this is not for me. Like at basic training was the first time I ever shot a weapon. Like, I'm not good with.

PAIGE: Blood, which I know, right? Like military, not good with weapons. I'm not good with blood. And so I remember I raised my hand.

PAIGE: It was like, I can't do.

PAIGE: This, you know, which I'm sure the, the, the folks there were like, good Lord. But so they sent me to speak to a psychiatrist.

ROWELL: And how did that go?

PAIGE: It was interesting. So I just kind of had to talk through everything. And I remember he like he's like, okay, so you don't like weapons, you don't like blood, And you joined the military. And I was like, correct. I did, Yes. Definitely had a different view of what life was going to be like. But they ended up changing my career field and they were like, All right, well, we're going to send you to Fort Meade instead. And I was like, What's that? Fort Meade? And they're like, you're going to be a photographer. And I was like, What? But I was like, okay, cool. That sounds.

PAIGE: Awesome. I did.

PAIGE: Video production in high school, so it was kind of like.

PAIGE: Well, you know, if I if I did that, I'm sure this is similar.

PAIGE: And so that's how I ended up with my career. Field Cool.

ROWELL: All right. So before we get any further, let's kind of circle back around just back to basic, right? So what do you remember about the day of your induction?

PAIGE: Like the day I arrived at basic training.

ROWELL: Or the day that you you know, you saw him basically, and you heard the military official.

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, it's so funny because just the other week I was downtown, I was at the downtown Milwaukee at the seeing the Symphony orchestra, and I was with my sister.

PAIGE: And we walked by this hotel and I was like, hey, that's the hotel that I.

PAIGE: Stayed at the night before I enter the military. And then, you know, we walked two blocks down.

PAIGE: To the blue building, the federal building, and.

PAIGE: Raised our right hand and, you know, took the oath. And, you know, I think about it all the time any.

PAIGE: Time I'm downtown.

PAIGE: Because I remember going that night prior and it it just felt weird.

PAIGE: Because it was just like, you know, you don't know what to expect. Luckily, I had.

PAIGE: There was another female who was actually from one of our rival high schools, and she stayed with me in that room and we laughed together, which was really cool because we were able to kind of form a friendship during the delayed entry program, and that really helped to have someone else like that. I could be like, okay, like at least I know someone, right? Because otherwise it's like you're, you're just going by yourself. And that's scary at that age, right?

PAIGE: Yeah. And so I remember us spending the night in the.

PAIGE: Hotel and it was just kind of weird, like an odd feeling. I don't think I got much sleep. And then I remember going to the federal building.

PAIGE: We did the the oath and.

PAIGE: Did the enlistment ceremony, and my family was there.

PAIGE: And then they took us to the airport in Milwaukee. And I remember saying goodbye to my parents.

PAIGE: And kind of standing at the gate. And I'm pretty sure I cried a little bit and.

PAIGE: Got on that plane and got.

PAIGE: Down to San Antonio.

PAIGE: And I remember we had to sit at the.

PAIGE: Airport for quite some.

PAIGE: Time. And I don't remember if it was my recruiter or somebody else.

PAIGE: Who was like, Just make sure you get some caffeine and before you go. And so I remember I think I drank like two red balls in the airport and I was just wired like, my heart's already like pounding.

PAIGE: And then they came and they picked us up.

PAIGE: And they took us in the bus and we got there.

PAIGE: And we were one of the first groups.

PAIGE: To.

PAIGE: Arrive. And that did not.

PAIGE: Work out.

PAIGE: In our favor.

PAIGE: I just remember we had to sit in this hallway and we had to sit cross-legged.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: We were sitting like that.

PAIGE: For.

PAIGE: Hours waiting for the rest of the people from our group to arrive. And then I remember going to bed that night and we didn't get much sleep at all.

PAIGE: It's definitely interesting.

ROWELL: How do you stand by that caffeine recommendation or.

PAIGE: You know, maybe not Red Bull, maybe something a little bit milder because the heart was already beating pretty fast.

PAIGE: But yeah.

ROWELL: And what was your mood at that time? What was what were you thinking as you were sitting in that hallway, you know, cross-legged, legs, a bunch of other people and.

PAIGE: Definitely like questioning whether I made the right.

PAIGE: Choice.

PAIGE: And thinking and I got a.

PAIGE: Few more weeks of this like.

PAIGE: Boy, boy.

PAIGE: But yeah.

ROWELL: And can you state for me where you went to for basic training?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: Lackland Air Force Base in Texas. All right.

ROWELL: And then so what was it like for you in that transitionary period into military life, into training, and were you in a mixed gender group or all female?

PAIGE: Yeah, So I was.

PAIGE: An all.

PAIGE: Female flight, but we had.

PAIGE: A brother flight that was like basically next door in our dorms or barracks.

PAIGE: And so that was obviously interesting. I remember there were a few people who got in trouble because.

PAIGE: We were like sending notes between the vents and the bathrooms because, heaven forbid.

PAIGE: Right? You take a bunch of late teens and like put them in separate things and it's like, yeah, but it was.

PAIGE: It was interesting, to say the least. And yeah.

ROWELL: What was your impression of the other women in your flight?

PAIGE: Well.

PAIGE: There were women from all walks of life. You know, it was really interesting because I remember showing up like not really knowing like what to expect and when, what personalities.

PAIGE: Were going to be like, where people were going to be from.

PAIGE: And. You know, there were I don't want to like stereotype or generalize people, but there were definitely like women of all different, you know, I want to say personalities.

PAIGE: But there were some who were.

PAIGE: Really like a little bit more masculine. There were women who.

PAIGE: Were a little more timid and petite.

PAIGE: And so it was just kind of all over the place. But I think it was really cool because regardless of where we came from or what our backgrounds were, we all came together, you know? And I think that was really cool. We all bonded because we were all going through that same experience of Holy cow.

PAIGE: Like this is crazy. But it was it was really cool there. So a lot of.

PAIGE: Them that I remember, unfortunately, I haven't really kept in touch with many of them because at that.

PAIGE: Time social.

PAIGE: Media wasn't that big, so it was a lot harder.

PAIGE: But there's still a few. Yeah.

ROWELL: So do you remember any names? Gosh, it's okay if you don't know very well.

PAIGE: So Terri.

PAIGE: Was the.

PAIGE: One.

PAIGE: Woman that I met? Well, at that time, we were girl young.

PAIGE: Yeah. Teenagers. Young, young women. So she was the one.

PAIGE: Who was from Wisconsin.

PAIGE: Okay.

PAIGE: Her last name was Dozier.

PAIGE: I think is how you pronounce it.

PAIGE: And we actually ended up in the same flight, which was really cool because then I kind of had that like, body to lean on, although she got in trouble.

PAIGE: So you got in trouble a lot. What happened? She was one of the ones putting the notes between or putting in her canteen.

PAIGE: I still remember that.

PAIGE: To putting in her canteen holder. Yeah. And so that did not end well.

PAIGE: We all had to do pushups for that.

PAIGE: But I remember there was a girl named Sarah.

PAIGE: I can't remember her last name, and I always think about her because I remember she was at least with me and I think other women that were there, she was gay at that time. It was don't ask, don't tell. So that wasn't something that she was going to talk about. But I would always think about her throughout our time just because, you know, all that stuff was going.

PAIGE: On.

PAIGE: You know, through that period and always just boggles my mind how she had to be somebody else for a majority of the day, you know, like really hide her identity. Yeah.

ROWELL: And so did you disclose that to you just like in confidence at the time, or was that kind of a known thing that people didn't mention it to tease or anything?

PAIGE: You know, I think it was.

PAIGE: Probably a combination of both. I remember her talking about it because her and I were on.

PAIGE: The I forget what we call.

PAIGE: I want to call it. It was suicide watch. I hate to say that, but like, we had duty at nighttime, so there was always somebody that was on shift who had to be awake in the dorms. And usually it was two people to keep each other awake and accountable. And so we were just kind of chatting and and talked about it. And especially because she wanted me to like she kept telling me about her hot friend that.

PAIGE: She wanted to set me up with, you know. But yeah.

ROWELL: So, so it was just the night watch generally, or was it was it to make sure that room was safe? What was your impression of that?

PAIGE: Yeah. So I think it was.

PAIGE: A lot of it is to make sure everybody's safe and also to make sure nobody runs away. I know that like, is such a silly thing, right? But like, you're in these dormitories and obviously you're in a barracks, you're in a high stress situation and you're away from your family. And so, you know, there's times when people are just maybe can't see the light at the end of the tunnel and feel like they need to to leave or do something drastic. And so that was, you know.

ROWELL: Consideration. Yeah, Yeah. Did you ever run into anything? But at the time, pretty uneventful.

PAIGE: I think it was pretty on eventful.

PAIGE: For.

PAIGE: The most part. Yeah, I think in our flight we were pretty uneventful. I do remember that there was somebody who tried to run away, but I don't think it was our flight.

ROWELL: So was your brother flight. Maybe just somebody else. I just kind of heard rumors.

PAIGE: Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah.

ROWELL: And so what was your what was your impression of your training instructors? How did how was that for you?

PAIGE: That was interesting.

PAIGE: So we had two.

PAIGE: Male t.

PAIGE: Eyes.

PAIGE: Tech Sergeant Lindsey.

PAIGE: And I can remember he was.

PAIGE: A tech sergeant as well, but it was Sergeant White.

PAIGE: And they.

PAIGE: Were obviously with us during the day. They weren't allowed to be there at night or when obviously we were changing or showering or things like that. They would have somebody else come in like an assistant or a female tie.

PAIGE: But. It was it was definitely interesting. You know, I had a lot of laughs.

PAIGE: I will say, like I'm a person who, you know, obviously I take things seriously, but also like, you know, you have fun.

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, so like when people are getting in trouble, I would always get a kick out of things.

PAIGE: But I felt like, you know, I think the guy is really respected me.

PAIGE: You know, I.

PAIGE: I've always been a hard worker. That's something my parents instilled in me. And so for me, it was, you know, I was I was hard working. And I learned that the structure that the military provided me was what I needed. I didn't realize that until I was there. And I thrive in a structured environment. So, like to have all this stuff, I.

PAIGE: Was just like, okay, fine, give me the challenge.

PAIGE: Like, let's go. And so I think that really helped me be in a good spot.

PAIGE: And not.

PAIGE: Really feel like a target.

PAIGE: All the time.

PAIGE: You know, I do know there there were times where obviously I was a target. We all were, because that's part of it. You know, they need to break you down and rebuild you.

PAIGE: But it was.

PAIGE: Definitely an interesting.

PAIGE: Interesting time.

ROWELL: So and what were some of the things that maybe had the biggest learning curve for you while you were in Basic? Was it the, you know, weapons or the, you know, anything like that? Or did it all kind of fall together as when you got into the rhythm of a structured life?

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, I think.

PAIGE: I think I appreciated all of it. And maybe I can see that now. Looking back, I'm sure at the time, you know, that was not the case. I would say definitely the weapons piece was what was hard for me because I had never dealt with a weapon before. And so that was like a little nerve wracking. But I you know, I felt like I was in good hands, obviously. Like, the training was really good. In fact, I can still remember the acronym. And I always.

PAIGE: Joke about.

PAIGE: This. It was sports slap pole, observe, release, tap, shoot. Right? So when you're trying to if you have an issue with your weapon, that was like the acronym.

PAIGE: But I would.

PAIGE: Say the other piece too, was just the physical fitness.

PAIGE: Piece.

PAIGE: I was a cheerleader in high school and I.

PAIGE: Was pretty fit, but I didn't.

PAIGE: Do like a lot of running or push ups or things like that. And so when I got to basic, that was that was a hard part for.

PAIGE: Me having.

PAIGE: That structure every day and going and working out. And and so that was that was definitely a challenge. But everything else, I mean, there were weird things like, you know, the folding of the shirts and using tweezers to like, get the lines like, just perfect.

PAIGE: I mean.

PAIGE: It wasn't fun, but I also weirdly appreciated it. Maybe that's why I'm a little OCD now. But yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: And are there any specific memories from Basic that you would want to share maybe the time that you got in trouble? I'm not sure. Or just something that left an impression on you.

PAIGE: You know, it's so funny.

PAIGE: My last name was my maiden name, Shiver.

PAIGE: And my tie.

PAIGE: Is used to make fun of me all the time for my last name and being from Wisconsin, because at that time, I had a very thick Wisconsin accent, you know, so like, vague and the way I would say things. So they were.

PAIGE: Constantly.

PAIGE: Making fun of me.

PAIGE: But I will.

PAIGE: Always remember the joke that they would say, What do you get when you cross cross a Chevy Animas or rowdy chevre, Audie?

PAIGE: And that has stuck stuck with me since. So but as far as.

PAIGE: Memories go, I mean, I think one of my funniest.

PAIGE: Memories would be.

PAIGE: So towards the end of basic training.

PAIGE: You do.

PAIGE: I can't remember the name for it, but basically it's like you're going out and you're out of your barracks and you're staying in tents and like, you're, you know, doing all that. I forget what it's called. Maybe it's Warrior Week. I can't remember.

PAIGE: But So you're living in these tents and.

PAIGE: You're out doing all these activities. And so all of us are in this tent. You know, it's like a super long tent. We're in our banks and like, everybody is sleeping with their boots on because we're like scared of scorpions and all this stuff. But we're like sleeping at night.

PAIGE: And laying there and also my arms hanging off and I feel.

PAIGE: Something like.

PAIGE: I are. And I'm like.

PAIGE: What is that? You know? Like, I wake up and I'm just like, kind of looking around and awesome. Somebody else wakes up and all of a sudden the lights go on. Everybody starts screaming and there's a possum.

PAIGE: In our tent. And of course, you know, like it was like the it was the funniest thing ever.

PAIGE: And I think we all needed the relief. But I felt for those two guys that night because it. Was just a bunch of screaming and this like, pastime running around our town.

PAIGE: Just you.

PAIGE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

PAIGE: But I don't know.

PAIGE: Like, I'm trying to. If I really got in trouble, I would say the one time that I was, I wasn't in trouble. But I do remember.

PAIGE: At the chow hall, we had to.

PAIGE: So there was, like, this whole process, right? So you'd go in, you sit at your table.

PAIGE: And when the table.

PAIGE: That sits down before you gets up, then you get up, right? So it's like this domino effect. So like.

PAIGE: How fast they eat is.

PAIGE: Basically how fast you're going to have to eat and you really don't get a lot of time. So everybody's eating really fast. And at my table, I was sitting there and we were eating and. No offense to the cooks that day, but it was like some really dry chicken. And the girl across from me was eating and, you know, we're like, shoving it.

PAIGE: And she chokes.

PAIGE: And she, like, inhales a piece.

PAIGE: Of chicken. And she's sitting there and she's like, coughing. And she's like, Sir.

PAIGE: And I were like.

PAIGE: At this table over. My God. Like, what do we do? Like, we can't get up. We're not allowed, you know, it's just like this thing.

PAIGE: And there was this thing called the pit, which was at the front where the tire sat.

PAIGE: And you didn't want to go by the pit cause you just didn't want to.

PAIGE: And I remember she was just, like, gasping for breath. And I was just like, my gosh, Like, we need to do something. And I got up and my mouth was still full of food. And I walked to the pit and I was like.

PAIGE: Trying to talk. And I'm like, she's choking, like. And I had food in my mouth. And I was like, my gosh, Like, this is this is it. Like, I'm.

PAIGE: This is it.

PAIGE: Like, I'm going to.

PAIGE: Just get my butt handed to me and so, like.

PAIGE: Go over the end up having.

PAIGE: To do, like, the Heimlich maneuver. And she had to be taking the house. It was like a whole ordeal.

PAIGE: But so we like line up to leave.

PAIGE: And they were.

PAIGE: Like, Who was that? That came to the table? And I was like, no. Like, I'm not going to raise my hand for this, you know? And then I was just like, I have to do it. I'm like, like it was me, sir, you know? And he comes over and he, like, gets ready to yell. And then he was just like, I'm kidding. He's like, Thank you so much for coming. You know, like, you know, like you saved her life. Da da da da da. And I was like, my God. I thought he was going to, like, just chew me to pieces. But it's my other weird, random memory.

ROWELL: Yeah, well, she. Okay. Ultimately.

PAIGE: Yeah. Come back. Yeah. All right. Yeah. So. Yeah, but she.

PAIGE: Got a nice day off. Good. So did you.

ROWELL: Ever talk about it afterwards? Well.

PAIGE: Not really. I think we joked about it.

ROWELL: But. And I get off easy on that one.

PAIGE: No, no, no.

ROWELL: All right. And then moving forward, where did you go for it?

PAIGE: Yeah. So my tech school.

PAIGE: Was at Fort Meade, Maryland, which was really interesting because we were at Army Post. Obviously I was Airforce Air Force, so that was a very.

PAIGE: Different.

PAIGE: Experience.

PAIGE: And it was the Defense Information.

PAIGE: School and it was a joint tech school. So it was really cool because we had Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and the Coast Guard. And so we had.

PAIGE: Photographers, videographers.

PAIGE: Graphic designers, radio. So it's really cool to kind of be there and get to experience that.

ROWELL: Yeah. So do you want to describe some your photojournalism courses for me? Just things you remember learning, you know, the learning curve with the camera, all that stuff.

PAIGE: Yeah. So what was really cool.

PAIGE: So I went to tech school in that would have been 2005.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: We were one of the last classes to actually use film cameras. So we were transitioning to digital at that time. So we got training in both. And so when we started, we started with film, and I'm actually appreciative of that because it really teaches you the basics about right, like just photography in general.

PAIGE: And so we.

PAIGE: Utilized film cameras and we even got to go in and we had our own darkrooms and we would be doing our own prints and whatnot. And so it's really cool to like manually go in and dodge and burn. Like we would be making our own tools to do that and looking at the film.

PAIGE: And so we were doing that.

PAIGE: And then transitioning to digital.

PAIGE: And then as we were doing that, you know, we were.

PAIGE: Obviously learning about photography in general.

PAIGE: You know, a lot of people think, it's photography. It's super easy to just point a camera and click.

PAIGE: And there's so much more to that. And so learning about ISO shutter aperture and how to frame a photograph and then adding in light sources.

PAIGE: Because there was quite a.

PAIGE: Bit of different things. Things that we were tasked with doing. So there were like the normal things like photographing a change of command or award ceremony or something like that. But then also we were tasked with alert photography, which is very much like CSI. You know, we were photographers that would go out if there was.

PAIGE: A crime.

PAIGE: Suicide.

PAIGE: Death.

PAIGE: Domestic abuse.

PAIGE: Like anything you can think of.

PAIGE: We were there.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: You know, they would call us out and we'd have to go out in the middle of the.

PAIGE: Night.

PAIGE: And take photographs. And so it was important that we learned how to.

PAIGE: Use.

PAIGE: That photo equipment.

PAIGE: You know, the.

PAIGE: Right lens and angles and apertures and lighting to be able to have evidence that reflected the.

PAIGE: Situation.

PAIGE: You know, if you look at.

PAIGE: Skin and, you know, there's a bruise, we would have to get that exposed as close as possible.

PAIGE: So it was as realistic as possible, you know, when they went to court and needed that evidence. So it was really interesting kind of learning all the different pieces of the puzzle and all these different tasks that we would be doing.

ROWELL: Yeah, it's a very visceral way to learn those things, it seems like.

PAIGE: Yeah, yeah. I remember like when we were learning the alert, like we.

PAIGE: Had.

PAIGE: Dummies and so it was like you had to learn like for a crime scene. So like if there was a homicide, like, you know, putting numbers, evidence like you had to have a ruler and being able to.

PAIGE: Put that down. And it was it.

PAIGE: Was definitely interesting.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: So are there looking back, are there any calls that you went out on that really stick out to you still?

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. In fact, you know, I remember, you know, there have been numerous.

PAIGE: Times.

PAIGE: Throughout my career.

PAIGE: Where.

PAIGE: You get the call and you're just like, you know, it's not it's not going to be something that you you want to go do it. So she was in the middle of the night. Like usually if it's in the middle of the night, nothing is not right. Nothing good happens. And so I think that was always like the the scary thing. That was the one thing I like. Any time that phone rang, I was just like.

PAIGE: Please let it be like a stupid like somebody hit. You know, like a lot of times we would get like things like.

PAIGE: Somebody was driving.

PAIGE: Like the forklift and.

PAIGE: They backed into a building and it's like damage to government property. I need you to come take photos. Like.

PAIGE: As much as that drove me nuts to get up and do that, I would I.

PAIGE: Would take that over, you know, a domestic abuse situation or rape or anything like that.

ROWELL: Yeah. How did you deal with that as such a young person coping with those events and being very up close and with all of those pieces?

PAIGE: Yeah, you know, I think. The the one.

PAIGE: Silver lining of it is slightly. When you're behind the camera, it almost feels like you're not there. You can almost use that as like this barrier, right? Like you're you're looking through the lens, you're taking it, you're kind of you're removing yourself.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: You know, so I really relied on that.

PAIGE: But also, I.

PAIGE: Know that like a lot of us were, you know, our supervisors were we're good at knowing like, you know, we knew that if there was something that just wasn't sitting well, that we could talk to them or tell them and say, hey, like we got a call last night, you know, this is about this like, I'm going to need some time today. And so that was really helpful. You know, I remember my colleague, she had to shoot a document, a suicide that.

PAIGE: Happened with.

PAIGE: An airman. And it was it was hard on the entire shop, you know, because to watch her have to.

PAIGE: Process that was.

PAIGE: Really difficult. You know, I saw the way it impacted her.

PAIGE: And, you know.

PAIGE: It had happened in in the airman's bedroom. And it was like she couldn't sleep in her bedroom anymore. She was sleeping on her couch.

PAIGE: And it's just like.

PAIGE: That's tough, you know?

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: Me? Yeah. Thank you for sharing.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: Would like to take a break or move forward.

PAIGE: I'm good. Okay. All right.

ROWELL: So in terms of the kind of what equipment you used. What were the models of cameras that you were working with? For the most part?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: So we used Nikon Cash, and that was a while ago. So I want to say it was like the Nikon DX two X. I remember.

PAIGE: These big bulkier.

PAIGE: Cameras because obviously they needed to be heavy duty enough to, you know, be taken out on missions and wherever. And so.

PAIGE: We were.

PAIGE: Utilizing that and it was really cool because obviously we had a lot of equipment because we needed, you know, for every situation. You know, I remember it went out and when I was stationed in Georgia, we had a pair of rescue men, and so they were doing.

PAIGE: Some practice.

PAIGE: Runs. We had a shooting range that was close by. And so they went out and they were doing.

PAIGE: Their.

PAIGE: Doing their jumps. And so, like, I had a giant telephoto lens, like, you know, it was huge.

PAIGE: You know? And so I'm laying on my back, you know, with an op and taking them as they come down.

PAIGE: Which you have to be careful about because obviously they're coming.

PAIGE: Down and.

PAIGE: You don't want to get hit.

PAIGE: But so it's really.

PAIGE: Cool to have like all of that equipment at your fingertips. It really allowed us to do a lot of cool things and really, you know, capture history, which is pretty cool when you think about it. You know, everybody. Marie Anytime I would tell somebody, like I'm a photographer in the military and they're.

PAIGE: Like, What? Photographer in the military? I'm like, How do you think photos get on The New York.

PAIGE: Times or in a history book? Someone's got to do it right. And so that was really cool.

ROWELL: Yeah. So we're doing research for the interview. I found so many news outlets that utilized your images. So, yeah, yeah. So is there anything else from that period of time where you're doing your your technical courses that you want to talk about that you remember maybe what it was like to have a little more freedom and what it was like to maybe interact with other people of other branches or other armed forces.

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, I think it was it.

PAIGE: Was interesting because you were obviously at that basic training. There is no freedom whatsoever.

PAIGE: And then you go to tech school and it's like, okay, you can have a cell phone again. Like you have some free time.

PAIGE: Granted, it was like you kind of if I remember correctly, there was almost like a period when you arrived where it was like.

PAIGE: Okay, you're here, but like, you still have a.

PAIGE: Curfew and then you slowly, like, you know, pending, you didn't do anything crazy. Like you then got the opportunity to go off base and and do things. And so I remember like that being a really, like.

PAIGE: Crazy time, to say the least. You know, it was almost.

PAIGE: Like college in the aspect of like.

PAIGE: You're putting all these.

PAIGE: Young adults into a barrack. And so I remember like the Marine dorm was next to ours and I was on the first floor. And there were definitely times when we were trying to sneak in.

PAIGE: And out past curfew, which definitely happened. Don't ever tell. Don't. Show this video anyway? No. So, you know, we definitely push the boundaries a little bit for sure.

PAIGE: And we're just like exploring that freedom.

PAIGE: But it.

PAIGE: Was also really cool, I think, to have the to have those other branches.

PAIGE: And just to see how different things were. It made me thankful to join the Air Force. I know a lot of folks would make.

PAIGE: Fun of us, call us the chair for us or whatever it would be. But I mean, it was nice like having a.

PAIGE: Little bit better space. And so or.

ROWELL: Some of those primary differences that you saw from your colleagues in the Army or in the Navy.

PAIGE: Yeah. I mean, I think obviously the.

PAIGE: The structure is more so in I think the other branches. Like we would all like marched to school every morning and that was a thing. But like the Marines, like had this like whole thing that they did.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: They had like their chant, you know, like that, they would say, And I feel like it says something about like, blood makes the grass grow. Like, it was crazy. I just remember like, it was this thing and everybody was like and then.

PAIGE: They do their ho, ho, ho, ho.

PAIGE: And it was just really loud. But they definitely had, you know, like more strict. Like, I think their curfews were different.

PAIGE: And just kind.

PAIGE: Of how their like, rank structure was. That was a little bit different. I always remember that because one CI so it was cool about being in my career field was is we had a lot of advanced training. So like you would get your foundational training when you went.

PAIGE: And then you could go back to.

PAIGE: The schoolhouse and do intermediate photojournalism, or you could do courses on Adobe Creative Suite.

PAIGE: And so.

PAIGE: You could get more experienced in, you know, website development or graphic design. And so it was like really cool to be able to go back and get that and continue advancing. And so I would go back and of course, like it was still joint training. And so like when we would go back, we would have the opportunity, like we would stay in a hotel, like we would not be in the barracks, but like all the other branches still had to stay in the barracks with like the tech school kids.

PAIGE: And it was just like very different. And so everybody always, like, made fun of us.

ROWELL: But it was nice.

PAIGE: It was nice. It was nice.

ROWELL: So did you get close to anybody while you were at tech school?

PAIGE: Yes.

PAIGE: Definitely did.

PAIGE: So I have.

PAIGE: One so.

PAIGE: One of my first roommates in tech school. Her last name was Chan.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: She was from Hawaii. And I heard that was eye opening. It was so cool because like just learning about their culture there, I mean, it felt I mean, it was obviously I'd never been there and never knew anybody from Hawaii living in Wisconsin. And so it was really cool. And she taught me last time about.

PAIGE: Spam eating.

PAIGE: Seaweed rice, which was great because I ended up going to Korea for my first duty assignment, and and that panned out well.

PAIGE: It was good. Good tips moving there. Yeah, but she was.

PAIGE: Definitely, you know, I'm still I'm still friends with her on Instagram. We chat here and there and, you know, it's great. And I still have a few other folks from tech school that I'm friends with on social media, which is crazy. And then I actually have a buddy who was a marine that I met.

PAIGE: In.

PAIGE: What I was an intermediate photojournalism course who's actually here in Milwaukee. It was like one of those weird connections where we were in and I don't know how was maybe we were talk about the Packers.

PAIGE: You know, who knows? And I was like, my God, I'm from Wisconsin. He's like, me too. So it's been.

PAIGE: Interesting to kind of have somebody from the service, you know.

ROWELL: At that point, had your accent lessened so much that he couldn't tell. You're from Wisconsin?

PAIGE: Yes, definitely.

PAIGE: Because I lived in.

PAIGE: Southern Georgia for four years. And so I had this like, weird Wisconsin.

PAIGE: Twang thing that with a little mix. So.

ROWELL: All right. So before we move on to the next stage, the first duty station, I think will pause. So listen, segment one of the interview with Jenna Page on February 27th, 2023. Okay. This be in segment two of the interview with Jenna Page on February 27th, 2023. So let's talk about your first duty station. Where did you go and when did you find out you were going there?

PAIGE: Yeah. So my first duty station was Ozone Air Base, South Korea.

PAIGE: And I found out for like it was a couple of.

PAIGE: Months into tech school, you know, we're all like, every day. I remember there was this dry erase board in. Like one of these offices and you would check to see if your name was on there of whether you got your orders in, you know, because there was like, you know, like, where am I going? Like, that's the most exciting thing.

PAIGE: And so I remember.

PAIGE: My name was on the board and I was so excited. And I went in and then they told me where I was going and I was like.

PAIGE: What? You know, like I was hoping for like Italy or Florida. And so so they told me it was on air base and.

PAIGE: It was a short tour. It was a remote tour.

PAIGE: So back then.

PAIGE: Families weren't really allowed to go. There were.

PAIGE: A few positions, typically.

PAIGE: Officers or higher enlisted members that could have their families, but there weren't a.

PAIGE: Ton at that time.

PAIGE: So pretty much everybody was, you know, just there living in the barracks regardless of rank. And so.

PAIGE: So one of the.

PAIGE: Perks of that was or what was supposed to be a perk was going on a remote tour is you get a base of preference leaving there. And so that means you fill out the sheet and you can select where you would like to go. And if it, you know, lines up, they're going to do their best to like give you that preference. That did not work out in my favor. I ended up getting Moody Air Force Base, Georgia, which was not on my list.

PAIGE: But yeah, but so.

PAIGE: You know, I was pretty excited. I remember when I called and told my parents that I was going there. My mom cried. She was like freaked out. I think she just thought of North Korea. And she's like, my gosh. Like.

PAIGE: You know, like, what's going to happen while you're there?

ROWELL: But you're feeling okay about it.

PAIGE: Yeah. After all. Yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: And what was it like traveling there when you when you went.

PAIGE: Yeah, that was interesting.

PAIGE: So I you know, when I was a kid, I.

PAIGE: Was I think I was 13 and that was the first time I ever flew internationally. I went to Mexico. It was my grandparents 50th wedding anniversary and they took the entire family and it was this cool thing. But other than that, like I had never traveled internationally by myself, really hadn't traveled by myself at all. And so this was like a huge ordeal. And I remember ahead of flight super early out of Baltimore.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: I was freaking out because, like, I kept calling this cab company that was supposed to pick me up and it was like they weren't showing up and I was freaked out. I was going to miss my flight. It was this whole ordeal.

PAIGE: But I made it.

PAIGE: And then I flew to Atlanta and my flight from Atlanta straight to.

PAIGE: Seoul was 15.5 hours. And at that time I had had an.

PAIGE: Injury in my left foot.

PAIGE: And I.

PAIGE: Was in like one of those like boot air boot.

PAIGE: Castings. And so I was like.

PAIGE: Great, you know?

PAIGE: So here I am on this flight super long. I got this boot on, but it was great. But then I showed up and it was.

PAIGE: I'm sure it was like crazy at first. I was like, Am I in the right place? You know, Because like, I'm looking at the language on the signs and I'm like.

PAIGE: This doesn't look like.

PAIGE: You know, I'm in the right spot. That really showed how naive I was and quite frankly.

PAIGE: Ignorant when it came to language.

PAIGE: But I just remember they were very adamant, like our instructions like, you need to go to this place, don't listen to anybody else. Like they're going to try to tell you to go somewhere else. And so we had to go to this one spot and then we had to wait. And I got in really late. In fact, I remember getting up to the base at like, I want to say it was like midnight or two in the morning, and then you got picked up, you had a sponsor. So there was somebody from your office.

PAIGE: Who met you.

PAIGE: Yeah, because they had like a terminal.

PAIGE: On.

PAIGE: Base. And so you'd go there and they would meet you and then they would take you to your dorm and kind of get you settled in. And I just remember, like, showing up. And I probably smelled really bad because I'd been up for a really long time. And I just remember I was like, I feel so gross. But yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. Were you on crutches also with the boot?

PAIGE: No, I was not. It was a walking boot, thank goodness.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: How did you how did you get injured, if you know what I'm asking?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: So turns out the shoes.

PAIGE: That they gave you in basic training were not great for my feet.

PAIGE: And so basically.

PAIGE: I was just in probably bad running form, but I had gotten to the point where I'd gotten such a bad stress fracture from running like I had fractures all down. I had to go. Yeah, I was. Like a crazy ordeal.

PAIGE: My goodness. Okay.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: Wow. So you had to you did you have to get procedures? Is that what you're going to say or.

PAIGE: No.

PAIGE: At that point, I didn't know. Eventually, I had to be put in a hard cast.

PAIGE: Okay.

ROWELL: But was that in Korea?

PAIGE: Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

ROWELL: How many months were you getting treatment for this injury? Do you remember?

PAIGE: Quite some.

PAIGE: Time. I would say.

PAIGE: It probably started in the summer of 2005 when I was in tech school, and probably well, I mean, I got treated for it for years upon years because it was they put me in the cast, then they gave me like a steroid shot and then it was now I needed orthopedics and my shoes. And so it was like this constant thing. Or even today, I still struggle with issues.

PAIGE: On that foot.

ROWELL: I'm sorry, you know, but yeah. So. And you were still running in tech school all the time, right? So how do you feel about reporting that when you initially started to feel things not right?

PAIGE: Funny you bring that up. So I actually the first time I reported it was when I was in basic training.

PAIGE: I went and saw the doctor there.

PAIGE: Because I was I was having a.

PAIGE: Lot of.

PAIGE: Pain.

PAIGE: And I.

PAIGE: Remember there was like this thing that.

PAIGE: They did while we were in basic training. It was almost like this like Olympic type thing where it was like they would bring all the flights together and they had this day of like different activities and you would compete against the other flights. And I somehow got put on the five K, which I was like, I am not a runner. Like, I don't know how this happened, but I think that was part of it. Then after like I had to do that, I was just having this pain. And I remember it was right before like your, your fitness test, like that's towards the end of basic training. And I went and they were like, I'm going to be frank with you. I would power through this because, like, if we do anything, then you may be stuck here and then you're going to be on, you know, in the med flight. And, you know, and I was just like, okay. And so they gave me what we called vitamin M Motrin. And I took that and I kept going. And that ultimately was not a good idea.

ROWELL: Yeah, I worsened the condition.

PAIGE: Yeah, right. Yeah.

PAIGE: But then it did.

PAIGE: It kept being really hard to constantly go back because.

PAIGE: You know, nobody.

PAIGE: Wants to be seen as a failure or like they're trying to get out of stuff. But, like, it's like, well, like, I have this issue. It's not going away.

PAIGE: And so that was hard.

ROWELL: Yeah, I bet. Especially so.

PAIGE: Early. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: Did you end up confiding with other people in your flight about it? Were they kind of aware?

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah, they were aware.

ROWELL: But yeah. So I've dealt with it all through that period of time, growing into a career.

PAIGE: Yeah. So back to Korea.

PAIGE: Yeah, Korea.

ROWELL: Korea. So what was your first impression of us on that first morning after you got in?

PAIGE: Yeah, it was eye opening.

PAIGE: So I arrived during a base exercise. So obviously when I got in, it was nighttime. And I want to say I felt like it was a I think it was a Sunday night that I got in. And Monday started the exercise. And so I did my best to sleep. But obviously there's like a 12 hour time difference or whatever it was. So I was all out of whack. And so I remember I got up and they told me, you know, you're going to the exercises going on, someone's going to come get you and they're going to take you to, like, bring you to our office. So I wake up. Obviously it was nighttime, so I hadn't seen anything know when I arrived and for walk into the office and it is full blown. You feel like you are at war. I mean, everything that base, everything shuts down. So like, the chow hall shuts down, the base exchange shuts down. You're eating memories, like when you are moving from, like, your locations. Like, it is insane. I mean, there were Humvees everywhere. There were people laying in ditches with their weapons. And yeah.

PAIGE: It is like, absolutely insane. And so I'm like walking up like, my gosh, like, what is going on right now? We're like, I saw a really like path and people in gear.

PAIGE: I mean, it was just like it was crazy. And then I got to the office and.

PAIGE: There was.

PAIGE: Another airman, and I think he may have had like a medical issue or something. And so he couldn't participate. And so I was with him that week.

PAIGE: And I remember.

PAIGE: We just watched Scrubs.

PAIGE: On DVD because we couldn't do anything because.

PAIGE: Everything shuts down. So like my end processing was kind of delayed until, you know, the exercise finished. And then I was able to do my processing and do the first term airmen center that all folks have to go through at their first assignment. But it was it was crazy.

ROWELL: Yeah. And you got to 44 as you walked.

PAIGE: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because like, you couldn't at that time, like.

PAIGE: You couldn't.

PAIGE: Use like the cabs or anything because there were like, base cabs. So, like, all that stuff.

PAIGE: Like you.

PAIGE: Couldn't use if you were participating in the exercise. Obviously there were some exceptions. You know, there were some folks who were there TDY or something, and they could. But otherwise, like you are not allowed to.

PAIGE: To do anything. So it was.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: I felt like walking into a war situation. Yeah, it was nuts. Just first thing. Yeah. How big was the base? How do you like approximately? I mean, you can talk with tell me about, like, how long it took to drive across it. If you remember how long of a walk it was or anything like that, You.

PAIGE: Know, I mean, it was a solid walk for sure because.

PAIGE: Everybody lived on the base. So like when you I remember when you walked in, we would call it the drunk march because and I can get into that further. But, you know, there was a big party culture because you worked hard, you played harder, and folks didn't have their families. And so there were a lot of people who saw that as talk about TDY, which is temporary duty. They would say temporary divorce, you know. So it was it was a culture, to say the least.

PAIGE: But so we would do the drunk march home.

PAIGE: Because you had a curfew.

PAIGE: But you'd walk.

PAIGE: In and there was like the officer dorms were kind of at the front and where some of the families lived. And then it was primarily all the upper enlisted folks who were there. And then you would get to the airman dorms that were in the back by the flight line, of course.

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, but I mean, I would say.

PAIGE: It like to walk it, like to walk that far was definitely like, I would say 30 minutes. So it was definitely a good five, ten minute drive, I would say from the main gate down to like where I was.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: So and then what unit were you with? When you were assigned to it?

PAIGE: Yeah. So at that time, I was with the 51st Communication Squadron. I think that is correct.

ROWELL: First 50. First, I think. Yes. Yes. Right away. 51st.

PAIGE: Yes. And we had two different wings because we had we had the fighter wing. But then we also had, I think, Pack RF was there. Pacific Air Force. I can't remember. So we had two generals, the whole thing.

ROWELL: All right. Did you have a nickname in your unit like the the unit itself?

PAIGE: The unit self. Yeah, we were the Jesters.

PAIGE: Okay.

PAIGE: Well, at least we were in the comms piece, like in the multimedia world.

ROWELL: So was that specifically the photographers or.

PAIGE: That was just our shop of photo, video, graphic design. But then otherwise, the base was. We were the Mustangs that I remember. The Mustang stampede. Our general would always say that.

PAIGE: And in the exercise videos, he would broadcast. All right. Yeah. What were those? Yeah. So, like, when we were doing base exercises, he would do these, like.

PAIGE: Base wide videos that would, like, provide an update on where we were. Like in the exercise, like in the scenario. And so. Yeah.

ROWELL: What was it like seeing those What did it what were they like? What what did they consist of? Do you.

PAIGE: Remember? You know, it's really funny because.

PAIGE: Being in our unit, we had to help.

ROWELL: Out, put them together.

PAIGE: Put them.

PAIGE: Together. So like, we recorded him. And I remember one time, you know, as the general of the.

PAIGE: Base, he's supposed to be.

PAIGE: In a spot where he's safe. And I remember, like there was like an intruder or whatever. I can't remember.

PAIGE: The term was. And we were up in the command.

PAIGE: Post and he like came out and he like had is like am.

PAIGE: Nine and he's like going down the halls and go, I we're just like you. You can't do that. Like you're supposed to be here. You're supposed to be safe. Yeah. So, so yeah.

ROWELL: But scenario or in real life that.

PAIGE: Like in the scenario he was doing it like as part of this exercise that we're like, you're not, you're supposed to be safe like in.

PAIGE: This like hardened shelter.

ROWELL: To really kind of tell him what to.

PAIGE: Do, right? You know, and I'm just like.

PAIGE: At that time, a airman first class or something. I was just like, I'm not going to tell them.

PAIGE: Like, I'm just going to sit here, be quiet. Yeah.

ROWELL: So I also were into combat. Was that a thing that you that that rings a bell at all, or is it more, maybe more recent combat like communications?

PAIGE: Yeah. No, I don't know. That might be more recent.

ROWELL: It's all over the Facebook page. And really. I know. So did you kind of experience any sort of culture shock or a bit of a transitionary period being in South Korea?

PAIGE: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think there was both the culture shock of being in South Korea, just like being in this different place. And then obviously the culture shock of the military, especially over there, is very male dominant over there. And so that was very interesting. But like the Korean culture, I remember just going out and I loved it. I mean, I always say like, if I could move there, I totally would.

PAIGE: Wow.

PAIGE: I just think it's so beautiful. And everybody was so nice. And I love the food.

PAIGE: The food was so good.

ROWELL: So you get to have a lot of food off base.

PAIGE: Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Yeah.

PAIGE: So, although I wasn't.

PAIGE: As adventurous.

PAIGE: Back then as I am now.

PAIGE: Which I like kick myself for because I think there's probably a lot of stuff I would have loved to try, but, like, bulgogi is huge there. And so, like, you know, we were constantly going out and doing that and, you know, trying different places, so.

ROWELL: And did you have any kind of very memorable sort of first, like, first interactions with any elements of that, either the military culture or the South Korean culture?

PAIGE: Man. That's a tough one. You know, I think.

ROWELL: Also doesn't have to be like first exposure. It could just been like when I think about this, it still sticks out to me. Like I still remember exactly how I felt or exactly, you know, how the restaurant smelled or whatever, you know?

PAIGE: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, that is funny.

PAIGE: Because there was this place.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: We called it the Crab. It was the Chinese restaurant above Burger.

PAIGE: King that was off base. Yeah, Yeah. And it was owned by someone who was Japanese. So it gets.

PAIGE: More complex there.

PAIGE: Yeah, but that was our spot.

PAIGE: That was where our team went. I loved fried rice. I think I would get like three orders of fried rice because, you know, the portions are a lot smaller than here in America. But that was our place. That's where we spent our holidays, you know, because we didn't have our families. And so that was where we went. And like, I still remember, like it was, you know, you'd walk up the stairs and you'd walk in and I just remember the little lady, and she was so nice. And.

PAIGE: It's just great. And it's funny because, like, most of the folks.

PAIGE: I served with are out.

PAIGE: Now.

PAIGE: But like, a few years back, you know, I still had friends from that time that were going back over there, whether for temporary duty or whatever, or going back for another assignment there. And, you know, they would take a picture and they would send it and take us on Facebook. You know, it became our thing.

PAIGE: And there was also this.

PAIGE: Lady who would go around and she would sell flowers. She was the flower lady.

PAIGE: And she'd go to the bars and, you know, she'd be selling flowers to, like these young airmen. And, you know, it's just like all these, like, weird little things that I don't know, you just.

ROWELL: You hold on to.

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, or the time.

PAIGE: Like during one of our exercise, one of our.

PAIGE: Exercises.

PAIGE: I had these two younger airmen. One was a photographer, one was a videographer. And they went out on the flight line and you had to wear ear protection and they only had one set. And so they cut them in half so they could share them and they got stuck in. His name was Alex Farver Farver. I always pronounce the last real good. He got word stuck at his ear, but we were like doing this exercise. And we're sitting there like with pliers, trying to get this half of an earplug out of his ear.

PAIGE: Yeah, but yeah.

ROWELL: So you mentioned your kind of your group that you're working with a lot. So what was that work culture like for you? What was were you one of the only women in that group or.

PAIGE: There were a few of us, so we were relatively so like within the communication squadron.

PAIGE: There was like our office.

PAIGE: Which with.

PAIGE: The Jesters.

PAIGE: And so there was probably about 10 to 15 of us, probably.

PAIGE: More so.

PAIGE: Ten And there were really, for the most.

PAIGE: Part, there was about three women.

PAIGE: Out of.

PAIGE: That. The rest were males.

PAIGE: One of them was.

PAIGE: At that time she was a staff for Tech Sergeant Brenda, Sergeant Nipper, and saw friends with her on Facebook. She was kind of like my mom.

PAIGE: I think she.

PAIGE: Really felt.

PAIGE: Bad for me being.

PAIGE: There and really mentored.

PAIGE: Me on things.

PAIGE: And then the other females were usually like the same rank as me, so I didn't really connect with either of them per se. I did connect with one of them. I can't remember her name was Peach or if that was her last name or if she that was just a nickname, I can't remember. But she was there when I got there and she wasn't the best role model for me.

PAIGE: And so that.

PAIGE: That was I didn't spend a lot of time with her.

PAIGE: Otherwise. I mean, it was.

PAIGE: We were really close knit for sure.

PAIGE: In fact.

PAIGE: You know, I think one of the best mentors I ever had, Tech Sergeant, his name is Tech Sergeant Jeffrey Allen, and he actually followed me to my next assignment at Moody Air Force Base, which was pretty cool. But he was really.

PAIGE: More than.

PAIGE: Me into who I am today. You know, he he was outstanding, both personally and professionally. Well.

ROWELL: Do you care to talk about what made him such a great kind of role model for you, or is such a kind of a peer mentoring relationship in some ways, or who maybe what was not as ideal with the previous Air Force member You mentioned Peach.

PAIGE: Yeah. So.

PAIGE: You know, Sergeant Allen was first and.

PAIGE: Foremost, he was.

PAIGE: Extremely talented.

PAIGE: In the.

PAIGE: Photojournalism career field. We were pretty small career field in general. I mean, I want to say like maybe like 300 of us a crossed in the Air Force, like across the entire Air Force.

PAIGE: And so.

PAIGE: You really got to know.

PAIGE: Folks.

PAIGE: And their work, especially because we also had like weird opportunities. You know, I talked about that advanced training, but we also.

PAIGE: Had.

PAIGE: Department.

PAIGE: Of Defense.

PAIGE: Awards. So that was across all the branches and they would be the Visual Information Awards. So like they would recognize each year, like top photographers and graphic designers. And then we also had a Department of.

PAIGE: Defense.

PAIGE: Military Workshop where they selected like the top 30 photographers to come out and do a week.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Then they selected a winner at the end, which I was fortunate to.

PAIGE: Win in 2010, 2009, somewhere around there.

ROWELL: Do you remember the name of that award? Exactly. Okay. If you don't, that's all right.

PAIGE: We can go back to yeah.

PAIGE: We'll have to come back to it. But. So? So, yeah. So he.

PAIGE: Was amazing. I mean, he was known as like, you know, there was like a solid core of photojournalists that were just known in the career field of being really good. And he was one of them. And so for me, I really.

PAIGE: Found.

PAIGE: A knack with photography and I really enjoyed it. And I, you know, he saw that in me. And so he really took me under his wing.

PAIGE: And taught me a lot.

PAIGE: And so professionally, obviously, that was there.

PAIGE: But then personally.

PAIGE: Too, you know, he was just you know, I talked about Sergeant Nipper kind of being that mother figure. He was like my dad figure, you know, he really took care of us and really, I think, held our team together, you know. And I remember him saying he would frown so we can smile. You know, he would really take things like when things didn't go right, he took responsibility for that instead of pinning it on somebody else. And I went through a tough time when I was in Korea. You know, a couple of months after arriving, I was hanging out with. With Peach. And, you know, we had gone out. And when you first arrived, I can't remember, it was a brown bean or green bean, but it was like this whole thing or it was like, you know, they took you out and obviously, like, you go out to the bars and you go out drinking and, you know, she kind of took me out and at that time. So. A weird thing about Korea was typically the military bases follow.

PAIGE: The host nation's.

PAIGE: Drinking laws. And so the drinking age was lower there. However, there were some issues that had happened prior to my arrival. And so the armed forces that were there, they said 21, like we're not following Korea's rules. And so I was not of drinking age.

PAIGE: And so she took me out.

PAIGE: And, you know, took me to the bars and just wasn't a good wingman.

PAIGE: And, you know.

PAIGE: Basically sent me off with a guy that I didn't know.

PAIGE: And that's you know, I woke up in a hotel room with somebody I know who was And you know what?

PAIGE: Then it was like, you know, I didn't it obviously impacted me. But like, you're young, you know, like you're not going to say anything. You're not going to, you know, like, I was like, you're not going to rock the boat. I've been there for, like, two months.

PAIGE: Looking back now, I know that that was an okay, you know, and I wish I would have voiced it because I remember he ended.

PAIGE: Up living like three doors down in the dorms for me. And so it was like I remember like a counselor. I felt like I was just like being stalked. It was just a really uncomfortable situation. And so I knew that, like.

PAIGE: She.

PAIGE: She just wasn't a good role model, you know? And that kind of put me in a wrong direction. You know, a couple of months later, I ended up getting caught underage drinking by security forces.

PAIGE: And that was.

PAIGE: That was hard. That was a I was just really disappointed in myself. But also, like, I feel like I really took my office down when that happened.

PAIGE: And so.

PAIGE: And that was where Sergeant Allen really stood up because unfortunately, some of the members from my office were present earlier in that night before it happened and were obviously witnessing.

PAIGE: Me drinking. And.

PAIGE: You know, I know that it impacted him and he could have really.

PAIGE: You know, been not nice to me, but he was nice to me. So but, you know, it's one of.

PAIGE: Those experiences where I was glad it happened when it did because it taught me a lot. It really did. And I'm glad it happened at the start of my career because.

PAIGE: It was.

PAIGE: An eye opener for me and really showed me what's important.

PAIGE: But I had to work really hard because then my record was.

PAIGE: Was tarnished, you.

PAIGE: Know, And it was really difficult because I remember that same.

PAIGE: Night somebody in my squadron, he actually worked.

PAIGE: In the in the postal unit because we had.

PAIGE: A post office.

PAIGE: On base and.

PAIGE: I think we were the same rank. He got in trouble as well.

PAIGE: He got busted and the punishments that we received were night and day. Wow.

PAIGE: I got heavy handed punishments where he barely got anything.

PAIGE: And that was really frustrating.

ROWELL: Yeah. Really clear inequity.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. Sorry.

PAIGE: Experience.

ROWELL: I would like to pause or continue. We just have to see cause I have no problem. Share. Probably a little more to right here. I actually think I have some in the back. I can go look if you want.

PAIGE: I did. I get all.

ROWELL: This Just one little bit right here. The sign right in the middle. Right. There you go. Yeah, I think you got all that. Excellent. And we'll just take that right now. All right. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Thank you for sharing this, by the way.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: Really difficult. So that was formative for you early. And you, you had a lot of investment in your professional development. So at the time as well. And so could you tell me a bit more? How about some of your duties there? And what maybe just on a typical day would have looked like in terms of your duties ahead of time?

PAIGE: Yeah. So with Ozone.

PAIGE: Being my first assignment, you know, I was really.

PAIGE: Heavy in on.

PAIGE: The job training. So when you get to your first assignment.

PAIGE: You have to do, I believe they're called Kdka's.

PAIGE: So they're like.

PAIGE: These booklets that.

PAIGE: Basically kind of add on to your foundational training that you have when you're in tech school. And so it's kind of just building on that and making sure you know what you have to do so many hours and you have to do these things and you have to take a test and that allows you then to become a journeyman, right? So there's like these different levels.

PAIGE: So I was really focused on doing that.

PAIGE: But as part of that, so then I obviously had to do my, you know, daily job, which was all over the place.

PAIGE: So, you.

PAIGE: Know, we would obviously be doing things like alert photography. So going out so, you know, if there were any issues on base, we would go out and take those photos. Also did a lot of like.

PAIGE: Award ceremonies change commands.

PAIGE: We were doing the photographs for those during exercises. We that was what was really cool is most of the time we would get an exemption. So we got to be like non players and actually like work with. I want to say it was the OIG Office of the Inspector General, which is the office that would kind of go around and because we would get a rating for the exercise, unlike how well we did. And so they'd be like checking tasks. And so we got this like special arm badge and we would go around and document. So, you know, we were on the flight line.

PAIGE: You know.

PAIGE: Taking photos of them, prepping the aircraft.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: You know, we'd be with security forces while they were doing their exercises. Like I remember, we would do exercises around like if there was a defector that came from North Korea, you know, and landed on our airstrip, like, what would we do? And so, like, we were constantly doing that. So it was really just like every day was different, which I think was what I loved so much about it, is, you know, I got to see and do a lot of things that most people never experience. You know, like my husband, you know, he was in and he did avionics. So he worked on fighter aircraft every.

PAIGE: Day.

PAIGE: Where it was like, you know, I would go and.

PAIGE: You know, I'd go.

PAIGE: Do photographs of EOD explosive ordnance disposal. Right? And it was like I'd go out and they'd be like, Hey, you want to hit the button to, like, explore the stuff?

PAIGE: I'm like, Heck yeah, right. You know.

PAIGE: I go out and I go on an h h 60 and they're doing like a mission and they're like, Hey, you know, you want to see the guy. Yes. Like, so that was really cool.

PAIGE: I think some of that was because I was the photographer.

PAIGE: And to be honest, I think some of it too, is because I was a female.

PAIGE: You know? And so.

PAIGE: Yeah, so it's just really cool to be able to, to see and do all that. And any time we'd have anybody, you know, like a big wig come on base, whether that was a celebrity.

PAIGE: Or.

PAIGE: We had the secretary of the Air Force. Com when I was in Korea and I remember that was like my first like VIP visit. And those I ended up having a great day. He was speaking in a hangar and the sun and the lighting. It was like that golden hour. And I just remember that was like my first like shoot where I came back and I was like, Sergeant Allen, you got to look at these like. And he was like, so proud because it was like he had taught me something about, you know, like doing.

PAIGE: Focusing.

PAIGE: On the light and, you know, like setting just right. And then I was so excited. Those photos ended up going like, all over the place, probably because, like, who he was. I don't know, because they were so great. But I was really excited.

PAIGE: And I.

PAIGE: Also remember I got invited.

PAIGE: After he spoke. He went to so we had the two.

PAIGE: Generals and he was the general for not the base, but the.

PAIGE: Command.

PAIGE: General Trexler was his name. And he had this beautiful home like on the hill of the base. And they had like a dinner there. And I was able to go and photograph them, kind of mingling. And it was really cool.

PAIGE: And I got coined by him.

PAIGE: And I remember that was like my first, like, huge thing. And I was just like, Whoa, this is cool. Like, how many other people get to, like, go to a dinner? You know, there's like five people at this dinner and they're all big wigs. And here I am, an airman just hanging out.

PAIGE: So I was cool. Yeah.

ROWELL: Puts you in the path of a lot of new thing.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: And people have to show off what they do, so. Yeah, that definitely. Are you ready for that? Yes. Yeah. All right. So an internal VIP visit. Were there any other really memorable ones for you.

PAIGE: In Korea.

PAIGE: Specifically?

ROWELL: Look, not but know.

PAIGE: You know, it's funny because we did.

PAIGE: Quite a few different things. I do remember.

PAIGE: And I have a book and I can it's going to be terrible. But I had the.

PAIGE: Opportunity to go up.

PAIGE: To Seoul and they were kind of doing this event. And they had he was from the Korean War and he had a book and he spoke and I remember it was just like super powerful.

PAIGE: And, you know, I was able to photograph that. And I still have that book and it's signed and it's sitting on my bookshelf. I think that was definitely, definitely one of the other cooler ones I had.

PAIGE: Otherwise, I feel like most of the.

PAIGE: Stuff was pretty typical there. We didn't really get a lot of celebrities while I was there, unfortunately.

ROWELL: So yeah. Anything else in your kind of day to day duties that took you or just like places that took you, that felt kind of still feel kind of stand out for you at that time? I'm going to ask you a question.

PAIGE: Yeah, I'm just trying to think.

PAIGE: Through it.

ROWELL: Like it's okay if it surfaces later, too. That's all right.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah. I would say the only other thing that.

PAIGE: Stands out, and it's not necessarily I mean, it's kind of work related. When I was in Korea.

PAIGE: We actually wrote an.

PAIGE: Article and took photos on.

PAIGE: It.

PAIGE: We had kind of this group that would.

PAIGE: Go.

PAIGE: Every month to an orphanage, a Korean orphanage, And that was also like one of those just experiences I'll never forget. It was really cool. We like had to.

PAIGE: Pay dues.

PAIGE: To like, be a part of this group. And you like, made a commitment to do that. But it funded like we would bring a cake.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Birthday gifts every month for the kiddos who were having birthdays. And I remember it being so cool and I was never a person who was like really big into kids, but it was just so amazing. I saw another little boy, his name was Chung J.

PAIGE: Wook and he was.

PAIGE: My favorite. He was just so much fun.

PAIGE: But it was just so.

PAIGE: Cool to like be able to experience their culture and to like, give back. So that's just something I think I'll I'll never I'll never forget for sure.

ROWELL: Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Yeah. Did you learn any Korean while you were over there? Spoken fan at one time.

PAIGE: Just a little. Just a.

PAIGE: Little bit. You know, like. Hello? You're busy. I feel like Main gate was Chung moon country.

PAIGE: So as Main gate, please.

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: I mean, yeah, I used to know how.

PAIGE: To sing Happy Birthday because obviously.

ROWELL: We would.

PAIGE: Go.

ROWELL: But. Can't remember. Yeah. Done a lot of stuff since then.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: So you've mentioned the exercises number of times, right? How often did you engage in those and was that more unique to the be that assignment, that be that base your experience?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: So with it.

PAIGE: Being a remote tour and a short tour like that and obviously, you know, technically, you know, that kind of still at war, like in the scheme of things with Korea just because of the way things ended with that war. But obviously, you know, with North Korea bordering it, there's obviously there's.

PAIGE: Heightened.

PAIGE: Tensions and issues there.

PAIGE: So we were.

PAIGE: Always had to be at the ready. And so the exercises for sure, they were quarterly for sure. I feel like they may have even been more so. But, you know, that was definitely unique to there as I went to my other bases. Yes, we were still do exercises, but they were nothing like this. You know, they were a couple of days long, you know, you weren't working 12 hour shifts. You weren't doing MRIs. So it was definitely, definitely unique for sure. Yeah.

ROWELL: Were you ever given advance notice of those? Like, how much prep did you end up doing for that?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: So usually you kind of knew, if I remember correctly or you had an inkling. Also with us, like being part of.

PAIGE: The.

PAIGE: Group that documented them, we had a little bit more notice where, like, there were other people who didn't write. And so you just wake up to sirens and you're like, boy.

PAIGE: Yeah. But like.

PAIGE: There's a rumor mill, right? So like, one person knows it starts to trickle. You know, there's like the little, you know, side bar at the chow hall of hey, like I heard, like, maybe Saturday. So. Yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: Did you get to travel recreationally while you were in South Korea?

PAIGE: Yes, I did. I did travel while I was there. I did a little bit of both.

PAIGE: With.

PAIGE: Like with my military duty. I was able to do a couple of temporary duty assignments.

PAIGE: I went up to cou koon siong up down. I can't remember where it was. The location went to coincide because we had to help document a it was like a change of command.

PAIGE: I think that they needed support for like maybe they were down.

PAIGE: People could.

PAIGE: Do that. But then I also went to Camp Red Cloud and a couple other places and I can't remember what I went to all them for. I do remember one of them. I was able.

PAIGE: To.

PAIGE: Fly on a Chinook helicopter.

PAIGE: And that.

PAIGE: Was like my first flying experience of of my career as far as far as like documenting. And that was really cool. It was with the Army.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: I, you know, Korea is beautiful. And so being able to like, fly over it was just amazing. And they I remember they opened the back.

PAIGE: And I got strapped.

PAIGE: In and I got to sit and dangle my feet, you know, are fine. I was just.

PAIGE: Like, this is so cool. Yeah, never like that. I ever think I'd be doing this. So that was.

PAIGE: A really cool moment. But personally, I also would go and do stuff as well because they had like the morale and recreation.

PAIGE: And so they.

PAIGE: Would like set up tours that you could sign up for. And so I remember I went and did Glassblowing, which was really cool, and then it was like.

PAIGE: A two.

PAIGE: Part days. So we did that in the morning and then we went to this temple that was like on the side of this mountain, and there was like this giant Buddha carved into the site. It was insane. It was. And you had to walk a million stairs. I will remember that because I was dying. But it was so cool. And then I also I went to Seoul a lot. I love to shop. So I was in shopping Paradise.

PAIGE: So I'd go up there and do that.

PAIGE: And then I think probably the coolest experience.

PAIGE: And the thing I always.

PAIGE: Use for icebreakers and meetings when people are like, you know, or like a to to truth one line type.

PAIGE: Thing.

PAIGE: I got to go to the DMZ. Yeah. And it was. More of an official trip, not a personal trip. They had taken kind of some top performers on base.

PAIGE: That got recommended.

PAIGE: And we got a spot and we went up.

PAIGE: And we.

PAIGE: Got to tour the DMZ.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: We actually got to step into the building where they host meeting. So I got to step into North Korea. Yeah, I got to walk to the other side of the building and be in North Korea. So I would say I've been in North Korea.

PAIGE: But it was it was mind boggling, like doing.

PAIGE: This tour and just hearing like I remember.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: I have a train ticket for if the rail opens between North and South Korea, I have a ticket.

PAIGE: Yes. But.

PAIGE: You know, I remember they have like this. There's these two buildings and they're facing each other at the DMZ.

PAIGE: And then there's a couple of buildings.

PAIGE: Like in the middle. And then it literally looks like a parking curb that runs down the center of those buildings like. And so you like like on the South Korea side, it's like this welcoming center that, you know, they hope that there's going to be, you know, this. They're going to reunite and people are going be able to come back and, you know, but so there's like this parking curb and then there's military members, there's the South Koreans and there's the North Koreans on the other side. And they're just standing there and basically standing face to face.

PAIGE: Guarding the border.

PAIGE: And it was nuts. And I remember there was this like little tower where they had on the North Korea side where it was like a watchtower.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: They were kind of looking at us. And then I remember our guide was like, you know, they're probably going to make gestures at you just don't pay any attention. And sure enough, there were people on the other side and they were like going like this, Like, and I was just like, This.

PAIGE: Is crazy that this like, exists.

PAIGE: Like so that was that was interesting. We learned, like techniques about like how the North Koreans, like, put rocks and pebbles like in their bootstraps. So when they march, it sounds like they have more people.

PAIGE: Wow. Yes. Like and like.

PAIGE: We learned about their diet and like they like literally get like 600 calories a day. Like it was just like nuts. And then we were able to go into the tunnels. Yeah. So like, they had, you know, there were numerous tunnels that were dug. And so we were able to.

PAIGE: Go down in.

PAIGE: And go into one of those. And then they had like this lookout point where you could look out and you can obviously see into North Korea. And it was interesting because they have all these speakers on up and they're playing propaganda.

PAIGE: Obviously, we couldn't.

PAIGE: Understand it because it wasn't in English.

PAIGE: But I was just like, Wow, Like this is.

PAIGE: Just mind blowing. Absolutely.

PAIGE: Mind blowing. Yeah, yeah. So it's pretty good. I highly recommend. Yeah. We had an opportunity.

PAIGE: To take a trip. It is crazy. Yeah.

ROWELL: Was there anything else that you want to share about your time in Outside?

PAIGE: I don't think so.

ROWELL: I think we also just we already touched on the base culture and things like that. So how long were you there for?

PAIGE: A year. Okay. 12 months.

ROWELL: And I was shorter than some other tours there. Yeah.

PAIGE: Yes. Correct. Yep. Because I had a short tour.

PAIGE: Which was pretty standard at that time. So most people.

PAIGE: Were on a short tour there.

PAIGE: Folks who were allowed to bring their family.

PAIGE: I think we're on like two year tours, But again, that was very limited. That's now changed. They've opened it up to family for the most part.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: And so once you are finished, up, it goes on. Right. Where did you go next? So we talked about. I think it's moody, right?

PAIGE: Yes. I went to Moody Air Force Base in Georgia. So talk about a culture shock. There was another.

PAIGE: One.

ROWELL: So let's talk about that. What was that? Did you when did you find out that you did not get your preferred base? Where did you want to go?

PAIGE: Yeah, I was really hoping I wanted to go to Aviano in Italy. That was my, like, number one. I even think I put Germany down too. But yeah.

PAIGE: I don't.

PAIGE: Even remember when I found out I was going to Georgia. It might have been when I was in Korea. I can't remember. But I remember I was disappointed and I know there was like an opportunity to, like, take a gamble.

PAIGE: And, like.

PAIGE: Decline the assignment and see if I could get something else. But I ended up not doing that because there was like a I feel like there was like a portal that you could see, like kind of what had openings. And I was like, you know, like, I'll probably end up in North Dakota, so I'm just going to stick with Georgia. And that actually turned out to be pretty cool because I had a couple folks from my tech school.

PAIGE: That.

PAIGE: Were actually at Moody Air Force Base as well. So I had quite a few familiar faces that were already there. And then obviously my supervisor, Sergeant Allen, was following me too. A couple of months after I got there.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah. So what unit were you assigned to in the 23rd?

PAIGE: So that was in a weird spot because when I started there, I was in the communication squadron, but we were starting to go through.

PAIGE: A.

PAIGE: They were starting to consolidate us.

PAIGE: So at.

PAIGE: That time we were really starting to that would have been.

PAIGE: About six.

ROWELL: 5 to 6.

PAIGE: Yeah. So we were kind of starting to hit that recession. We were coming into it. And so they were really looking at how they were doing things. And so they totally switched up our career career field. They were starting to completely dissolve our graphic design folks. So they were like cross training them into something else. And then they were kind of merging. There were like different kind of videographer roles, and they were kind of merging those together. And then they were taking the photographers and the journalists and putting us together. So traditionally it was like photo, video, graphic design was in the communication squadron. And then we had the Public Affairs office, which was.

PAIGE: The journalists and like community.

PAIGE: Media relations. And they were under the wing, so they were under the commander. So, you know, completely different things. And now they were merging us all together. And so I made the transition into that Office of Public Affairs during my time there, which was very interesting.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah. Well, do you actually want to talk about that to start? And then we'll we'll get on to the other, the other details afterwards. Yeah.

PAIGE: So, you know, it was interesting.

PAIGE: Because they had talked about how well this this merger was eventually going to happen, but there wasn't a lot of details. And I don't think they really it probably wasn't done the best. I think some of it was I think they kind of had to hurry was part of it. And so, you know, our our graphic design folks were kind of the first people to slowly transition out. And for me, I really took that as an opportunity to figure out how to fill the gap. I really enjoyed graphic design and I thought, like what they brought to the table was really important. And again, having Sergeant Allen as my mentor, you know.

PAIGE: He he.

PAIGE: Knew as well and.

PAIGE: He kind of had a little bit.

PAIGE: Of education in that area.

PAIGE: And so luckily.

PAIGE: I was able to go back for some advanced training and become proficient in the graphic design software and. So then I kind of.

PAIGE: Took that on and.

PAIGE: Had some success. I was able I won the Department of Defense, one of the graphic design awards. So that was really exciting.

ROWELL: What was the piece?

PAIGE: It was this one about.

PAIGE: Was a five minutes claim to.

PAIGE: Fame or something. I can't remember. It was about it was something that.

PAIGE: I did for like our base newspaper. And we had I had an on air broadcasting sign.

PAIGE: And sentence going to drive me nuts.

PAIGE: But it wasn't anything that spectacular looking back. And I'm like, but hey.

ROWELL: He's also different.

PAIGE: Now. Yeah, right, yeah.

PAIGE: But yeah, So the graphic.

PAIGE: Designers kind of, you know, transitioned.

PAIGE: Out and then it was.

PAIGE: Really kind of interesting to watch this photographer writer become photojournalist thing.

PAIGE: Because we did, I think we had. You know, a little territory war there and a little bit of egos, because I think, you know, it's going to sound terrible, but.

PAIGE: Right. Like as a photographer, you know, again, people just think it's as easy as, you know, clicking a button. And so we had these writers who were like, it's fine. Like, I'm going to come in and I'm just going to do this. And we're like, Yeah, no, it's not that easy. Like, are you going to be able to go take, you know, a photo in the studio or go on on alert.

PAIGE: When you have and you've been have.

PAIGE: That training and who's giving you that training? Like, is it our responsibility?

PAIGE: So it was just like this.

PAIGE: Craziness for quite a few years and it was pretty tough on the career field. I think there were.

PAIGE: Just a lot of people who.

PAIGE: You know, just really didn't know what to do and every base was doing stuff differently. And so it just caused, I think, a lot of of unnecessary tension. So.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah, it's a lot to deal with.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: So and you're the code for your most changed during this time, is that correct?

PAIGE: Yes, it did. It did. Because I want to say, I. I don't know.

ROWELL: If you've one of them. That's.

PAIGE: That's great. I remember the one was three three and I was seven four.

PAIGE: Okay. I want to say. Yeah.

ROWELL: That was post transition for the photo interview.

PAIGE: Yes. Right. Yeah.

ROWELL: So you were able to kind of commute that into something that allowed you to grow in your career, but it also created destabilization in your in your group and in your field? Yeah.

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: You know, I think it.

PAIGE: Eventually got to a good place. I mean, the transition was still really happening even as I was getting out of the military. I mean, with any change, it's going to take quite some time, you know? But I enjoyed it. You know, at that time, I was able to do that graphic design work and and kind of become a a jack of all trades. And then I went back and did some advanced coursework and I was able to get into, you know, at that time, multimedia was like huge. So then I was learning video work. And so, like, I enjoyed it. I, I love learning and I love a challenge. So for me, that was exciting. And then later in my career, when I got to to Mountain Air Force, Mountain Home Air Force Base, you know, I was able to then really start branching into the non-visual information. So I was starting to do the community relations and the media relations.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: And taking that opportunity to learn that other side. Okay.

ROWELL: All right. So focusing in on Moody again. So did you have a period between when you were in Ozark, when you were out? It was on? And what do you into Moody that you got to go home and anything like that?

PAIGE: I did.

PAIGE: Not go.

PAIGE: Home between.

PAIGE: Those bases when I was in Korea. And that's one thing I didn't mention is most people do like and I can't remember what we called it, but you would take a month.

PAIGE: Off just because.

PAIGE: Of the flight time and the cost. So you would go you'd save all your leave and you would take your time off. So I didn't really have much time coming into Moody Air Force Base, so I went straight there. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: Were you living on base at Moody?

PAIGE: I was. Okay.

ROWELL: Yes. And so obviously very different culture as you described earlier or mentioned. Would you like to say a little more about that? What some what that culture shock was for you again?

PAIGE: Yeah. I mean, you know, I think.

PAIGE: Looking back at Osborne, I mean, I think one of the main things there was I mean, obviously during my time, I mean, the the male to female ratio was just out of whack regardless. But at Austin in particular, it was very male heavy and it was a very big party culture. And so it really felt like a frat house. I mean, you know, I could go out with just enough money in my pocket to get a cab back and everything would be taken care of. I mean, really, the you know, the men catered to you there.

PAIGE: Right.

PAIGE: And that was good and bad. Going to Georgia was obviously different because, you know, less folks lived on.

PAIGE: Base.

PAIGE: Because obviously it's like a normal military base. Folks could have their family's culture was just different, you know, just in general, being in the South. You know, after living in Wisconsin for 18 years, that was definitely different.

PAIGE: And just I think the.

PAIGE: The culture of the base was different, too. Definitely more, I would say more relaxed, but like in a different type of relaxed. I mean, it was still a military culture and there's that structure. But. Usually coming from this base where it's like you're working 12 hour days, you're doing these exercises. It was more normal. You know, you were having normal days.

PAIGE: You could have a car.

ROWELL: So did you have a car?

PAIGE: I ended up getting a car.

ROWELL: Yeah. Okay. How many? How long into your period did you get a car?

PAIGE: You know, it's hard to remember because there's no seasons down there, really.

PAIGE: So I like there was warm weather, like it was.

PAIGE: Warm all the time. It was probably a couple months. And I remember I had to bum rides.

PAIGE: With my.

PAIGE: With my colleagues.

PAIGE: For quite some time.

ROWELL: Yeah. What was it like getting used to a whole new group of people? Well, not all new. But.

PAIGE: Yeah, you know, it was good. It was.

PAIGE: Good. We had a really good group there. So I really again, I lucked out. I mean, there were a few issues here and there, but. It was it was really nice. And I think having the two folks that I was in tech school with really helped kind of make it a little bit more easier of a transition.

ROWELL: And you see, so there was a higher support. There is a little more your closer to parity in terms of gender. Emery Maybe not parity, but closer.

PAIGE: As I Yeah, yeah.

PAIGE: I mean, what.

PAIGE: I would say definitely in our shop as well, I mean, we definitely had more females, so I would say it was. Probably closer to 50 or 50 in our office, I would say as far as male to female, although I say that and I'm like.

PAIGE: Maybe not.

ROWELL: Maybe just felt that way.

PAIGE: But yeah.

ROWELL: It's so different.

PAIGE: Yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: But so how did did that affect your, in your opinion, in your own experience, did that have an impact at all in your own the work environment in your group?

PAIGE: I don't know. You know, I think.

PAIGE: When I look back, you know, I know that there's, there's obviously been a lot of, of coverage over this, but the military culture in general was.

PAIGE: Not super conducive to women in.

PAIGE: General. You know, regardless of where I was, there was always that innuendoes.

PAIGE: You know, things that probably shouldn't have been said.

PAIGE: Regardless of what the office makeup was.

ROWELL: Yeah. And I was in the professional environment. Yeah. Did you ever discuss that with any of your peers, or was that. Did you more just do it on your own? And it was an understanding that you had for yourself?

PAIGE: I think it was just like one of those things where it was just like nobody really talked about it, to be honest. Like, I think.

PAIGE: The only.

PAIGE: Thing people really.

PAIGE: Talked about was.

PAIGE: The super bad stuff, right? Like when we're looking at, you know, sexual assault like that was and even then, you know, there were.

PAIGE: People who.

PAIGE: That happened to that that didn't speak up because, you know, they were scared. And I think that with all of these, you know, little things, like it was just like you kind of shrugged them off and you kept going because you're just like, this culture, this is like all I know.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: You know, I constantly have like, these inner thoughts about all of that of, like, you know.

PAIGE: So that big of a.

PAIGE: Deal, like, you know, like trying to, like consistently, but like, it's not that big of a deal. But then I'm like, go back.

PAIGE: I'm like, all.

PAIGE: Kind of is a big deal. Like, I don't know. It's like one of those really weird things.

PAIGE: And I think some.

PAIGE: Of it, too, is just the way that it was ingrained, that it was like, you're just not going to question it. Like, I remember.

PAIGE: At Mountain.

PAIGE: Home Air Force Base in particular, there was the fly. The fighter squadrons would go down and do exercises. They'd go to Las Vegas, to Nellis Air Force Base, and they would make like shirts or stickers or whatever. And it was like this huge thing. And their slogan for like the one time they went was.

PAIGE: Shocking Las Vegas.

PAIGE: And they had a hand signal that is very innuendo that I won't say we're for, but like that was on the sticker and that was okay. Like, even their commanders were using it. And it's like, okay, you know, like at that time you were just.

PAIGE: Like, okay, like, whatever. But now I look back and I'm like, Wow. Like that happened in my employment today. Like.

PAIGE: No way that person would be gone. Yeah.

ROWELL: So and so do you still kind of have those considerations internally where you're kind of trying to quantify your experience and your feelings about it in that way?

PAIGE: Yes, definitely. Definitely. And I remember it wasn't that long ago I went to there was a veteran's suicide conference, part of Veteran Affairs was doing across the state, and I decided to go. It was last summer sometime or spring, and there was a panel about like woman veterans. And I can't I can't even remember what it is about. And it was interesting because I really don't have like a strong woman veteran support system. Like, you know, most of the the women I served with aren't from here. You know, like we connect via social media. But like, other than that, it's like it doesn't really provide for a space to, like talk about this stuff.

PAIGE: And I remember the the woman was talking and it was just like, holy cow. Like half of these things. She said, like I dealt with, you know, and like I have. Question And for the first time, it was just like, okay, I'm not the only one, you know, like I.

PAIGE: It was like earth shattering for me. And I was like.

PAIGE: Okay, like. This. This.

PAIGE: I finally feel validated, like, weirdly, even though, like.

ROWELL: Yeah, it matters.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: And it's out. Yeah.

PAIGE: Usable. Yeah.

PAIGE: Because it feels like, you know, to.

PAIGE: Some, it may not seem like that big of a deal, but it's like when you spend the years hearing certain it's just like, wow, we really were, like, degraded.

PAIGE: And we just kept powering through it. Yeah.

ROWELL: Those individuals, too. Just on your own? Yeah. So, did you have anyone while you're at Moody who was especially supportive for you at that time?

PAIGE: Yeah. I mean, obviously, Sergeant Allen was there, and he was. Was huge for.

PAIGE: Me.

PAIGE: Again.

PAIGE: And he ended up.

PAIGE: Leaving before me.

PAIGE: He went to Hawaii next.

PAIGE: I remember I was so bummed because I had met my husband while I was in Georgia.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: He was Air Force as well, avionics. And so he worked on fighter jets and he could only work.

PAIGE: On.

PAIGE: F-16 attends. And I want to say there was like one other. And so that limited.

PAIGE: Where he could go. And so once.

PAIGE: We got married, we had like the joint spouses preference. And so that really messed with things.

PAIGE: So I got stuck at Moody forever.

PAIGE: It felt like for it was four years.

PAIGE: But in the military, that's a long time.

ROWELL: A very long time.

PAIGE: But, you know, so he left. But I also had a few.

PAIGE: First supervisor there. He was goofy. Also, you know, probably one of the people who also, you know, did a lot of set a lot of things that were not work appropriate. But I still love him as a person. I had Herman Miller. She was one who was with me at tech school and we ended up moving out together. She was my first roommate off base and that did not go well.

PAIGE: Now we realize working and living together was not a good thing. And but she's she's still great.

PAIGE: But, you know, she really became, I think, one of my solid female friends there for sure. And then we had Sergeant Thacker Andrea, who ended up becoming a civilian and working in our office, which was really great. But she was amazing as well. So I really had a good, good group there.

ROWELL: So so we'll come back around to the relationships. But for the moment, you mentioned so you had other temporary duty assignments while you're at Moody, is that correct? Yes. So one of those was the Joint Combat Camera Center at the Pentagon. Would you like to talk about that and how that happened?

PAIGE: Yeah. So, you know, I got to.

PAIGE: Moody Air Force Base and I think it was November of six.

PAIGE: And I am.

PAIGE: Sergeant Allen came, I think, shortly after that. And I think it might have been him who maybe made the connection.

PAIGE: But.

PAIGE: You know, they were in need of somebody. And, you know, they were just like, hey, you know, like I have an airman here. She is super motivated. Like, I think this would be a good experience opportunity.

PAIGE: And so I remember.

PAIGE: They asked me and they were like, it's going to be six.

PAIGE: Months.

PAIGE: I was like.

PAIGE: Heck, yeah, like sign me up.

PAIGE: Especially because I was like, Still, I don't really know how I feel about Georgia. Like, there's cockroaches and.

PAIGE: But so I went and.

PAIGE: It was.

PAIGE: Crazy.

PAIGE: I remember they.

PAIGE: Put me.

PAIGE: Up in like an executive apartment in, like, two blocks from the Pentagon.

PAIGE: Wow. Yeah. So, like, you know, I felt so bad, you know, like everybody else is getting, like, deployments and they're in tents. And here I am, like, in this nice furnished apartment with a balcony overlooking the Pentagon, walking distance. And so I went there and it was.

PAIGE: A really small office. There was about 6 or 7 of us. And then there was one civilian I remember name was Cindy. And I sat right outside of her office.

PAIGE: And we.

PAIGE: Were charged with processing all the visual information that was coming in from across the.

PAIGE: Globe.

PAIGE: And so, you know, as a photographer, videographer, you are documenting historic.

PAIGE: Missions and then you.

PAIGE: Submit it via I think it was FTP, although I think we start some satellite stuff for those who were deployed. But they would send it in, we would take it in, we would have to sort through all of those and go, you know, sometimes people would just send you like all sorts of you're like, okay, this really isn't that important. So we'd have to like cut stuff down, have to edit their captions.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Then like, get it on to the server. But then as part of that, we were also making I can't remember it was daily or weekly.

PAIGE: I it's boggling my.

PAIGE: Mind, but slideshows for the Joint Chiefs of Staff and so we had to like take like all these, you know, like what.

PAIGE: Was going.

PAIGE: On to like.

PAIGE: Put it on this.

PAIGE: Thumb drive. And we'd walk down to their office and we'd have to, like, put it in before they got there. And which was cool because I was.

PAIGE: The.

PAIGE: Lowest ranking individual in the Pentagon. And for me, like, that was crazy, you know, like being able.

PAIGE: To see, like.

PAIGE: Where all these decisions are made and where all the high ranking people are is just like, wow, this is a completely different side of the military. I mean, my arm got tired from having to salute all the time, you know, when I was outside. But it was just really cool. It was it was really neat. And I remember it. You know, there were a few things that happened. Like I want to say there was obviously there were wildfires in California that happened. And I remember like because of the time difference, like I had to work like a night shift because we were trying to get them in as quick as possible so we could, you know, get stuff grounded. You know, because, like, that's the other thing is some of the people who are making decisions aren't there. And so we were acting as like that, you know, person to help them see what.

PAIGE: What's going on on the ground.

PAIGE: So that was really cool. And then I remember there was like some stuff where we had groups in Djibouti and we were getting some stuff. And then obviously, you know, Iraq and Afghanistan, we were getting all of that in. And so that was just really cool.

PAIGE: And luckily, having the awesome boss.

PAIGE: That I did, Sergeant Allen, knew, you know, quite a bit of folks that worked at the.

PAIGE: Pentagon because if you, you know, were really good at what you did, you.

PAIGE: Obviously got cool assignments. And so.

PAIGE: He actually knew.

PAIGE: One of the photographers for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And so I was able to connect with him and like somebody that worked for the honor guard. And so when I wasn't working, I was able to go out and photograph some of that stuff. And I remember I got to photograph Peter Pace, who was the joint chief of staff at that time.

PAIGE: He was a marine, I believe.

PAIGE: And he did like a town hall type thing in the in the center of the Pentagon. There's like a courtyard. And I took his photograph and I was just.

PAIGE: Like so excited. And I got to meet him.

PAIGE: And Sergeant PIO was his name. He took a photo of us afterwards of me, like, shaking his hand. And I was so excited. I got a.

PAIGE: Coin and I was just like, This is great. And I remember I hounded him for a really long.

PAIGE: Time asking.

PAIGE: For that. No. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, I'll get to it or whatever. And it became this whole thing. And I was just so bummed because I was like, This is like such a cool experience. Like, I want it. And it turned.

PAIGE: Out.

PAIGE: That I.

PAIGE: From my time there.

PAIGE: I.

PAIGE: Was able to they put me in for joint. I think it was a Joint Service Achievement Medal. And so it was actually.

PAIGE: Signed by.

PAIGE: I think, the secretary of Defense himself.

PAIGE: But anyways, when they presented that, he.

PAIGE: Presented the photo with it. So he was kind of holding on to it because he knew it was happening and.

PAIGE: Okay.

PAIGE: Yeah, and he got it signed.

PAIGE: So I still have it. It's framed. I used to have it on my desk at work. Now that I work from home, I don't, but it's just cool memory.

ROWELL: Yeah, absolutely.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: And you were an airman first class at this point, or was it?

PAIGE: I think so. I got to think about that. I'm pretty sure.

PAIGE: I was in a onesie.

PAIGE: Yes.

ROWELL: Okay. And you were the lowest ranked. So what was that like for you in the office? Does that have any impact on, you know, just the work dynamic or anything?

PAIGE: I think it just felt weird because I think everybody just kind of looked at me like.

PAIGE: I didn't belong. I remember walking down the hallways. I remember somebody pointed out they were like, I don't think I've ever seen anybody with that rank in here. But, you know, it was it was an interesting dynamic, though, coming in because I was.

PAIGE: Obviously there temporarily.

PAIGE: So that was unique. But it was difficult because.

PAIGE: Everybody else that was there was an NCO, a noncommissioned officer. And so I didn't really have like any friends.

PAIGE: While I was there.

PAIGE: Really, because like that wasn't like a big thing of like, airman NCOs hanging.

PAIGE: Out.

PAIGE: And so that was hard. So I remember I was just like trying to make friends in my building. And I had met this really awesome gay couple. And then they moved and I was like devastated.

PAIGE: Because I was just like, I don't have anybody to hang out with.

PAIGE: So that was hard. I remember, like calling my friends back at Moody, like every night. They were probably.

PAIGE: So sick of me and watching a.

PAIGE: Lot of like, Gray's Anatomy because that was big back.

ROWELL: Then. Yeah. So. Also, maybe lonely because you're the only person of your rank with this experience you're having, so.

PAIGE: Yeah. No.

PAIGE: Correct.

ROWELL: Common experience to bond over.

PAIGE: Correct? Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. How long were you there?

PAIGE: I was there six months. Okay.

ROWELL: And then did you have any other schooling? Do you have any other temporary duty stations that you want to talk about?

PAIGE: Why was that? Moody?

ROWELL: Yeah. While you're at me.

PAIGE: Boy. I got to really think about that.

ROWELL: Well, you can come back around if you like.

PAIGE: I mean, I did do a couple.

PAIGE: So I went back for advanced.

PAIGE: Training.

PAIGE: Which those were like, temporary duties because we would go for 4 to 6 months when we went back for those trainings. So I did go back for.

PAIGE: That one about.

PAIGE: Adobe Creative Suite. So I went into that, which was cool.

PAIGE: And then I also.

PAIGE: Did I went down to Camp Blanding.

PAIGE: We had sounds silly, but we had combat.

PAIGE: Weathermen training and it was an army training and we had Air Force folks who were going down to do it. And so I went down for a couple of days and was able to follow them on their training, which was really interesting because it was obviously like. Pretty intense. And so I went down with one of our writers who was doing the writing, and then I was taking the photos. And so that was really cool to be able to go down and experience that.

PAIGE: And then my other ones.

PAIGE: Aren't too.

PAIGE: Wise.

PAIGE: I do have my one experience, our rescue mission. That was like a day mission.

ROWELL: So, yeah, because you mentioned that there was a rescue group at Moody. Would you like to say a little bit more about what that what that arrangement was, what they did and then what you did with them?

PAIGE: Yeah. So it was really cool about.

PAIGE: Moody Air Force Base is it was a rescue wing. So we had the A-10 fighter jets, we had C-130 cargo planes, and then we had 60 Pave Hawk helicopters. So with the helicopters, we obviously had our of rescue men.

PAIGE: And so they would.

PAIGE: You know, do their training and.

PAIGE: Whatnot.

PAIGE: So that was really cool. So, you know, even just like day to day stuff, like they'd call us out and be like, hey.

PAIGE: We're doing a training, do you want to come out?

PAIGE: And that was really cool. And sometimes we would get get to fly. And I remember there was like this whole ordeal about us trying to get like a basically a blanket statement that said like, Hey, we can fly because.

PAIGE: It was.

PAIGE: There's a lot of ins and outs with.

PAIGE: That.

PAIGE: And we had finally gotten.

PAIGE: That.

PAIGE: To a place where it was like, okay, like you guys are authorized. Like if something comes up like we can get you on because otherwise there were a lot of times they would want us to do something, but like to get that approval would just take too long.

PAIGE: And so we I remember I was sitting in the office one day and we.

PAIGE: Got a phone call and they were like, Hey, we're getting ready to go do a rescue mission. Is there anybody that can go?

PAIGE: And, you know.

PAIGE: My supervisor at the time walked over and was like, Hey, can you go? You got a bag? Like maybe just a day, maybe two day? Like, we don't know what's going on there. They just need it's a rescue in the Gulf. And I was like, yep, I'm ready. Like.

PAIGE: We're waiting for this because I was always wanted to fly. And so I remember I grabbed my stuff and.

PAIGE: Went over there.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Hopped in the bird.

PAIGE: And off we went.

PAIGE: And there were.

PAIGE: For sure two.

PAIGE: Helicopters that went. There might have been three, I can't remember. But, you know, I was sitting in my and so we had our, you know, obviously the pilot, the flight engineer and then the gunner.

PAIGE: And then we.

PAIGE: Had. Caregivers, 1 or 2 para rescue men that were in the helicopter with me. But it's just helicopters are really.

PAIGE: Special that there's nothing to them. So it's basically like this.

PAIGE: Open bay in the.

PAIGE: Back.

PAIGE: And so. Sitting on the floor, cross-legged, vibrating like nobody's business, and you're just like, it's loud and you.

PAIGE: Got a headset on. And so we're going and.

PAIGE: I'm like looking at my watch.

PAIGE: And I'm like, okay. Like, they're like, Yeah. So we're going to be like, out in the middle of the Gulf. And I'm like, okay. So like, how much more do we have to go? You know? And they're like, a couple of hours. So I'm like, okay. And so it was pretty cool because.

PAIGE: Because of that we did an air refueling and so we had one of.

PAIGE: The C-130s come and.

PAIGE: You know, they have the probe that they have to like hook up to. So we're like sitting there, you know, like.

PAIGE: Doing this thing, you know.

PAIGE: But so we got to do a couple of refuels, actually. So that was really cool.

PAIGE: But then.

PAIGE: You know, we are going and, you know, I'm kind of just taking photos here and there while we're flying there just because like obviously any opportunity to get a nice.

PAIGE: Portrait.

PAIGE: I'll do and to document the.

PAIGE: Mission.

PAIGE: But then as we were getting close, you know, we're starting to hear stuff over the headset. And, you know, I remember talking there like it's there was a capsized boat with, you know, Cuban individuals. And I was either 6 or 7. And I remember they said one one day and I was like, I don't.

PAIGE: Know what that means. Like what what is happening?

PAIGE: Which meant there was one that was dead on arrival. So we were rescuing primarily folks who were alive. And so they were on this like oil tanker, like dead smack in the middle of the Gulf. And so we had to go because the Coast Guard couldn't get there quick enough. And so we finally get out there. And I remember we get there and we're just like circling the ship. And we can see folks like obviously, like and, you know, they're talking on the headsets, like figure out what they're going to do. And so then, you know, my the para rescue mission in my helicopter is dropped.

PAIGE: Down on.

PAIGE: You know, the rope. And they get down and, you know, they're kind of triaging, assessing everything that's.

PAIGE: Going on and having these.

PAIGE: Things. And we're just circling and circling. And finally, you know, it was our turn to then bring up the pair of rescue men with our patients, if you will. And so we had, I want to say, 2 or 3 individuals that were brought up into.

PAIGE: Our.

PAIGE: Helicopter. And so, you know, I'm sitting here like trying to take photos.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: You know, while they're doing this and I it was just crazy. I just remember, like.

PAIGE: Them opening.

PAIGE: The doors and I'm sitting here and I'm like taking photos as he's coming up. And there was this woman in a stretcher. And I remember I'm just like watching this going, I can't believe I'm here right now.

PAIGE: Like, this is insane.

PAIGE: And so, you know, they're getting a re situated, but then, like obviously, like it's not very big back there. And so.

PAIGE: Now we have, you know, a woman.

PAIGE: Who's in a stretcher. We have another person. You know, they don't speak English.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: You know, this para rescue man now is really switching. And now he's, you know, trying to provide medical care. Right. Because like these these folks need it. They're dehydrated. You know, they're just they look very, you know, very ill. And so, you know, he's just on his feet.

PAIGE: And, you.

PAIGE: Know, you can't stand up in there. So you're just like crouching down. And I remember I'm like sitting kind of like in this corner, like trying to be out of the way. But then I'm like, how can I help? But also I know I need to take photos. And it was just like this moment of like, what do I do? And so I.

PAIGE: Think it's always hard, like in the photography arena when you're like in these situations because you know you're supposed to.

PAIGE: Be there to.

PAIGE: Be documenting, but as a human, you want to help, right? And so we took.

PAIGE: Them to New Orleans. And so, you know, we had a couple hour flight.

PAIGE: And I remember.

PAIGE: We got to New Orleans.

PAIGE: And we had.

PAIGE: To land on top of a hospital.

PAIGE: And so.

PAIGE: You know, we got on the roof or whatever, and they took the patients out the rescue.

PAIGE: And took them.

PAIGE: Out in on their their doing their stuff. And I didn't know if I could get out. So I stayed.

PAIGE: On.

PAIGE: And I remember I had to go to the bathroom really bad, which that's another story.

PAIGE: But but they get out, we go up so.

PAIGE: The other helicopter can land and we're kind of, you know, just going around and come back down and the para rescue man gets in and. I didn't realize that apparently this crew had also worked Hurricane Katrina, and that was one of the hospitals that they had gone to.

PAIGE: And so the.

PAIGE: Doctors and staff, when they learned that they were coming to drop off these individuals, they were lining the hallways and applauding them when they came in. And I was.

PAIGE: Like, my God, that would have been like an amazing photo. Also, like, completely just emotional. But I was like bummed. I missed that. But I remember when he came on.

PAIGE: I had to go to the bathroom, which I learned how to go to the bathroom in a pill pack, which was an exciting adventure and a fun story that I'll always think about.

PAIGE: But I remember.

PAIGE: You know, I had the headset on and that pair of rescue men was just like.

PAIGE: Upset with his performance of how he handled things that I just remember sitting there going, How how can you like the.

PAIGE: Amount that he did? Like any human being, like, I was just like, I can't even believe you're being hard on yourself right now. Like, from an outsider. Like, I'm just like you were. You were a hero.

PAIGE: And I just remember, I was just like, wow. Like, can't. I can't believe he thinks that.

PAIGE: You know, like. So I remember I was just trying to, you know, I was like, well, you know, like, I think he did an amazing job, you know, like.

PAIGE: I don't know, probably don't mean much, but coming from me. But I just remember that it was just.

PAIGE: Like, wow.

PAIGE: And then we flew back primarily.

PAIGE: In silence.

PAIGE: Back.

PAIGE: And I remember it was a long day. I want to say it was like a nine, ten hour day.

PAIGE: Of sitting on.

PAIGE: That helicopter and just seeing a lot.

PAIGE: Yeah, but it was.

PAIGE: Something I will definitely never forget. And obviously I have the.

PAIGE: Photos to always remember it, so that's kind of cool.

ROWELL: Is that among the photos that you plan to donate the copies? Great.

PAIGE: Yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah.

ROWELL: Do you want to talk about the the how you ended up addressing the Jordan because that started to.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: And also I just had a question. How did you compensate for the vibration when you trying to take photographs in the helicopter.

PAIGE: yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. So, you know.

PAIGE: I'll start with that piece.

PAIGE: You know, going through the.

PAIGE: The training and tech school obviously provided us with a solid foundation. But like as then you're kind of exploring stuff throughout. And luckily, you know, I had Sergeant Allen who was a really good photographer and he had spent a lot of time in fighter jets sitting in the back seat. Yeah, he got to sit in the back seat and do some really cool stuff. So he knew a lot about, you know, really how to control the situation when you're in the air. But, you know, there are a lot of things, the vibration.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Just light sources and whatnot. But you really had to focus.

PAIGE: On.

PAIGE: You know, your aperture and your shutter. So making sure that your shutter was at a speed that would take that picture quick enough so you're not getting that vibration. Because when you have the vibration, if you have a longer shutter, right. It's going to you're going to see that. Yeah.

PAIGE: But with that being said, that got me because then.

PAIGE: As I was photographing the helicopters that.

PAIGE: Were.

PAIGE: That was hovering over the oil tanker because I had my shutter so high, the blades are stop.

PAIGE: So it doesn't look, you know, so it looks like the helicopter's just floating in the air without blades moving. So that was.

PAIGE: That was a lesson learned that I kept to myself for for quite some.

PAIGE: Time.

PAIGE: Yeah, That's.

ROWELL: Really fascinating, though.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: Do you remember about what the speed is for, you know, in terms of the rotation.

PAIGE: I, I don't.

PAIGE: I don't.

ROWELL: Yeah. But so what are some of the other ways that you can, that you over time just learned to control the situation while you're in the field and you are in areas where the waiting and all these other things are hard to control?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: You know, I think it took a lot of practice. I remember when I first started, I would put my camera on like automatic settings, you know, it'd be like automatic shutter or whatever. And so basically, like, you know, in a in a digital SLR or a dSLR camera, you know, you have like you're basically like there's these little like views and matrix and where you focus and whatnot. And so, you know, I would put everything on an automatic and it was like how I did it.

PAIGE: But then, you know.

PAIGE: Sergeant Allen really started to get me to explore shooting manually, which means, you know, controlling my aperture shutter ISO and sometimes you know the focus as well. A lot of times I would do automatic folk focus and, you know, use the spot focus so I could control what was being focused on so I could play with that depth of field. But it really just took a lot of practice and really learning to spot things, you know? So looking at, you know, where is that light hitting? Like if I use my spot, focus on that one piece and metering for that light. So then I know like if I do, you know, this level of exposure, I'm going to get a nice glow on the face, but the rest is going to be dark. Or, you know, if I get the sun behind, I'm going to get a silhouette if I focus on this. So it was just really like a lot of trial and error, just really practicing and getting comfortable, you know, that's really what it is. And, you know, that's what I loved about it, is it was action photography, you know, like it wasn't. Yes, There were times that I did portrait photography and. And that was great. You know, I was in a controlled environment, but most of the time the stuff that I loved was not. And I loved that because for me. You know, they always say a picture is worth whatever it is. Like a thousand words.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah. And it's true. Like being able to capture someone in a moment and.

PAIGE: Capture that emotion. That's what I love about photography. And so being able to do that was was really cool. And so I just. You really had to practice in your mind. You had to think and go, okay, I got to you know, if I want that background, I'm going to need to, you know, do this with my aperture and I'm gonna have to adjust my shutter and my ISO for this.

PAIGE: And you just had to be quick.

ROWELL: Did it become intuitive? Much more intuitive over time?

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.

ROWELL: And then coming right back around to the helicopter thing.

PAIGE: Yeah. So I think I was.

PAIGE: Pretty much by the time we had left Moody Air Force Base and gotten to the hospital in Louisiana, I mean, I felt like we were at 6 to 8 hours is where we were at. And I hadn't gotten to the bathroom yet. And I really had to go.

PAIGE: Really had to go. And.

PAIGE: You know, but obviously, like we're in this thing where, you know, they're doing all this stuff and I'm like, I'm not trying to be an inconvenience and be like, Can I get off to go to the bathroom?

PAIGE: And I was the only female. Let's be real, Like, totally like, just. And so I was sitting back there.

PAIGE: And so, you know, the person finally comes back in and we finally go off. And I think he was like talking to me. I can't remember it was him or who it was. I think it was the pair of him in talking.

PAIGE: And he's like, You doing okay? And and I said, Yeah, you know, I was like, I really have to go to.

PAIGE: The bathroom.

PAIGE: Though. And he was like, yeah. He's like, You could have gotten off back there. And I was like, Yeah, well, nobody told you that. And I wasn't trying to be the comedians, you know. And so I was like and they're like, it's fine. We have we have plenty.

PAIGE: Of paddle packs. And I was like.

PAIGE: But. And he's like, hold on. And I remember he, like, digs in his bag and he pulls out this like, a little plastic pouch. And I was like, okay. And so I opened it and it was like.

PAIGE: This little clear plastic bag. And it had like this, like, powdery substance at the bottom.

PAIGE: And I was like, reading the instructions. I'm like, okay. So I'm like, so I supposed to go right here? And he's like, Well, we'll turn around. We won't look. And I was like, okay. And so, you know, so there's obviously the the pilot and the flight engineer who are looking for it. But then there's the aerial gunner who is sitting and they're looking.

PAIGE: Like they sit sideways. They're looking out the window.

PAIGE: And then.

PAIGE: The pair of rescue men sitting to the right.

PAIGE: Of me on the.

PAIGE: Floor.

PAIGE: And so they're like, well, just all face forward. I'm like, okay, so here I am, you know, in the back of this helicopter, which you can't stand up all the way in. And I'm like.

ROWELL: Everything's moving.

PAIGE: Everything's moving. And I didn't have a flight.

PAIGE: Suit because I wasn't like a flier. So like, I didn't have that, like, ease of just like a quick zipper. And so, like, you know, I'm in, like.

PAIGE: My full uniform, so I'm like, in the back trying not to move, like. And of course, I held it for a very long time. So it was just like really a long, drawn out thing. And I remember I can't remember if it was I think it was the flight. And you're like, he kind of looked back and he was like, I was like, you know, But so like, I know I get done and I have this proud plastic bag that's clear. And so then I'm like, What do I do with this? He's like, you can just.

PAIGE: Toss it out the side. And I was.

PAIGE: Like, What? He's like, Yeah, just sort of the thigh was like overland at this point. yeah. We were over Louisiana and I was like, I was like, okay. So I did. And I was just like, Some poor kid is probably going to like, this is going to land like in some playground somewhere. So yeah, so I literally have.

PAIGE: I'm pretty sure I still have the plastic wrapper from.

PAIGE: That and I still have.

PAIGE: Somewhere I need to find it. But I also have we were writing notes. The person and I were like writing notes because there were times we couldn't.

PAIGE: Be on the intercom.

PAIGE: And he like, wrote me notes and I, like, kept one of those notes, like, like I ripped the piece out because I was just like, I feel like I want to have this. Like, I know it's like a silly, like memento, but it's just something that I like kept. But but yeah.

PAIGE: So then I got back and.

PAIGE: I remember I was like the talk of the town.

PAIGE: For.

PAIGE: Quite some time because apparently.

PAIGE: Like the whole rescue community was like, man, like, well, they.

PAIGE: Started calling me Piddle Park, but.

PAIGE: They're like, like I told my spouse about you because like, you know, we do these road trips and she's always complaining about how she has to go to the bathroom. And, you know, I told them that like you did in the back alley, like helicopter. And I was like, that's great. That's what I'm going to be known for. So but that's always.

PAIGE: My funny stories. I always tell people about it, you know?

ROWELL: Yeah, I know. That's a great one.

PAIGE: Have you ever been in a helicopter? I have, yes.

PAIGE: So another icebreaker?

ROWELL: Absolutely. So we actually would I say, quick break through.

PAIGE: I'm I'm fine.

ROWELL: Unless you want to. I think we will.

PAIGE: So, okay.

ROWELL: This concludes segment two of the interview with Gina Page. On February 27th, 2023. Okay. This begins segment three of the interview with Paige on February 27th, 2023. So we were discussing that photographic operation that you went on. Were there. Was there anything else? Any other trips or any memorable operations or missions that you embarked on when you were at Moody as photographer? Do you want to talk about.

PAIGE: I think that was the main main items for me there as far as like mission related.

ROWELL: Yeah. I found a photo that you took of when I was doing some research of this testing or a demonstration of the accident. I also saw.

PAIGE: Yes, yes.

ROWELL: With the eight 20th security forces.

PAIGE: Yes.

ROWELL: Would you like to tell me about that day?

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah, I forgot about that.

PAIGE: Yeah. So we were.

PAIGE: One of the basses. I think it might have been us and one other bass who was kind of piloting this new system, and it was called the Active Denial System.

PAIGE: And sounds crazy.

PAIGE: That what it was. But basically it was this Humvee and it looked like it had this, like, satellite dish on top. And what they would do with it was basically like microwaves. So they would use this technology.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: You know, they would set in the system like there's a group of people about this far away, and it would send, like, this this wave.

PAIGE: And it would cause those individuals.

PAIGE: Body temperatures to rise to a place where it'd be uncomfortable and people would disperse. And so it was like this new, like technology to think about like crowd control or whatever it may be. And so, you know, we had this.

PAIGE: I.

PAIGE: Want to say it was just north of the bay. So it was one direction of the base. We had like our shooting range because we had the eight tens. And so they have like the guns. And so they would go do their shooting range. But then with our pair of rescue men and we have this unique security forces group, they would go and do a bunch of training out there. And so it was like the prime place to do this because there was like this.

PAIGE: Big old.

PAIGE: Field. And so they were constantly out there working on it. And we ended up.

PAIGE: Having the.

PAIGE: There was this show, I can't remember. It was like on the History Channel. It was called Future Weapons. And so it was this natural national show. And he came down, the host came down.

PAIGE: And, you know.

PAIGE: He did a segment on it and document. And so I was there. I got to help. And, you know, I obviously was photographing and all of that. And so it was really cool to see that technology. And I remember I went and I, I got.

PAIGE: Close. I didn't want to do it. I rather they there like you can go do it. I was like, I don't know how I feel about this. And so as.

PAIGE: I was taking photos, I got a little closer than I could feel like my body was heating and I was just like, This is crazy.

PAIGE: But it was cool because I.

PAIGE: Was able to kind of it was kind of this same group of people. And so I would go out because we had to kind of document all of this, you know, because it's obviously historical. And so I got to know the group, but that I remember we there was an issue they were kind of doing one of the practices.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: I can't remember if there was like a malfunction or if what happened, but it ended up being that the strength of the like wave or whatever you want to call it, ray wave was too high and it ended up causing burns to the group of individuals who were like out in that test. And so I happened to be on alert photography that day. And so we had to.

PAIGE: Have them come in.

PAIGE: One of them was like severely burned. He actually.

PAIGE: Got.

PAIGE: Taken to like Augusta or Atlanta and had to get like skin grafts.

PAIGE: But most of the folks.

PAIGE: Were I mean, they weren't lucky because nobody wants that to happen to them, but they had less damage. But it was I remember like having to take photos and it was just unfortunate. It was all over their bodies. And it was it was crazy. But prior to that, it was really cool, you know, to obviously watch them test the system and and see how it worked.

ROWELL: And so that was a separate incident from when they debuted it for the press.

PAIGE: Yes.

PAIGE: Yes. That was much later. So because we I mean, if I remember correctly, it was like months that we were kind of using the system, so.

ROWELL: Yeah. The photo, I think, was of a journalist. Yeah. Yeah. I think you caught him as he was.

PAIGE: Yeah, I can't remember his name either.

PAIGE: I remember he was bald.

PAIGE: But, yeah, he, like, tested it out, and it was so cool to, like, watch them, like, to see how they produce this television show. You know, it's it's pretty, pretty unique to be on the other side.

ROWELL: Absolutely. Any other kind of public facing events that you remember from the time.

PAIGE: I think that was the main stuff.

PAIGE: I mean, we always were kind of dealing obviously with the media coming.

PAIGE: On any time.

PAIGE: We had a homecoming, you know, that was a.

PAIGE: Huge, huge deal.

PAIGE: You know, and we would help folks get situated with that.

PAIGE: But I think I think that was it there.

ROWELL: So you met your husband, Josh Paige?

PAIGE: Yep.

ROWELL: At Moody. Would you like to tell me a bit about that?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: So when I was.

PAIGE: At Woody Air Force Base, it was. I always got to, like, do my ears. I want to say it was towards animals. Then shortly after I came back from the Pentagon, I think I moved off base. And we had there was a base that was in North Carolina. And I am I can't remember which one it was, but they were.

PAIGE: Combining.

PAIGE: Their A-10 unit with our unit. So we were taking some of their aircraft and so they were bringing people down and he was in that group.

PAIGE: And they moved off base.

PAIGE: And I was in this apartment building. Of course, you know, we were young at that time. I was I had just I was 21 or 22. And so, you know, like you're young, you're obviously kind of partying. And I remember like we had just moved in. And as we were moving in, we saw like this group of guys across the way, an apartment.

PAIGE: And you were like, like, we're so excited.

PAIGE: And a couple of days later we like, saw them like, park right in front of our apartment. And we were like.

PAIGE: Hey, like we just moved in. We're having some friends over. Like, if you want to come over like that, be cool. And so they ended up coming over and. Yeah.

PAIGE: It. Yeah, it was just like, I feel like.

PAIGE: Everything moves quick in the military. And so I.

PAIGE: Think our relationship moved really fast because that was like December. I remember like one of our like first kind of like real dates was New Year's Eve. And then like by March, we like, moved in together.

PAIGE: And the rest is history.

ROWELL: Yeah, Yeah. And how, how much interaction did you get to have? So you were clearly working in different parts of the base? Yes, that kind of thing. So I was mostly just off duty.

PAIGE: Yes.

PAIGE: Yeah, we had very different military experiences. He was on the flight line. So, you know, working directly with the fighter jets, he worked longer days and really didn't have flexibility to really a lot of times, like they didn't even get to leave the flight line for lunch. So most of the time it was, you know, outside of the base. And then later that got challenging because he had to do a lot of shift work. And so that really made things interesting.

ROWELL: When did you two get married?

PAIGE: July 6th, 2009.

ROWELL: Okay. And what year did you meet?

PAIGE: We met at the end of seven.

ROWELL: Okay. All right. So you were planning you're planning this wedding while you're at Moody, is that correct?

PAIGE: Yeah. I mean, it wasn't a wedding.

PAIGE: No. No.

ROWELL: So how did that. How that worked for you? Because it's all different, right?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: So I think a.

PAIGE: Lot of the time in our relationship makes sense, too.

PAIGE: So. So we moved in.

PAIGE: Together in like March.

PAIGE: And then in.

PAIGE: I want to say it was September timeframe, he actually deployed. So we're really only together for a few short months.

PAIGE: He deployed.

PAIGE: And I remember we got a dog before he left.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: I went on a six month deployment, came back. I think that put him around like March.

PAIGE: Timeframe of nine.

PAIGE: And then.

PAIGE: We.

PAIGE: Went to Vegas together.

PAIGE: In May of nine, and we were.

PAIGE: At the Venetian. We were on a gondola ride.

PAIGE: And he proposed on the ride, which I'll never forget because like I have, I have some anxiety. And we were on the scandal and we had to wear these seat belts on the the little gondolier guys on the back. And yeah, he's like, my God. He's like, My heart's beating.

PAIGE: Really.

PAIGE: Fast. And I was like, my God. Like, are you okay? And I'm like, freaking out thinking like, something's wrong. And he was like, Yeah, no, no, no, I'm fine. And he's like, trying to, like, move and get down on one knee. But his seat belt it in and like, the gondolier guy is like, you can take the seatbelt off. And so he proposed and.

PAIGE: It was, it was cute. It was romantic.

PAIGE: But I remember.

PAIGE: I called my parents, obviously, like after that happened.

PAIGE: And I remember being on an escalator in one of the casinos going up and.

PAIGE: I'm calling them and my parents are like, I just figured you're calling to tell us that you got married.

PAIGE: I was like, No, I just got engaged. But so yeah, so we got engaged in May.

PAIGE: And once it was like May 9th or 10th.

PAIGE: And then a couple.

PAIGE: Months later we got married and it was like kind of on a whim, you know, Originally.

PAIGE: I was like, my God, I'm going to have a wedding.

PAIGE: You know, Like, I think every girl dreams of that. And then I think I got like one bridal magazine. And then I was like, How are we going to do this? Like, your family's on the West Coast. My family is from the Midwest. We're living in Georgia, We're in the South. Like, what.

PAIGE: Do we do?

PAIGE: Plus at that time, you know, I wasn't making like, you know, much money. And so then I.

PAIGE: Was like, my God, Like, how are we going to pay for this?

PAIGE: And so we were kind of like, I don't know, maybe we should just, like, go to the courthouse. And so I remember we had an extended weekend. So a lot of.

PAIGE: Times.

PAIGE: When there was like a holiday weekend, they would they were called family days and we would get like an extra day off. And so it was the 4th of July weekend and we had a family day. And I remember I called around and the county we lived in was booked, but there was a smaller.

PAIGE: County and.

PAIGE: Lanier County, Georgia.

PAIGE: And I was like, Hey, do you have any availability? And they're like, Yeah, you know? And I was like, Okay, sounds great. So we show up and.

PAIGE: I nobody knew except I had called one of my coworkers and I was like, Hey, can you come take some photos? You know? So we.

PAIGE: Have something. And he's like, Yeah. And I want to tell you what I was like, okay, sounds good. So we show.

PAIGE: It to the New York County Courthouse.

PAIGE: And filling out the.

PAIGE: Paperwork, you know, and I think I like, went like the.

PAIGE: It was like a Sunday.

PAIGE: And everything's like closed in the South and I'm trying to find a white dress. And I found like this, like white, little like dress, you know, it's like my only option. And I ended up buying it.

PAIGE: But anyways, so we go to the courthouse and they're like, okay, so where do you want to do this? And I was like, Well, don't, don't you have like a spot or something?

PAIGE: Because like, the courthouse in Lawrence County had like a nice place that they would do it.

PAIGE: And she's like, No.

ROWELL: And she was like, Well, we.

PAIGE: Could do.

PAIGE: Judy's office. She has a window. It's really nice.

PAIGE: And we were like, Sure, dude, his office sounds great. And so we went down. We all we still joke about it to this day, Judy's office. And, you know, we don't even have rings in.

PAIGE: Gately, you know, like wedding.

PAIGE: Bands to exchange. And we took our vows and we did some pictures in the park afterwards and then went back home and.

PAIGE: Called over some of our bodies and were like, Hey, you.

PAIGE: Guys want to come over for a barbecue? And they're like, Yeah, we got nothing to do.

PAIGE: And so, like.

PAIGE: Every time we could maybe be like, Hey, you know, welcome to Page.

PAIGE: Residence. And like, nobody really said anything until the last group came in and they were like.

PAIGE: Hey, you guys like, get married or something? And we were like, Actually, yeah, we did. And everybody was like, What? And so we ended up just like.

PAIGE: Having a party on a random Monday night.

PAIGE: And I remember I didn't nobody at work knew except my boss because I called them and I was like, I'm going to be tomorrow off and do much fun. But I remember I.

PAIGE: Went and got a new name tag and at that time I hyphenated my last name. So wish everybody Page was really long. So my letters were really tiny.

PAIGE: And I was like, I'm just going to see how long it takes somebody.

PAIGE: To notice. And it took a solid, like four hours before somebody realized I had a different name tag on.

PAIGE: But yeah, so we yeah, we definitely moved pretty quickly. But I think.

PAIGE: The, the scary thing was being dual military, you know, if one of us got orders and then we had to like get married after like is it, we were like, it just makes sense. And I think some of it too was, you know, he went on that deployment and I think that really helped our relationship and really built that trust, I think, at the.

PAIGE: Beginning, because that's a lot, you know, it's hard to be away for six months. There's a lot of people who can't.

PAIGE: Do that or fathom that. And so, you know, I was obviously still there.

PAIGE: When he came back and.

ROWELL: Yeah, yeah. How did you kind of handle that when during that first deployment in the early days?

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, I think out of.

PAIGE: All that was probably one of the easier ones, really. And I think because some of that was like I was still like very independent, right? Like, because that relationship was new.

PAIGE: I mean.

PAIGE: Obviously I was committed to him. But, you know, like I just we hadn't had that opportunity to to get into like our routine as a couple. And I also had a good buddy that his girlfriend was deployed as well. And so that was kind of like, you know, we would hang out and we still joke to this day. Like I saw him a couple of years back. He came through town and like we would order wings. And, you know, he liked to flat or I liked the flats. He like drumsticks and, you know, so it was.

PAIGE: Like would get wings all the time. And it was perfect because he like though, you know, and it was.

PAIGE: Just like nice to have that person to kind of rely on, you know. But as our relationship grew and, you know, later, you know, he had a few more deployments and each one of those kind of became a little bit more complicated.

ROWELL: Yeah. Those your lives intertwined?

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: Further? Absolutely. So is there anything else from your time at Moody that you'd like to discuss before we move to your next assignment?

PAIGE: I don't think so. Okay, good.

ROWELL: All right. And so you left Moody In what year can you remind me?

PAIGE: 2010.

ROWELL: 2010? Okay. So your next duty station was Mountain Home, as you mentioned? Yes. What unit did you serve with there?

PAIGE: Why am I spacing it?

ROWELL: Okay. I have three, three, 66, 60, 65.

PAIGE: Yes.

PAIGE: That is correct.

PAIGE: Public Affairs Office. Yes.

ROWELL: Okay. Just just confirming, you know. And so you did you move there as a family? As a couple?

PAIGE: Yes. Yes.

ROWELL: And what prompted that move? So you said you stayed at Moody longer than you might have otherwise because you were spouses and that. Correct. On your side?

PAIGE: Yes.

ROWELL: So how did Moody come about?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: So I was really starting to get antsy.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: I really wanted I was ready to leave. I there were kind of a few things that had kind of transcend. The first was, you know, I talked a little bit before about how our career filled kind of had some unique things. And one of those things was.

PAIGE: We.

PAIGE: Had a partnership with Syracuse University and there was a program where you would go and I can't remember it was 1 or 2 years, but you basically went they pick like the top four photographers across the entire Department of Defense.

PAIGE: And you would go.

PAIGE: And you went to Syracuse University and you're basically a civilian for that.

PAIGE: Time.

PAIGE: And I had applied.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Through a little bit of politics that were involved.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Ended up not going, not being selected. And then I was like an alternate. It was this whole.

PAIGE: Thing.

PAIGE: Anyways. And so I was kind of like upset about that.

PAIGE: And I was just like.

PAIGE: Really, really wanted to go. I was ready for a new challenge. I'd been there for quite some time.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: I was really wanting to go to a combat camera, which was.

PAIGE: There.

PAIGE: Was a combat camera squadron at that time. The the main I think there was only really one active duty, one for the Air Force, and that was in Charleston, South Carolina. And that was basically where, like when you were stateside, you were training and then you were just basically going overseas.

PAIGE: You know.

PAIGE: Documenting missions and going out with different branches of service. And, you know, I had a lot of buddies who had gone there. And for me, I was like, that's what I want to do. Fortunately, when Josh and I got married, that wasn't an option anymore because he couldn't be stationed there.

PAIGE: And so that.

PAIGE: Was a sacrifice I had to make.

PAIGE: Which was tough.

PAIGE: Because I really, really wanted to to do that.

PAIGE: But I moved forward.

PAIGE: And so I was kind of in contact with someone in our career field.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: You know, was kind of in talks with him. And he was kind of in a position where he could, you know, kind of touch base with our assignment manager. And so they were kind of working on things. And and he was like, hey, like I, I can get.

PAIGE: You in the Mountain.

PAIGE: Home Air Force Base, Idaho. And I was like.

PAIGE: What? And Josh was like, yeah, it'll be awesome.

PAIGE: Like, you grew up in Oregon, so obviously, you know, that's that's closer to home. And he's like, it's really great there. And and I was like.

PAIGE: I don't know.

PAIGE: But I was like, Yeah, I guess anything is better than Georgia because I was kind of sick of it. And so we got the orders.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: I remember. When we got the orders, they reached out to.

PAIGE: Me and.

PAIGE: They were like, Hey, like you're also going to be up for a bucket to deploy. So, like, you're going to get here and then your bucket is slated to leave like three months later or something. And they were like, You're slated to go to so-and-so. I can't remember what. And I was like, okay. And so that was unique because I was like, okay. And so, like, I was navigating like preparing to transition, but then also deploy. And we finally got to Idaho, and then it turned out my deployment was.

PAIGE: I don't want to say taken, but.

PAIGE: That's kind of what happened. There was a reservist who wanted to take it. And so, like, there's an option for them if they, like basically see something.

PAIGE: And so they took it. And so then I was off the hook.

ROWELL: How did you feel about that at the time?

PAIGE: You know, I was bombed and I was bombed because.

PAIGE: One of the things I didn't.

PAIGE: Touch on.

PAIGE: Would be Air Force Base was I kept waiting for my deployment bucket to come.

PAIGE: Up.

PAIGE: And it was just like every time a bucket came up, like I just they didn't need anybody from like our base or, you know, there's like these whole, you know, a lot of factors. And so finally, I volunteered to do TCN duty, which is third country national duty. And basically you go over and you kind of provide security. So, you know, there's individuals from, you know, the country that you're in working on base.

PAIGE: Whether they're cleaning, building.

PAIGE: You know, whatever it may be. And so I was like, I want to go like, I joined the military. Like, I feel like, you know, I need to go over there. Like, that's part of being in the military. And so I volunteered. I had to go through additional training because, like, obviously it's a little bit different. You had to, you know, be qualified on both M16 and.

PAIGE: M9 and.

PAIGE: You just had to learn like de-escalation training and all this stuff since you'd be doing security. And so I went through all that. Left Moody Air Force Base sitting in Baltimore, waiting, waiting for the rotator. And right before my phone service got shut off, I got a call and they're like, You not get on the plane. And I was like.

PAIGE: What?

PAIGE: And there were two of us and our taskings got canceled.

PAIGE: And they sent us back home. And I was just like, Here I am again. So I was just like, you know? And sometimes I'm like, you know, I'm not a religious person, but I'm like, maybe there's someone who is watching over me and knew that I shouldn't be there both times. I don't know. Yeah. So, but yeah. So that was.

PAIGE: A really tough pill to swallow. So I never really did true.

PAIGE: Combat.

PAIGE: Even though I wanted to. And that's always been something that I've carried with me because I feel like, you know, those of us who haven't feel.

PAIGE: Maybe that we don't.

PAIGE: I don't know that we didn't do our duty or we feel less of a veteran if that makes sense.

ROWELL: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And when you're talking about, you know, going overseas and that that's for you, that was part of being in the military, was that a factor of you entering after, you know, post 911 during the global war on terror era?

PAIGE: Definitely.

PAIGE: You know, I think for me it was, you know, I just I.

PAIGE: I just wanted to really, I think, support the nation.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: You know, I, I would always think to to like all the the freedoms we have, especially as women in our country. Like, yeah, I mean, we're obviously not perfect, but there's still a lot we need to focus on with women's rights and LGBTQ and and all that. But, you know, there's a lot of other nations that don't, you know.

PAIGE: Have.

PAIGE: In countries that don't, you know, have that same thing. And so for me, it was like I wanted to to find a way to help. And and for me, you know, I felt that once I got in.

PAIGE: You know, I don't that.

PAIGE: I wasn't like gung ho, like, I want to deploy, you know, I wasn't like the, the, the military member who wanted to be in security forces or be a prior recipient and have that direct combat like that wasn't me. Also at that time, women weren't really allowed to be in direct combat roles. But, you know, as I was in and I heard other other folks share their stories and, you know, see these images coming and the missions that they were on, like I just felt like, I want to do that. I need to do that.

ROWELL: Yeah. So absolutely. So right at the beginning, that deployment got canceled. So and you mentioned that your husband, Josh, was deployed. Did that happen multiple times while you were at Mountain Home or was it more was at once?

PAIGE: So he had his one deployment.

PAIGE: When we were at Moody Air Force Base. And then he had.

PAIGE: Two.

PAIGE: Deployments when we were stationed in Idaho.

ROWELL: We can work.

PAIGE: Chronologically. Yeah.

ROWELL: So And what was your what was your rank when you moved on to Mountain Home?

PAIGE: At that time, I was.

PAIGE: A staff sergeant at that time. My gosh. I'm trying to remember. Yes.

PAIGE: Okay. Yes. Pretty sure I was a staff sergeant before I left Moody Yeah.

ROWELL: And then so moving yet again, did the culture feel different in terms of your workplace, in terms of the community or a different dynamic about that?

PAIGE: Yeah, that was definitely different. I didn't know anybody heading into this, that base, so that was definitely different. There's also a different dynamic because some of the bases we're starting to have civilian public affairs officers and so we had that. So that was that was a very different dynamic, having a non military member leading us. But yeah, I mean the culture was definitely different. I mean, you went from, you know, quoted the, you know, the South and.

PAIGE: Then now I'm.

PAIGE: In this high desert area.

PAIGE: And it's just like way, way different.

ROWELL: And not only, you know, the landscape and everything like that, but also socially. Was it pretty different?

PAIGE: Yeah, I mean, definitely. I mean, I think Mountain Home.

PAIGE: Was I thought Moody Air Force Base. So was in Valdosta, Georgia, which I thought was small, really wasn't that small. I mean, we had a shopping mall. There was Valdosta, there was a university there. So like.

PAIGE: It was bigger than.

PAIGE: You know, what I did, what I thought I was. And then I.

PAIGE: Moved a mountain home.

PAIGE: And that was a small town. And that was literally in the middle of nowhere. I mean, it is like a town of 10,000 people and. That's it. Like you're you're popped in the high desert. And so that was like my first taste of a really military town in a small town. And that was hard for me because I was used to having, you know, amenities.

PAIGE: And things to do. And there really wasn't much to do.

PAIGE: Without driving a solid 45 minutes to an hour.

ROWELL: Yeah. And you mentioned the military town piece. Could you say a little more about that?

PAIGE: Yeah. I mean.

PAIGE: That town was really made up of folks who were current active duty military, you know, that were living there. And then there were a lot people who retired there because the cost of living was, you know, really good. So so it was just like there was that connection. Like I remember there was the Air Force Appreciation Day, which was like a huge day. And they had this like crazy long parade. And in fact, I got to be a judge for one year.

PAIGE: But. You know, it was just it.

PAIGE: Was interesting because it was like no matter where you went, you would always see somebody, you know, from the base, which is kind of like you could never really escape. So that was definitely, definitely interesting.

ROWELL: Sort of difficult to cope with at times or or just not your preference.

PAIGE: And so I think just not my preference. I think everybody like, wants sometimes like an outlet to kind of get away. And that was just like, I didn't feel that there. But there were nice parts of that, too, because you did get close knit, you know, with people.

ROWELL: So and so you were a dual military couple at Moody and also no mountain home. Was the kind of attitude towards you as a couple, either in your working environment or socially about the same in those two environments, or were you received a little differently? What was that like?

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, it was nice because.

PAIGE: I have a good friend, her name's Yvonne that I met at Mountain Home, and they were a dual military couple as well. And then I knew a few other like I kind of opened this gate to dual military couples. And it was funny because I felt like there were a.

PAIGE: Lot more at Mountain.

PAIGE: Home and I don't know why. Maybe it was just because now I was more cognizant of it being one, you know? But I think.

PAIGE: That.

PAIGE: Personally, that wasn't really like a challenge at all. I think professionally that was definitely a challenge just because I there were a lot more stressors.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Uncertain things, you know, where it was like, you know, Josh was working these swing shifts and so he's on night shift. And I remember as he was getting ready to deploy, I was really struggling because I was just like, you know, a lot of the spouses, military spouses.

PAIGE: You know, there was there was.

PAIGE: A chunk that work, but there were a lot that didn't, you know, were stay at home moms. And I remember I was just like, you know, these.

PAIGE: These folks.

PAIGE: Have a different situation where their spouses can, you know, cater their schedule, where it was like for me, I was working during the day. And then he's got like, we never saw each other. And I was really struggling. And I remember I went to my first sergeant about it and it was like this whole ordeal. And then my Josh got mad because my first sergeant talked to his first sergeant.

PAIGE: And I was just like struggling because I was like, you know, I feel like we have a unique.

PAIGE: Situation and like, it would be nice if we could, you know, have your your shift.

PAIGE: Changed so.

PAIGE: We can, you know, see each other before you leave.

ROWELL: Right before you leave to there a timeline on that?

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. Were you able to at any point receive like and get an arrangement that was one more favorable for you?

PAIGE: Not really. I think we got like maybe two weeks.

PAIGE: Before he left, but he was pretty much.

PAIGE: Almost the.

PAIGE: Entire time we were in Idaho. He was on a night shift.

ROWELL: Wow.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: That's challenging.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah. So?

ROWELL: And so you went to your first sergeant. Did you feel like you had a little bit of a support network there? Kind of professionally? What was that like for you?

PAIGE: Not really. Not there. I my first sergeant was okay there.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah. Previously, you were pretty close to other people in your work environment, so. Yeah.

PAIGE: Yeah. I would say my own home was kind of the.

PAIGE: I mean, I think there.

PAIGE: There were people in my office who I definitely was closer with, but there were there are a lot of issues.

PAIGE: In that unit.

ROWELL: We can correct that at another point, if you like. Yeah. You did mention the civilian element in public affairs group and that that created a different dynamic because you were being directed by a civilian. Would you like to say a little bit more about what that was like and your perspective on it?

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, I think.

PAIGE: It is obviously different having a civilian come in because obviously they haven't been in your shoes, you know, and.

PAIGE: Don't.

PAIGE: Fully understand the military life and culture. So I think that was.

PAIGE: One piece of it.

PAIGE: I think the other piece, this individual in particular was just there were a lot of issues there.

PAIGE: And. For sure dealing with.

PAIGE: I felt that he.

PAIGE: Was.

PAIGE: Pretty sexist and didn't really necessarily.

PAIGE: His belief structure maybe didn't.

PAIGE: Align with women being in certain leadership.

PAIGE: Positions.

ROWELL: Okay. So that would have certainly impacted your professional trajectory also. Yeah. Did you at the time feel there was any anyone you could discuss that with any recourse for, for that?

PAIGE: Yeah. So I remember so when we got to to my own home.

PAIGE: I want to say it was like October or September or October timeframe of 2010. And I remember I was there for like a couple of months.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: I just like was like, I don't know, like, this sounds just not right. Like, I just kind of had this feeling. And I remember I was a staff sergeant and so I was. Put into place to like, be over like, one of our, like, units within our office. And I think it was like the photographers to, like, be their supervisor.

PAIGE: And I remember, like, I was put into this.

PAIGE: Position on like Friday afternoon.

PAIGE: And by like.

PAIGE: Monday afternoon he was already like, Yeah, she's not the right fit for this.

PAIGE: And I was just like, okay, I've had like 12 hours in this role. How am I not the right fit? Like, you have no clue what I can do. And I was just like.

PAIGE: Something's not right. Like, and to not sound full of myself, but I was a high performer. You know, I had I just, you know, I won all these awards. I had all this recognition at the Department of Defense and at the Air Force level. And, you know, I was very skilled in my craft. And I came here and then all of a sudden it was like, you suck. Like you're not you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know what you're doing. And I was just like, This doesn't compute. This doesn't make sense. Like.

PAIGE: And so there was just like these constant.

PAIGE: Issues of where it was like, I would do something. And he was complaining too, you know, like, whatever. And it was just like this constant thing. And I remember I eventually went to my first sergeant and I was just like. Something's not right. Like. Like. And I remember I went and had that conversation, like, trying to say. Like, I'm not trying to be full of myself, but, like.

PAIGE: This, just how can I come from.

PAIGE: This place where, like, you know, I'm getting, you know, what was a firewall five or whatever, like mindless performance parts I was doing really well, is being nominated for air and the corridors, you know, and the corner. And then I come here and he's like trying to downgrade me and like, demote me out of positions after being in there a day. And like, I like, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. And that was not taken very well. I remember he like, I don't even remember. I feel like he kind of brush it off. And then I was like, okay. And that I remember there were conversations that were had in the office. And, you know, I had a senior NCO and Sergeant Cook was his name. And I remember he was kind of trying to like be the mediator. And we were like in the office. And I remember I just looked at the one gentleman, I don't really want to say his.

PAIGE: Name and.

ROWELL: That's fine.

PAIGE: And I was just like.

PAIGE: You know, and I straight up said, I think you treat me different because I'm a female. And it was like record stop. And everybody just like stared at me. And I where I was delivered to, I was just like, trying to hold it together. And they excuse me out of the office and I don't remember what happened after that.

PAIGE: But.

PAIGE: You know, it just kind of got to this point where I felt like there were like these constant things happening. And I kind of started to have some conversations with other females in the office and even males. And I was just like, I don't know, Like, I'm just like, something's just not.

PAIGE: And so I ended up going to.

PAIGE: Talk with our equal opportunity individual and our inspector general. And, you know, it kind of became this thing. And I ended up filing a formal complaint.

PAIGE: Which was scary for sure.

PAIGE: You know, I do know it was supposed to be anonymous. I think it ended up being anonymous. No.

PAIGE: You know.

PAIGE: Or small enough shop that anything you put down, he's going to know who it was. And so that became a really tough time. It was very stressful. And I, you know, as I was kind of going through that, I was really guessing. Like second guessing, like, is this what I want to be doing anymore? Is this where I want to be? And so we were kind of navigating that process, doing interviews with all the staff. And, you know, there were quite a few people who, you know, basically reported similar things and were able to, you know, corroborate what I said. And apparently it wasn't.

PAIGE: It wasn't a.

PAIGE: Smoking gun. So they did nothing. Maybe they gave him a slap on the wrist. I don't know. And that was kind of the final nail in the coffin. I was just like, I can I can't do this anymore. And right around that time, too, I was having my daughter. And so I was just like, I think it's time. And so and I remember since I worked in the public affairs office, we were like right by the the wing commander.

PAIGE: You know, who.

PAIGE: Oversees the base. And so I'd go up there because I would talk with like his his staff support. And, you know, and I remember I was there and I was chatting and.

PAIGE: He came out and he was like, you know, I heard you're you're going to you're done after this. Listen, I said, Yeah. And he said, you know, do that.

PAIGE: Did that have anything to do with the decision of, you know, the investigation?

PAIGE: And I said, yeah.

PAIGE: You know, you.

PAIGE: Tell me.

PAIGE: Everybody says the Air Force has a zero tolerance policy. But you did nothing. You let it happen. So anyway, he just kind of looked at me and didn't say anything. I was just like, all right.

PAIGE: So.

PAIGE: Yeah, so it was just it was really, I think, disappointing because it constantly felt like every decision I made was was challenged by him. And, you know, throughout my career, I constantly felt like I had to prove myself more as a female. You know, like even our physical fitness standards, they were different, you know, And there are things where I was like it was constantly like, I need to do better so I can be taken seriously. And then to have that, it pushed me over the edge. You know, I was in this place where I was just like, I like trying to be this super perfectionist, just over achiever because I didn't know how to combat it any other way. And I was just like, I can't. I can't do this anymore.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah.

PAIGE: Thanks. Yeah.

ROWELL: So. Earlier in your period up Mountain Home, you had a temporary duty station. I think it would be Island.

PAIGE: Yes.

ROWELL: Would you like to talk a little bit about that experience.

PAIGE: That you had? Yeah.

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: So I don't even remember what year was.

PAIGE: But we had.

PAIGE: Kind of this partnership with the Navy. So there was the Naval Air Station would be Island Washington.

PAIGE: And we would.

PAIGE: Was kind of like this joint training program. So some of our pilots would go there. And so we had a commander there.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: They had a change command ceremony. And so because I had gone to advanced training and I was kind of one of the first folks, especially within our unit, doing the multimedia piece, they wanted to send me because they were like, Hey, if we're going to send you there to document this, like, why don't you also do a multimedia story on this unit? And so I.

PAIGE: Went and.

PAIGE: That was really cool to kind of see that other aspect in that that joint training piece and just kind of see how the Navy does business.

PAIGE: So that was a really cool.

PAIGE: Experience for sure. And I had some of the best fish ever had there.

ROWELL: That's great. Yeah. Can you tell me a little bit about the process of putting together something like that, of like planning and deciding on the components of a multimedia piece that you would do on something like a ceremony of that kind?

PAIGE: Yeah. So for us, it was more.

PAIGE: Not necessarily the ceremony, more of kind of the, the missions or the extra stuff. So I'm trying to think of like a really good example that I can give you.

PAIGE: I can use one that I did in my training. So for us, it was.

PAIGE: Really about like obviously telling a story. I think.

PAIGE: You know, a lot of folks.

PAIGE: Don't understand what goes on behind the the gates of a military base. Right. They don't realize that, A, we're humans just like anybody else, but that, you know, we operate like a little city. And so for us, it was being photojournalists. It was also like we were tasked with building those community relations because sometimes there were tensions, especially around bases that had fighter aircraft, because they make noise.

PAIGE: If you don't know.

PAIGE: And so or, you know, there would be decisions like I remember we were potentially going to have a unit from Saudi Arabia come train at our base. And like that was.

PAIGE: A huge thing because the town people were like, I don't know how I feel about that.

PAIGE: But so part of that was like to kind of give.

PAIGE: Folks.

PAIGE: A glimpse into what's happening on the base. And through that, we would, you know, look for things that were unique or that would lend themselves or just like opportunities to show that that human.

PAIGE: Side.

PAIGE: Of things. Like I remember I did a piece.

PAIGE: On.

PAIGE: Actually Sergeant Nipper from Korea. I was back in the D.C. area and she was there. She was actually.

PAIGE: She did the lighting for President Obama for.

PAIGE: His like, video broadcasts. Yeah.

PAIGE: There's a White House communications.

PAIGE: Office that has military folks.

PAIGE: And anyways.

PAIGE: So I was there and.

PAIGE: You know.

PAIGE: I wanted to do a piece on her and talk.

PAIGE: About the.

PAIGE: The complexities of being a military member and also being a parent. And so, you know, for me, it was, you know, I thought that was something that could really, you know, reach all different types of audiences. And so, you know, we would just kind of, you know, do a little interview to figure out like a little bit more about them. And then based off of that, you know, our goal was to be a fly on the wall and just follow them in the new normal life. The military is very in the photo journalism community is very strict with ethics.

PAIGE: You unless it's like an illustration or a.

PAIGE: Portrait in a studio, you're not setting stuff up. And so you're following.

PAIGE: Them and.

PAIGE: Staying out of it. And so you're just, you know, and so.

PAIGE: So it's cool.

PAIGE: Because that provides opportunities, you know, to just like go in and do stuff and follow stuff and.

PAIGE: You know.

PAIGE: Do video and photo and try to capture those moments and then do those interviews and really tie things together. You know, and so when they're talking about something, if you have a piece of imagery or video that reflects that, putting that together.

PAIGE: Or doing a sound.

PAIGE: Bite.

PAIGE: And so it was really cool.

ROWELL: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about. How you would work to make people feel comfortable or at ease while you were there documenting things like their close close quarters work or their home life or that kind of thing.

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, that was.

PAIGE: Difficult at times. It was tough. I mean, I remember there were a lot of times where, you know, we'd be out on the flight line or doing something and there'd be like something like, I don't want to be photographed. And it's like, Well.

PAIGE: Technically you're government.

PAIGE: Property. Like, I can photograph you, but, you know, I'd walk around and shoot the back of their head and not get them like fully in the frame or whatever.

PAIGE: But when we were doing this other work, it.

PAIGE: Really was like building a rapport. In fact, I remember I went to that Department of Defense Worldwide Military Photographer Workshop.

PAIGE: I think that's the name of it.

PAIGE: And so, you know, we went and part of that was there were like 30 of us, and you're there for a week and you have all these mentors. Some of them are military members. Some are from like the White House press corps or The Washington Post, Sports Illustrated. I mean, it was crazy.

PAIGE: It was so cool. That would have been I believe it was 2010.

PAIGE: Right before I went to Mountain Home. So I was still at Moody the year I went twice. And the second time I. I won.

PAIGE: And that year. So, like, you go and there's kind of like.

PAIGE: Some networking at the beginning, and then you're given a topic and you have, like, three days to go out and, like, research it, photograph it, and build a photo story, which is like 8 to 10 photos.

PAIGE: That.

PAIGE: You kind of presentation. We used to put them in layouts back in the day when we'd print everything, but.

PAIGE: And so.

PAIGE: I had this woman, her name was.

PAIGE: D her good, and she painted.

PAIGE: Screens with screens. I had learned about her.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: That was a huge thing because, you know, in the over there, they have the row houses. And so there's like no privacy. And back in the day they didn't have air conditioning.

PAIGE: And so they'd open their windows. And when they opened the.

PAIGE: Windows, they couldn't have their window coverings.

PAIGE: And so they would paint the screens. And so it'd be.

PAIGE: Like a pretty thing. And so it provided privacy. But then, you know, it was like this pretty picture in the window.

PAIGE: And so I went to photograph her, not she was she.

PAIGE: Was old when I photographed her at her house. And I remember I, I never met her before, cold call there and was like, hey.

PAIGE: I'm a military photographer.

PAIGE: I'm here for this training.

PAIGE: Would you be okay with me coming to your house? I remember it took a little bit of coaxing on that phone call. But then, you know, I went.

PAIGE: In that first day. I really spent a lot of time just hanging out and getting to know her and just tell her like, I'm just here. I'm just going to say it like.

PAIGE: Don't don't mind me.

PAIGE: And so I would do everything I could to, like, put myself in spots where I wasn't like super visible or in the way, you know, and not using Flash if I could, and just really like taking that time to just really be a.

PAIGE: Fly on the wall.

PAIGE: And just have conversations. And I remember those three days, you know, I really connected with her and I remember she shared a lot of.

PAIGE: Stories she even told me about, like her husband. And, you know, they're probably and they were like in their 70s. And she's like, yeah. He goes and he's got a girlfriend. But. And she would like, tell me that. I was just like, my gosh, I can't move and all that. And like, I remember she didn't have a.

PAIGE: Door on her bathroom and like.

PAIGE: I was just like, it was just like all these, like, crazy things. But it was so cool.

PAIGE: And I remember I ended up writing her letters. I sent her photos after the fact, and I kept in touch with her for like a year.

PAIGE: So.

PAIGE: Yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: Absolutely. And then there was another there was a training program at Mt. Hope for Singaporean pilots, this database. Did you come into contact with that program at all and maybe do some photographs?

PAIGE: Yeah. So we had kind of.

PAIGE: The training.

PAIGE: Program, and so those individuals.

PAIGE: Would come and I want to say they were on like a 1 or 2 year assignment, and it was really cool because they would do a lot of events.

PAIGE: To.

PAIGE: Try to.

PAIGE: I think, you know.

PAIGE: Teach us about their culture and.

PAIGE: We would teach them about our culture. But, you know, we would go and we would.

PAIGE: Photograph them doing trainings and preparing for.

PAIGE: Missions. So that was really cool.

PAIGE: And I think just a unique opportunity to kind of have that connection, because there were times throughout my career I remember at Moody Air Force Base, we had the Royal Air Force from. UK.

PAIGE: Com okay.

PAIGE: And they did like they were there for like a week and they did a training mission with us and I got to fly with them on a C-130 as they did jumps and stuff and.

PAIGE: You know, that was cool.

PAIGE: But that was just like a week where it was like these folks were integrated into our base. And so it was just really neat to kind of have that interaction and like, you know, learn about how they do things.

PAIGE: So that was pretty cool.

ROWELL: Yeah, absolutely. How did your job duties change now that you were in this NCO position in which you were in charge of other photographers?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: You know.

PAIGE: It was. It was difficult because I obviously.

PAIGE: I loved going out and taking photographs and doing that stuff. But as I moved into this more supervisory role, that obviously had to take a backseat a little bit.

PAIGE: Plus, as much as it.

PAIGE: Pained me, I wanted to give my airmen.

PAIGE: The cool.

PAIGE: The cool jobs, right? Because like when I was an airman, I know that that happened like something cool happened. Like Sergeant Allen was like, been there, have done that. It's time I hand that torch over and let them do it. And so, so that was hard.

PAIGE: But, you know, it was nice because.

PAIGE: I was able to kind of start doing some of these other things and kind of take some of my knowledge. And so, you know, I was I redid things like I redid our equipment. I redid our file structure, and then I read it, our training program. So as I mentioned back when I got to my first assignment, you have to do your kdka's and on the job training. And it's this whole thing. There's a lot of tasks. And I realized that we.

PAIGE: The way.

PAIGE: Our training was set up, like it didn't make sense. It didn't build upon each other and it it took too long. And so I reworked it to streamline it and I reduced it by like the timeline. I can't remember. It was quite some time. It was an EPR, but that was, you know, seen by my superiors and I was selected to go and be the Air Force's sole subject matter expert to redo our advanced training, one of our courses, which was really cool to have that opportunity to go in and help, you know, think about how that course is going to be laid out and pave the way for our next group of folks coming through.

PAIGE: So that was really cool.

PAIGE: And I also was able to kind of start getting my feet wet in that community and media relations piece, which is, you.

PAIGE: Know, a lot of more. So what I do today.

PAIGE: In in my civilian life. And so.

PAIGE: It was neat.

PAIGE: To be able to to get that challenge again, because I do I really enjoy challenges and learning. And so to kind of have that opportunity was really cool.

ROWELL: You also got to work with Photograph the Candy bomber, Gil Halverson. Yes. Can you tell me about that experience?

PAIGE: Yeah. So I don't even remember how this came about.

PAIGE: But we so I came across Ketchum where Ketchum.

PAIGE: Valley, but basically here, Sun Valley, Idaho.

PAIGE: It's kind of the mountains.

PAIGE: And then there's the valley. And the candy bomber was coming, Gil Halverson. And he was coming to do a talk at a local library there. They do like this like speaker series.

PAIGE: Which is it's.

PAIGE: A pretty big place. Like they've had like.

PAIGE: Truly.

PAIGE: The artist. I think he's from there or he has a house there. Like it's a pretty crazy community. A lot of celebrities that live around there.

PAIGE: And so he was coming to do this talk and as part of that.

PAIGE: They were going to have him fly and basically do candy on parachutes like he did during.

PAIGE: When he was the candy bar during the Berlin airlift. And so he.

PAIGE: I remember we got we flew out of this like a little private airport and it was this old Navy.

PAIGE: Prop plane.

PAIGE: And I was like, boy.

PAIGE: First and foremost. But at that time, I mean, I don't know. He was he had.

PAIGE: To have been in his 80s, I would say. And he still had his pilot's license, which was crazy. He did not fly that day, but it was him and his wife. And then I was on there.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: I think we had like maybe a crew person.

PAIGE: And we went up and we.

PAIGE: Flew over the valley.

PAIGE: And he had the candy and the parachutes and he threw him out of the plane. And I got to document that, which is really cool because it's like.

PAIGE: Recreating history, right? And so it was cool. I remember was a really bumpy flight, though, and I was sweating profusely, but I was like, This is awesome. Like, again, like I never would have thought I'd be able to do this. And so.

PAIGE: After we flew.

PAIGE: We came down and then we went and he, he talked about his time and his history and his career. And it was just really cool to like, hear that firsthand because it's like as your, you know, in the going up the ranks in the military, you know, at basic training and as you're testing for your your next rank like you're reading about the history and all these things and you know, all these people and it's like. Wow. Like he was like in this book. And now I'm like, here meeting him. So it was really cool. I actually.

PAIGE: Have I still have the parachute.

PAIGE: Because I. I got a parachute with a Hershey bar on it. I had the Hershey bar for.

PAIGE: Quite some time. I finally took that off. I was like, I don't know, this is going to work, but I still have a parachute and signed by him.

PAIGE: And he signed a book for me as well. So it's very cool. Actually, he passed away in 2022, so it was definitely, I think, Yeah, crazy.

ROWELL: So if you care to talk about it, you mentioned earlier that you, you know, while you were in service, also experienced some anxiety just kind of as a baseline in your life. Did you how did you deal with that when you were on kind of these interesting field experiences with a lot of different variables? And did you ever receive any sort of support within the Air Force for related to that?

PAIGE: Yeah. So, you know, I really. Sometime in my own home.

PAIGE: Probably within a year or so of getting there. And I think a lot of it not all of it stemmed from everything I was going through there with my boss and some of that stuff, and I was really dealing with anxiety and depression and also some health issues that I later learned about once I got out.

PAIGE: And so, you know.

PAIGE: I will say it.

PAIGE: Was difficult at that time.

PAIGE: And I don't know if it's changed. Seeking mental health help was like a big red X on your records. Nobody wanted that. It disqualified you from, you know, certain job opportunities. It was so it was kind of a thing that folks didn't really want to reach out for. And so there were like weird ways where people would, like, try to get help, Like they would go, like, attend a class but not actually like go to a mental health appointment. It's crazy. But I remember I went I think my my first touch was like as I was navigating the stuff with my boss. Like I was I was angry. I was really angry. And I was starting to have anger issues. And so I went and I took like an anger management course. And then as I kind of like started to navigate things and I started having these health issues, I remember my provider was like, I'm going to put you on like Prozac or something. And, you know, that was kind of my my first step, you know, really kind of looking at my mental health and taking care of it. I didn't really do any like.

PAIGE: Talk therapy, which probably would have been good.

ROWELL: But. And so I was like, You're in service still?

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah. You know, so I was doing that, obviously, like with a lot of, like, these crazy experiences and like, I'm just it's like you don't really feel like you can say no.

PAIGE: Right? I mean.

PAIGE: Whose job is shut up and color. But that that was that was it. You you just you're told to do it. You do it that it really wasn't questioning anything.

ROWELL: Yeah. That structure.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: So if you care to you to talk about this, you started your family while you were at Mountain Home. And so you were there pregnant while you were there. Was that. Was that during period while you were in service? Yeah. Okay. How what was that experience like for you? Did you?

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: So you support did you not receive support? What was that like?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: Being pregnant in the military was definitely interesting. And being a mom in the military I think was even more interesting.

PAIGE: You know?

PAIGE: Being pregnant, you know, you were still expected to fulfill your duties. So, I mean.

PAIGE: You were going to PTA every day and.

PAIGE: You know, you were.

PAIGE: Working here ten, 12 hour days and unless you had a doctor's.

PAIGE: Note telling you otherwise, like you were there. And I know that that was challenging at times. I fortunately at the start of my pregnancy had a really smooth pregnancy at the start. You know, I didn't have morning sickness or anything like that, so like, I was in a good space. But later in my pregnancy, I ran into complications. And that was that was stressful and challenging because I remember it was just like I was still expected to like, be there and beyond and just, you know, and I was just like, this is a lot. So that was definitely challenging. Although I will say we were one of the I one of the, I think the last stateside basis to have actual labor and delivery ward on base. And so.

PAIGE: You know, I.

PAIGE: Did receive my care at the the military hospital. So that was also interesting.

PAIGE: You know, it's a little bit different experience.

PAIGE: I was the first person in my like friends group from back here in Wisconsin to be pregnant. So, like, I didn't really know what to expect anyways. But now.

PAIGE: Like, when I talk about my experience, they're like, you have.

PAIGE: Like, that's, you know.

PAIGE: It's none of the, like the.

PAIGE: The glamor and.

PAIGE: Perks. It's very like, here's your basic items.

ROWELL: But do you do you want to say a little more about that maybe what that kind of consisted of?

PAIGE: Yeah. I mean.

PAIGE: I remember when I first found out I was pregnant, I had to go and get a test done because obviously you needed to get it documented pretty quickly just because, like, you never know, like you could be called up the next day to, you know, deploy or go somewhere. And it's like.

PAIGE: Well, that can be problematic. Which was tough because obviously, as you know. And any woman.

PAIGE: Knows like that first trimester is really, you know, like anything can happen. And so, like, having to, like, make sure you got that test done and then like, that also got reported to, like, your leadership. So it's like if they don't, I mean, they should be like not saying anything. But, you know, it's just like a weird space.

PAIGE: Remember that?

PAIGE: So then, you know, you obviously get your your paperwork and then, you know, it was pretty basic. Like I had like.

PAIGE: One ultrasound, you know.

PAIGE: And that was pretty much like the gender.

PAIGE: Reveal. And it was like.

PAIGE: If the baby's in the right position, you get it. If they're not, then you're not going to know.

PAIGE: And so that was definitely interesting. The uniforms.

PAIGE: Were terrible. They were not flattering.

PAIGE: Are so bad. I hope.

PAIGE: They've improved.

ROWELL: What was so bad about them?

PAIGE: They just like the the blues in particular.

PAIGE: Like your service. Like it was just like this big old, like, drapey sheet thing. Like you literally just looked like a whale. They were just.

PAIGE: Not.

PAIGE: Not flattering and obviously not super comfortable.

PAIGE: Like, you know, usually you're praying, you kind of want some, like, nice stretchy.

PAIGE: Material, not like crusty, fat, old dress uniforms and like, yeah, starched shirts is just not not the best.

PAIGE: But yeah, so that was interesting.

PAIGE: But yeah, it was.

PAIGE: You know, my.

PAIGE: Experience was obviously different because then, you know, I'd gone in, I was having some issues with one of my hands. I was like having this numbness and tingling. And I went in and they were like going to fit me for this arm brace because there was pressure while there. They took my blood pressure and they were like, Push pretty high. You might want to go upstairs to like the family unit.

PAIGE: And I was like, okay, yeah.

PAIGE: You know. And so I went up and they were like, Yeah, you're not leaving.

PAIGE: And so at that.

PAIGE: Time I was like 30 or 32 weeks pregnant and I had super high blood pressure.

PAIGE: And ended.

PAIGE: Up having to get put on a magnesium drip. And then they gave me stirrups, steroid shots.

PAIGE: In my thighs.

PAIGE: Because they were like concerned, you know, that I may have to deliver because they were just like, not sure. But so I had to stay at the hospital for like a little over 24 hours and they were able to stabilize me. But then while I was there, they obviously had to do an ultrasound just to make sure that that the baby was good. And I learned.

PAIGE: She was breech.

PAIGE: So that really then changed things for me. And then I was like having to go multiple times a week to be tested because then I was high risk. So it became a very weird thing. But through all that.

PAIGE: I was still working every day and.

ROWELL: Same hours, everything like that. Petty things changed a bit, I imagine, over time.

PAIGE: Yeah, yeah. There were certain things, you know, that we couldn't do at a certain point, but. Yeah.

ROWELL: And so when was your daughter born?

PAIGE: Yeah. So she was born September 4th, 2012.

PAIGE: She was. She was a planned C-section, so she knew we knew when she was coming.

PAIGE: Because they took her a little bit early just because of my health issues.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Because she was breached. So they tried to manually rotate her and that did not work. And it was a terrible experience. I would not recommend. But yeah, it was really weird. So it was like, you know, we just knew we were going in and we were going to have this baby.

PAIGE: And that was really, really weird. Yeah, but yeah.

ROWELL: And how much time did you get in terms of like paternity? I mean, paternal leave, Maternity leave?

PAIGE: Six weeks.

ROWELL: Six weeks? Okay. Pretty short turnaround.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. And how was that handled in your office?

PAIGE: I think.

PAIGE: Pretty well. I think it was harder for my husband, to be honest. I mean, he only got a couple of days. I can't remember how long it was. It wasn't very much time. And I remember he had to, like, strategically plan it, but.

PAIGE: It.

PAIGE: Was handled pretty well. I remember it was weird when I got back because I was nursing.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: At that time that was still like weird territory in the military.

ROWELL: Yeah, less or less access to like a mother's room and things like that, correct? Yeah.

PAIGE: Okay. Yeah.

ROWELL: So you had did you have to then advocate for yourself in that situation?

PAIGE: Yeah. I mean, I want to.

PAIGE: Say, like right around the time that I was pregnant, I want to say the shift happened where at that point they had released guidance that they had to provide a space that wasn't the restroom. So that was a step up because really, like, do you want to eat your lunch in a bathroom? No. Neither should my child have to drink milk from the bathroom.

PAIGE: But so I.

PAIGE: Remember like we had to try to work something out and they ended up giving me our equipment closet, which was right across from our photo studio where people waited in the hallway. And so it was very awkward, especially at that time because like, breast pumps are far more advanced.

PAIGE: You know, slightly loud. And so it was just like really weird.

PAIGE: And I, you know, it was like I had to put.

PAIGE: A sign on the door and it was just like, you know, and it just became weird and like.

PAIGE: I had to get my own fridge because then I was like, doesn't was just thing, you know, because it's.

PAIGE: Primarily males in.

PAIGE: My unit. And I remember like, I got a call one time when I was in there and one of the airmen was like, she's in the closet lactating. She'll call you back.

PAIGE: That was what he said. And I was just like, okay, we're going to need some training on that.

PAIGE: And you just told them I was busy and I would call them back.

PAIGE: Yeah. So.

ROWELL: So you talked to them? Yeah. You had to talk to them well. But yeah. So that was your experience. Was it still utilized as a closet, like as an equipment closet when you weren't? Okay. So dual use.

PAIGE: Dual, you're still here, so we'll use.

ROWELL: Two now.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: All right.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: And so and so you and your husband were treated a bit differently in terms of maybe resources or time related to your status as new parents.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yes, for sure.

PAIGE: So I had.

PAIGE: That six week, you know, maternity leave.

PAIGE: And then the paternity leave.

PAIGE: I want to say it was 5 to 7 days. Like I really it wasn't that much time. Maybe two weeks, maybe. And so, you know, you kind of had to figure out when when to kind of use that. Like, was he going to use it in a chunk or was he going to use a couple of days here and there? So that was really challenging because I just remember like coming home and obviously you don't have your family near you. Right. Like a lot of people live near their family.

PAIGE: And so I didn't have that. And so it was like, okay, mom, he was there for a little bit. And then it was just like, All right, here I am by myself. Where most of my friends were.

PAIGE: Military members because I was military. So I wasn't.

PAIGE: Necessarily hanging out with the spouses. And so I didn't.

PAIGE: Have that network of people who were home during the day to, like.

PAIGE: Hang out with. So that was.

PAIGE: That was an interesting time.

ROWELL: Yeah. Sure. And also recovering from major surgery. Yeah, Same time.

PAIGE: Yep.

ROWELL: And a tiny newborn. Yes. It's a lot to deal with. Yes. Yeah. And so I wasn't sure of the timeline on this. So your husband's second deployment? Was that during at all during your pregnancy, or was that when your daughter was still really, really young?

PAIGE: When my daughter is still really, really young. So I had Madison September and then I got out of the military. So that was September 2012. And then I got out of the military in February of 2013.

PAIGE: And my husband deployed shortly after.

PAIGE: Well, actually, he was.

PAIGE: Supposed to.

PAIGE: Deploy for his third deployment right as I was getting out. And so we were, like, trying to navigate this new thing of living on a single income. I was going to stay home, take care of our child, And we were like, well, we had to get out of the home we were living in because we could no longer afford it, because obviously we.

PAIGE: Were dual military dual income. Now we're not. And so we were like, you know what? You're going to be deploying. I'm going to go back home.

PAIGE: And live with my parents for this deployment. So I have that support. And so we packed everything up, put it in storage. My sister came out.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: There I was with pretty much six.

PAIGE: Seven month old.

PAIGE: Driving from Idaho to Wisconsin.

PAIGE: And so this deployment ended up getting delayed a couple months. So that was a bummer. But so he was there living with a friend. Wow. Okay. Anyways. Yeah. So I stayed with my parents for.

PAIGE: About 5 or 6 months.

PAIGE: And then my mom came with me.

PAIGE: Drove back, helped me find a place. And then. But I remember she left. She was there for a couple of days after she drove with me, and.

PAIGE: Timo came to deliver our stuff when I was there myself. So I had to get really creative having, you know, at that time, I think Madison was like ten, ten, 11 months old. And so, you know, I was sitting there moving in by myself and making it work.

ROWELL: But yeah, there's actually a home going picture of you and I think your daughter, right, She is really small.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: So I wasn't sure how those things lined up.

PAIGE: But yeah, yeah.

ROWELL: And so what was your rank when you separated from the Air.

PAIGE: Force or the staff sergeant? Okay.

ROWELL: All right. And so do you want to talk a bit about how that transition went for you personally, moving from, you know, full time, active, active air force to your civilian life and being back in Mountain Home as a civilian?

PAIGE: Yeah.

PAIGE: It was definitely challenging.

PAIGE: I think when I first got out.

PAIGE: You know, I was obviously home with my parents and that really helped.

PAIGE: You know.

PAIGE: I had that support and.

PAIGE: I.

PAIGE: Was starting to go to school for my master's degree online. And so I had that to focus on. And, you know, I'd be in touch with like my military friends back in Idaho. But otherwise it was nice to, like, be back here and connecting with my girlfriends from high school. But when I made the move back to Idaho.

PAIGE: Especially those first few months.

PAIGE: Back because Josh was still deployed.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: So I was there by myself with Madison, and that was really, really hard because all my friends were still in. And so they're working their jobs. You know, they're there doing their shifts. And it was like I was.

PAIGE: Home by myself, like nothing to do wasn't.

PAIGE: Really connected to any groups.

PAIGE: And I just didn't really feel a connection with.

PAIGE: The spouses.

PAIGE: Because, you know, they.

PAIGE: They led very different lives and didn't have the experience that I.

PAIGE: Had. And there was kind of a.

PAIGE: Stigma and a stereotype, unfortunately, with military spouses, too. And so like, that played into it too. I didn't really want to be, you know, like, yeah. And so I had a really hard.

PAIGE: Time.

PAIGE: Figuring out who I was and also just not working. Being a stay at home parent was tough, and I learned.

PAIGE: Quickly.

PAIGE: That it wasn't for me. I needed something beyond that. Like, yes, I am proud to be a mom, but that's only one piece of me. And so when Josh got back, I was just kind of like, I need to do something else. And so.

PAIGE: Luckily.

PAIGE: I was able to do a civilian job on base that kind of like brought me back to that military life a little bit, just in a different way, obviously.

PAIGE: But it was.

PAIGE: Nice.

PAIGE: To kind.

PAIGE: Of have that connection.

PAIGE: Again.

PAIGE: And you know, I enjoyed.

PAIGE: That.

PAIGE: But it definitely got better as.

PAIGE: Time went on.

PAIGE: But then obviously my husband got out and then we made the transition to full civilian life having no connection to a base. And that was again, another interesting time.

ROWELL: Yeah. What was it like working as a civilian and what was your position as a civilian on the base?

PAIGE: Yeah, so.

PAIGE: I worked in the marketing office, so there's the force support squadron. At least that's what it was called at the time. And they were over like the activities on base.

PAIGE: So like the bowling alley, the gym.

PAIGE: You know, the.

PAIGE: The golf course, the.

PAIGE: NCO clubs, like all those, those things. And so.

PAIGE: We.

PAIGE: Had a very small office that would design the posters for like the events. So like the turkey trot or, you know, like.

PAIGE: All these things. And then we also.

PAIGE: Handled the sponsorship. And so we would work, you know, like Red Bull bodybuilding like or some of the sponsors. And so I actually bounced around in that office because I started doing like I was, ah, in a part time role for private organization. So on base there's quite a few private orgs that operate and do like community service. And so there's like the senior NCO. Focus. Five six. So that was first staff sergeant and tech sergeant. So it was like this professional private org that would host events and do professional development. And so I was the coordinator and I had to like make sure folks, you know, filled out their 5O1C paperwork and I would help them and establish bylaws and all this. And then I moved to the full time position and kind of started doing the sponsorship when one of our office members left.

PAIGE: But then I also had the graphic design and photo skills, so I'd fill.

PAIGE: In here and there, but it was really cool. It was it was a, a really neat office. And I, I liked that. I still worked with a lot of military professionals because, you know, I could still kind of have that relationship and I could relate on.

PAIGE: A lot of levels.

PAIGE: But I'm also really thankful I had a great boss room. Shelley And she's she's still there. And, you know, she was just great because I think she really provided a really great transition and she was flexible and just, you know, it was like at that time I was struggling with some weight issues and whatever, and I was really trying to prioritize my health. And it was like she knew that in the military, I have that time for physical fitness. And so she allowed me to start a little bit later so I can still get that in. And so it was just really great. Yeah.

ROWELL: So now I yeah, yeah. So did you, you mentioned pursuing coverage from the VA for service connected disability, which I talk a little bit about how that process went for you.

PAIGE: Yeah. So when I was getting out.

PAIGE: I had to go through Taps, which.

PAIGE: I can't, I can't remember what transition Assistance program I think is what it stands for.

PAIGE: And it was like, I want to say like a week long or a couple of days long, and they had all these folks come in and kind of talk to us about obviously transitioning to civilian life and like learning how to do a resumé and what health insurance is and how that works and all this stuff. And I remember one of the individuals who came.

PAIGE: And spoke to us.

PAIGE: You know, talked about getting an exam when you exited service. And, you know, there are kind of different things and ways to do that and that there were resources available. And and so I was like, okay, you know, like.

PAIGE: Sounds good. He just really like sold like.

PAIGE: This is a benefit for you.

PAIGE: You know, you have given.

PAIGE: Your time and, you know, you know, things that happened like you should be here.

PAIGE: Taken care of. Yeah. And I was like, okay. And so being.

PAIGE: The detailed, structured person I was, I remember I went down and, you know, followed his instructions and went to the American Legion or whatever it was in town and.

PAIGE: You know, and just said like, hey, like here's the things I had issues with.

PAIGE: And, you know, I was one of those people who went to the doctor. My husband was not one of those people.

PAIGE: And some of that was because he works swing shift. And so for me.

PAIGE: You know, I was in a strong place. I had the records to say like, this happened during my time and this is what has occurred because of that. And so so remember, I made all my sheets and we worked together and.

PAIGE: Submitted the package in.

PAIGE: And at that time they were really struggling. I know like there was quite I know that there has been backlogs, but there was, you know, there were people who were saying like, it'll be years before you're seen. I was pleasantly surprised. I remember put mine in and I feel like within six months I got a call and.

PAIGE: They said, Hey, we're news. You come up to the.

PAIGE: Boise VA like we're going.

PAIGE: To.

PAIGE: You know, have you do these appointments. And so I remember it was a lot, you know, I had to do everything hearing mental health X-rays. I mean, there was there was so much stuff. And part of that was because I did have a lot of issues kind of in different areas. But that was my first time attending a VA. And I, you know, I've recently shared this story when I was talking at an event at UW Parkside, because I remember I went in and I was sitting in the waiting room.

PAIGE: And somebody came up to me and they said, you know, there's activities for caregivers down the hall. And I just looked at them and I was like, What? I was like, I.

PAIGE: Didn't like, didn't.

PAIGE: Put two and two together. And I just smiled and said, okay, thanks.

PAIGE: And it was like at that point that I realized like that women were just it wasn't like a a thing. Like most people thought, if you're a woman at the VA, it's because you're a daughter, you're a wife, you're a caretaker, you're not the veteran. And for me, that was kind of like, you know, I did my exams or whatever, and then I kind of just, like, stayed away and and that was it. And it never really felt like a place that I.

PAIGE: Was inclusive.

ROWELL: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Yeah. Moving into a little bit more about your career. Full service. Closing in here on that. So what educational opportunities did you end up pursuing after you left the Air Force?

PAIGE: Yeah. So when? So while I was in.

PAIGE: Thanks to good mentors, I got my community college at the Air Force Associates degree, which was really great because that kind of set a foundation, which I was shocked. I did that because I was not a super school person. And then I remember as I was getting ready to get out, my husband at that point, we didn't like know if he was going to.

PAIGE: Continue to stay in like beyond his current enlistment.

PAIGE: Like it was kind of up in the air. And so I was in a spot where I was like, Wow.

PAIGE: Like, newspapers are really hot and people.

PAIGE: Like it was just as far as like photography journal. I was just like, I don't think they're like, I don't think it's a lucrative field. I probably shouldn't do that.

PAIGE: So I decided to get my bachelor's.

PAIGE: In human Resources management. And so I was doing an online program.

PAIGE: Through.

PAIGE: University.

PAIGE: That.

PAIGE: Was pretty much online and. All right. Looking back, I know there's been issues not, you know, they really preyed upon military individuals because they offered basically if you had your associates community college or the Air Force degree, like they would utilize that where a lot of universities were like, no, like those classes don't count.

PAIGE: And so you'd.

PAIGE: Have to, you know, start even further in your career. And so it was just like, okay, well, here's this university that's going to accept that and I don't have to do more, so let's go.

PAIGE: And so I did that. It was so so it was it wasn't the greatest experience, but I got my degree and I got it with honors. So there's that. But I was still kind of doing that as I was.

PAIGE: Right around when Josh was getting out, I was pretty close to wrapping up my degree. I was a couple months from graduating.

PAIGE: And so I remember we were.

PAIGE: Moving back here and I was applying to I was trying to get federal jobs. And that was just so hard. And I connected with a one of the veteran service officers at, you know, my family lived in Racine County at the time. And so it was in Racine County. His name was Josh. And, you know, he kind of helped me and I was like, you know, like I'm interested in the state position.

PAIGE: And he was like, well, you know, they have a.

PAIGE: Hiring preference for veterans if you have a service connected.

PAIGE: Disability. And I was like, great.

PAIGE: And so I.

PAIGE: Applied and.

PAIGE: You know, basically that got my foot in the door for an.

PAIGE: Interview.

PAIGE: Which was great because, you know, I think that's all it took. And, you know, interviewed with the Department Transportation and they really, really liked what I brought to the table and, you know, started working there. And that was great. And I kind of was.

PAIGE: Just focusing on work.

PAIGE: For quite.

PAIGE: Some time. And then in.

PAIGE: 2017, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer.

PAIGE: And went through treatment for that.

PAIGE: And that kind of caused me to get like this wild hair. And I was just like, I need to go do stuff, you know, I need to make these goals. And so I was like, I'm going back to school to get my master's. And so I was like, gung ho. And I was going to do that. And then I realized I needed to wait a little bit on that.

PAIGE: And so I took a step back. And then.

PAIGE: In.

PAIGE: 2019.

PAIGE: In the fall of 2019, I started a masters program. In your view? Parkside It was all online.

PAIGE: My mom works there, so I was she she's the one who recommended it.

PAIGE: And yeah, so I did that and I completed my master's degree in I graduated in the spring of 2021. So that was an interesting transition and we were.

PAIGE: All online classes.

PAIGE: Anyways. But with the pandemic, it still caused a lot of a lot of issues. And in fact I didn't get to have a true graduation.

PAIGE: But I still got the.

ROWELL: Diploma. Yeah. Congratulations.

PAIGE: Yeah, thanks.

ROWELL: And then could you did you want to talk a bit about that sort of challenging period you you referenced earlier when both you and Josh were out of service, Out of the Air Force now?

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, when we.

PAIGE: We got.

PAIGE: Out and.

PAIGE: We moved back here and we moved in with my parents for a little bit while. We were kind of like both trying to find a job and get an apartment and whatever. And.

PAIGE: You know, it was it was challenging because. A We were.

PAIGE: Away from everything we.

PAIGE: Knew.

PAIGE: You know, like I had spent eight years. He had spent ten years. And we were so used to that structure and the way things worked. And then it was just like gone.

PAIGE: And it was also just us.

PAIGE: Like learning to be together again, you know, He was, you know, we dealt with deployments. He was on Swing Shift now he was home, you know, And when we first moved back, he kind of took a job. And, you know, I think some of it was he obviously wanted to provide for the family and it may have not have been the right fit. But I had concerns because there was some travel and it ended up being, you know, like he was gone a lot. And I had a lot of resentment because I was like, the reason we you got out was so we could be together. And it feels like you're not here. And so that that caused a lot of stress. And you know, for me, you know, in the military it was work hard, party hard. And so that that partying was the coping mechanism. And so I you know, I found myself in not a great spot, you know, and just taking using that as.

PAIGE: As as.

PAIGE: Coping. And eventually, you know, I realized that wasn't that wasn't a good good place to be. And luckily, you know.

PAIGE: We had our issues and and we I'm thankful that we didn't give up on each other. You know, we went to counseling and worked through and stuff. There's still stuff we have to work through. And I think that's just marriage. Marriage is hard.

PAIGE: But, you know.

PAIGE: I'm glad that that.

PAIGE: We made it through.

PAIGE: And. Yeah.

ROWELL: Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, Yeah. Can you say a little bit about any, some of maybe the expectations you've run into personally as a female vet?

PAIGE: Yeah. I mean, it's really interesting because.

PAIGE: Like I, I.

PAIGE: Feel like.

PAIGE: I've had a hard time. Putting myself in that bucket, even saying like, I am a veteran. And I think there's part of it is right, like what I referenced earlier, that I wanted to do that combat and I never got that true combat. So part of me feels like, Am I really a veteran? Like, did I? Which I know is like a silly thing, like saying it out loud. But I think there's.

PAIGE: Those of us who.

PAIGE: Have and have that do feel like, you know what, what did we do? You know, there are so many, so many other people who sacrificed so much more.

PAIGE: So I think that some of it, but.

PAIGE: Also like it does feel invisible. And it's like now it's like I get why.

PAIGE: They do the I Am Invisible campaign because it's like that moment I was at the Boise VA where.

PAIGE: They just don't they don't put two and two together. And it's still now, you know, any time I'm with my husband and we talk about like, we met in the military, always to my husband, thank you for your service. Never to me.

PAIGE: I even recently felt that we had a.

PAIGE: Veteran's Day ceremony.

PAIGE: At.

PAIGE: My daughter's elementary school. And they did like an event.

PAIGE: And then they.

PAIGE: Did like a parade.

PAIGE: Through the halls. And, you know, we were walking in the.

PAIGE: Parade and I, you know.

PAIGE: I'm surrounded by minimal things. And it was like they would say thank you to the person in front of me. And then it was like, thank you to the person behind me. And I was just like, is it like. And it just felt weird. And maybe I was reading too far into it.

PAIGE: I don't know. But I think like that's that's what's difficult is, you know, there's a lot of folks who just don't think about it.

PAIGE: And I also think it's.

PAIGE: Just challenging because we've had to be in a place where, you know, when I was in it was, you know, your hair was always pulled back. You couldn't wear bright colored nail polish or lipstick and jewelry, you know, like there were all these things.

PAIGE: And we basically.

PAIGE: Got down to the most masculine version of ourselves.

PAIGE: And even.

PAIGE: In just the way we acted to.

PAIGE: Write.

PAIGE: To kind of fit in.

PAIGE: And now you go out.

PAIGE: On the civilian world and a masculine acting female doesn't sit well a lot of times, right? Like women are supposed to be softer. And and so it's like, you know, I can go in and and say something and then it's like, you know, people look at me like, that was rude or that wasn't right. And it's like, okay.

PAIGE: So, you know, it's like I'm having to relearn again, like, how do I act? So, yeah.

ROWELL: Full readjustment. Yeah. Always.

PAIGE: Yeah, Yeah.

ROWELL: Thank you for sharing them. Yeah. Yeah. Have you been able to connect with other veterans in maybe your, the community you live in and either, like, right after you left or more presently?

PAIGE: Yeah. You know, I will say.

PAIGE: Not as much as I would like to.

PAIGE: I have been slowly dipping my toes.

PAIGE: And trying to get there. And I think a big piece of that was, you know, I, I started following the Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs like social media things.

PAIGE: And then.

PAIGE: Quickly realized that there's.

PAIGE: All sorts of.

PAIGE: Groups that I just wasn't aware of.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Especially women's groups. And I think for me, I feel like I'm at a place now where I'm ready.

PAIGE: To take that step and to make that connection.

PAIGE: I know for me, seeing that first exhibit when it was unveiled, I think that was 2019. I was at the ceremony at the Capitol.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: That was like my first moment of I am ready to identify as a female veteran like I am. I am ready to come out and say like I am a veteran.

PAIGE: Because before that wasn't it wasn't something that I really like divulged.

PAIGE: And so it's been really great now to kind of like be in that place. And to like move forward.

PAIGE: And so while I haven't been great and getting connected in groups, which I that's on my my list of things to do.

PAIGE: I am working to build that at my workplace because I feel that it's something I didn't have. And so I'm working right now to build an affinity group.

PAIGE: Because we have about.

PAIGE: 25 to 30 veterans at my agency.

PAIGE: And I've been doing things.

PAIGE: Here and there, and I really want to have a place where I can have that connection again, because every time I like, interact with a veteran at work, it's like so great.

PAIGE: Like we can tell the service jokes and, you know, we.

PAIGE: We just really on a different level. And so I'm really excited to kind.

PAIGE: Of.

PAIGE: To do that and have that space and build those connections again, because I do miss it, you know, like.

PAIGE: It's equally challenging and.

PAIGE: Equally rewarding. You know, there's parts of it that I would love to just bury, but there's so many parts of it that I miss so much. I miss the people. You know, I miss just the camaraderie for you.

ROWELL: Why would you what would you say is most important about connecting with other female vets specifically for you right now?

PAIGE: You know, I think for me, it's tough to work through.

PAIGE: I think those inner thoughts and validation of things that happened, you know, because I think it is we're in this time where it's like for so long, you know, I think we just pushed it off or we weren't willing to talk about it. And now I feel like we're finally in a space where, like, it's okay to talk about it and we're building a safe space to do it.

PAIGE: Because I do know, like there's there's a lot of things that have.

PAIGE: Happened in my career, things that have been said to me, things that have been done to me.

PAIGE: That. You know, maybe one other person knows.

PAIGE: About, you know, like airman who I was close with at that.

PAIGE: Time. You know, but there's definitely things that have that have happened that my spouse.

PAIGE: Doesn't even know about, my family doesn't know.

PAIGE: About. And.

PAIGE: You know, I think that.

PAIGE: Sometimes, you.

PAIGE: Know, for me, I feel like that's a space where I can be open and I can talk about.

PAIGE: That and and hopefully get to.

PAIGE: A place where I feel comfortable sharing that story elsewhere.

PAIGE: So.

ROWELL: Absolutely.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: And then, I guess, what advice might you give to another veteran who may be also still working through some of the disparate treatment that they received while they were in service?

PAIGE: Yeah. That your story matters, I think, is the biggest one.

PAIGE: That chances are whatever you are feeling or experiencing, it really did happen. You're not just thinking it did or, you know, it was, I think, happening to a lot of us. And we were all just in a place where.

PAIGE: We just kind of let things slide and.

PAIGE: You know, went with the culture.

PAIGE: But I think the other piece, too, is, you know, if you need help.

PAIGE: There's help out there. And I know making that like a step to get it is the hardest. I say that from experience.

PAIGE: You know, I'm I've been.

PAIGE: On treatment for anxiety and depression and you know, I'm doing medicine and I know that I need to go and talk to someone. That is how I'm going to get better. But I'm still not to that point where I feel comfortable enough to do that.

PAIGE: And I know it's going to take time and some day I will get there. But. Yeah.

ROWELL: So based on your own experience, kind of related to that, in what areas do you feel veterans and especially younger veterans maybe are they still need support most? What ways do you think that they could be served better?

PAIGE: You know, I think.

PAIGE: Wow, that's really tough.

PAIGE: You know, I think for for me.

PAIGE: I look at it as. Having a place that feels comfortable. I think for me, even though like the first barrier island is just the VA in general, and I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but like I am not a fan of hospitals.

PAIGE: The VA is the most hospital hospital looking thing you could ever go to. It's very government like, you know, like for.

PAIGE: Me, I would love to see more thought put.

PAIGE: Into.

PAIGE: The types of spaces that, you know, the services are provided in. And I know like barriers with budgets and funding and whatever, you know. But I look at as we look at like the private medical industry, you know, all these places are really putting a focus on, you know, what those places and spaces look.

PAIGE: Like.

PAIGE: And how to make them feel a little bit more welcoming. And I know for me, like especially like in the women's area, that would be fantastic. You know, like the women's clinic in the Milwaukee VA, it's like right smack dab off of, you know, the main walkway. And it's just.

PAIGE: Like you just kind of feel like you're like like, like.

PAIGE: So, you know, I would like to see, I think.

PAIGE: Some more thought.

PAIGE: Around that and how we, you know, restructure kind of that care. I also feel like I would like to see more whole health with which I know they're really leaning into right now. I get information about that. My only struggle is a lot of it's during the day and that's really hard to to carve out that time as a as a professional. And, you know, I would love to see more of that offered in, you know, maybe some other time slots where it would be, you know, available to somebody who who works, you know, typical business hours.

PAIGE: So and I think just.

PAIGE: Having from a women's perspective, having more women in roles, you know, that are higher up. I will say I was really excited when Secretary Koehler.

PAIGE: Was over the Department of Veterans Affairs here in Wisconsin, and that was.

PAIGE: A really exciting.

PAIGE: Time to see someone who looked like me in that space and who.

PAIGE: Knew the challenges.

PAIGE: That we went through. And so I'm sad she left. I know I'm sure she's enjoying retirement, but that was a really big moment.

ROWELL: Yeah, absolutely.

PAIGE: Yeah.

ROWELL: So kind of as we're winding down here and coming coming to a close, nearing it. Right. It's a big question, but reflecting on your service in the Air Force as you are presently. What does that mean for you when you think about it? Man. It's a big one.

PAIGE: That is a big one. I mean, I don't even know how to answer the half.

ROWELL: We can also move to another one. What does it mean to me? You know what? What about it? Do you feel that you you hold the most. You know, most prominently in your heart or in your mind? Kind of when you think about that time in your life and what you did?

PAIGE: Yeah. I mean, for me.

PAIGE: I really think. It boils down.

PAIGE: To. The the.

PAIGE: Fulfillment. You know, I don't think there is anything that will ever be as fulfilling as being in the military, you know, being at that level.

PAIGE: You know, now I'm.

PAIGE: A state employee and I still.

PAIGE: Get that fulfillment. It's more at the local level, right? But being in a spot where.

PAIGE: You're fulfilling, you're representing this entire nation is just, I think, crazy, you know? And I just. I think there's a lot of pride because not.

PAIGE: Everybody can do it.

PAIGE: And to say that you did, I think is a pretty, pretty cool thing.

ROWELL: Absolutely. What would you say to young woman right now who might be considering entering the Air Force?

PAIGE: Go for it. You know.

PAIGE: I know that the military has taken great strides to make it a more inclusive place, and I'm sure that it is. And even with, you know, things that I experienced, I still I would still recommend it. You know, I think that it teaches you so much about yourself.

PAIGE: And.

PAIGE: Sacrifices how to, you know, work within a team, how to work individually. I mean, it really, you know, my husband and I talk about this all the time and like, part of me is just like, I feel like everybody should do it.

PAIGE: You know, I know that wouldn't go over well, but it almost feels like everybody should have that opportunity.

PAIGE: And make that commitment because it really is It teaches you so much about yourself.

ROWELL: Is there anything else that you would like to cover today about your service or veteran experience that we haven't yet?

PAIGE: I think I got it all.

ROWELL: I think I covered a lot of ground.

PAIGE: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: All right. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Gina. I really appreciate it. No problem. This concludes the interview with Gina Marie Paige on February 27th, 2023.