[Interview Begins]

HALASKA: All right. Today is December 21st, 2018. This is an interview with Michael L Schranz, who served with the Air Force National Guard and the 115th Communications Squadron from 1977 to 1999. This interview is being conducted at the Veterans Home in Verona, Wisconsin. The interviewer is Rochelle, Alaska, and this interview is being recorded for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. All right. Thank you for meeting with me, Mike. Let's just start off by you telling us where and when you were born.

SCHWANZ: I was born in [xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx].

HALASKA: Okay. And what was it like growing up there? Tell me a little about yourself then.

SCHWANZ: Well, my father was worked for an LP gas plant there in Baraboo. And when I was until the age of three, I lived in Baraboo with my sister and my mom and dad. Then we moved from Baraboo to Mount Horeb, and that is where I've actually been more or less went and high school grade school there. And and that's kind of where my homestead is, is actually in Mount Horror.

HALASKA: Okay. And just tell me a little bit more about your education and then going into the military.

SCHWANZ: Well, I have just general studies. I in high school. I was not into sports at all whatsoever. And I was just kind of coming out of my high school and as a senior and kind of wondering what I was going to do with the rest of my life. And I ended up going to MTC in Madison, downtown campus and police science. I thought, well, maybe I'll pursue the police program. And then at that time I knew a couple of general or mutual friends of mine who one of the gentlemen was with the National Guard out here at, uh, Madison at Truax Field, and he was a chaplain at the time. And he kind of talked to me and we just kind of hit it off together. And he said, Well, how would you like to think about joining the National Guard? Because I really didn't want to go in the military full time at the end and my time. I might want to pursue my education also. So he kind of talked me into coming out and talking to a couple of the recruiters and out there at the base. And next thing you know, I'd been in was was in it for 22 years at out at Truex here in Madison.

HALASKA: Okay. So can you tell me about joining and going to basic training?

SCHWANZ: Oh, yes. I will always remember basic training. I think anyone that's been in the military, that is one of the number one things that you always will remember the rest of your life. I went to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas, went through their training course down there, and there was a six weeks course at that time.

HALASKA: Okay. And what did you can you tell me about the training that you did during those six weeks?

SCHWANZ: More or less. A lot of exercising, a lot of getting out. And at the time when I was down there, it was in June. So of course it was very hot. So we did a lot of our training, formal training, mostly in the mornings. They would red flag us, they would call it in the afternoon, which means that you would have no exercising facility to do at all in the afternoons. So. But then I also went through the basic training program, the obstacle course, and never forget that either. And so it was very interesting. I mean, a lot of a lot of young individuals, too, that were just coming out of high school and trying to get a military career. Mhm. And the training you were asking about the training down there. A You have to take a class in in kind of more or less figure out what you want, what you're good at. For your aptitude tests, I guess, is what they called it at the time. And they figured that I would be good in the communication side of things. So I pursued that. And from Lackland, I ended up going to Keesler Air Force Base in Mississippi.

HALASKA: Keesler.

SCHWANZ: Keesler? Yes.

HALASKA: And what did you can you tell me about the training that you received at Keesler?

SCHWANZ: Keesler was it's a formal based honor, of course. It's down by Biloxi, Mississippi. And we were more or less taught the communications. I went to the Morse code at that time and we had to learn Morse code. I was actually a voice operator is what my AFC was. My first career field was. So we learned just your basic radio communications. Radio voice to voice is what I was doing. And it was more or less like these gentlemen that have the ham operator radios nowadays. That's what we actually were taught. And it was those kind of basic type of a radio.

HALASKA: Not what's a ham operator.

SCHWANZ: A ham operator is a gentleman who has their own radio at home. They're nationwide and national wide. They're ones that are kind of it's an amateur type of. Communications. These gentlemen have their own radios and they talk voice to voice. And they have antennas. Usually, if you know of one, you'll see a big antenna hanging in the back of their yard somewhere for their communication skills. And then they talk the talk all over the world. And they're kind of at that time they were very, very popular for a communications type of situation in case, you know, back then we never had cell phones. You never had all those satellite communications. So they were kind of like the next person's people in line. If there was any kind of a failure that would happen within within the United States for communications. And they would rely on these gentlemen to to talk.

HALASKA: Oh, okay.

SCHWANZ: And pass on communications.

HALASKA: Okay. And that's that's the kind of radio that you learned on.

SCHWANZ: Yes, it was. Yes. Yes.

HALASKA: And so you learned doing voice, voice and you learned Morse code.

SCHWANZ: Yes.

HALASKA: What other things were you learning at the time?

SCHWANZ: Well, you would learn how to do trafficking, we call it where you would actually we'd have a log. You'd have to do typing. I actually had to do a typing course and you'd have to type on an old fashioned typewriter and we'd have logs that we'd have to keep any type of communications between another facility. We'd have an actual log and typed it. And you know what, what was said between you and the other person? More or less. So it was pretty, pretty basic. I mean, the typewriter was a very big thing back then when I was in. In the military.

HALASKA: Mm hmm. Can you tell me a little bit about what it was like being on the base, like what the base was like and kind of about being in Mississippi in general?

SCHWANZ: Um, it was, you know, I was back in the later 70s I, and when I was down there and it was, you know, full fledged a military base, like I said earlier, you know, they were very, very formal. They would, you know, as a as a military person, you were treated just like your full time military person. I mean, I was in the National Guard side of things. And back then, you know, the Guard members were kind of looked at a little differently because we weren't full time military, but then yet we were still involved with everything else. I mean, we were taught and trained and everything just our counterparts were full time military. So back then, you know, the National Guard was just an extra hands, if you want to call it, if the, you know, the regular military needed some extra people. So and that's kind of where we were. And I mean, I was treated very well and I had a very good career and my military. Ever since day one. I had I had a very good career. And the training down here, like I say, you would just be taught just like what the full time military would be testing it out to take a test and testing out. And you had a lot of classroom. I was never really much. When you get into Keesler, it was more of a technical school. So you're actually like in like in a college kind of setting. I mean, you'd go to school and class work and that type of stuff. We never had to do any kind of drills in that type of work at all in the military like that. So.

HALASKA: Mhm. Did you get time off.

SCHWANZ: We would have time off. Yeah. We had after I think it was the first couple of weeks we had our weekends off always and we'd have time off during the night, time off. So I mean our classes would go like from 7:00 until I think it was like 3:00 in the afternoon, you know, we'd have classes. And then after that it was more or less around the free time or whatever we wanted to do.

HALASKA: Okay. What did you do in your free time?

SCHWANZ: Well, I did a lot of. Well, of course you do a lot of studying, you know, when you're first there, you know, and you want to make sure that you're. You're doing what you're supposed to be doing, learning and that kind of stuff. And then there, you know, once you started kind of getting more comfortable with the environment, then there was opportunities. I went to New Orleans a lot that wasn't too far away, was like an hour and a half drive and we'd get, you know, rental car and a lot of us would go down to New Orleans and see what that was all about. So. Very interesting cultural type city at that time.

HALASKA: So can you tell me more about that?

SCHWANZ: Well, we'd go down and of course, we always had to go to the French Quarters and then we would go down. And at the time they had. New Orleans was just kind of starting to open up to more tourism. I mean, it wasn't a big tourist type place back then, but then they started doing a boardwalk they had along the riverfront down there along the Mississippi River. They had doing a lot more tourists and drawing more people to the downtown area. Other than just the French Quarter. So and so we just had a mingle down there and just enjoyed the free time away from the base. Mm hmm.

HALASKA: Did you have a group of people that you went with regularly?

SCHWANZ: Yes, We'd always we'd always travel in groups. You know, that was one thing that they always recommended in the military is to always travel in groups of more than two people just for your own safety. And, you know, and and and also, it cut the cost down to of, you know, if you had to rent a car or whatever. But yeah. So the crowd around me there was really good, you know, you start to get to know people that want to go out and enjoy themselves too, and, and see what the outside of the world was other than just, you know, on the base itself there at at Keesler.

HALASKA: Mm hmm. Do you have any memorable times from from there?

SCHWANZ: Yes. Yes, I do. Yeah. I had some good friends of mine who are up here from Madison. And when I got down there to Keesler, they wanted to come down. So they came down and met me and we stayed off base. And we actually went to New Orleans and we had Hurricane Babe was out in the coast at the time. So we had almost the whole city downtown of New Orleans was under a hurricane watch. So we, of course, young guys, you know, we're on our toes, you know, and we were just kind of fearless. And we went and spent a lot of good quality time down in New Orleans. And I mean, sure, there was other people there, too, but but it was mostly, you know, the whole city was under a hurricane watch. And here we are, you know, your own go kart rides downtown. They had a you know, we were playing miniature golf. We're down in the French Quarter, you know, doing what we were doing our thing down there. And and actually, it was very it was really interesting because when we got back, of course, the newspapers, you know, a period of Hurricane Babe hits the golf course, you know. Well, I never came close to New Orleans. I mean, we were very safe at the time, you know, or we wouldn't be out there. But, you know, it's just kind of ironic that so when I ever hear of Hurricane Bay back and I think that was about 1978, I think is when Hurricane Baby had hit the coast down there. But we remember being in a hotel. We were right along the outside of Keesler. There's hotels there. And of course, we were right on the on the waterfront. And of course, it was pretty the waves were, you know, pretty high. And and we're in the hotel there, you know, and just Jordan, you know, enjoying ourselves. And and we can watch the furniture, the patio furniture go from one side of the of the the porch to the other side. So, you know, those kind of things just it was really kind of fun. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

HALASKA: Oh, excellent. Okay. So then is there anything else that you would like to talk more about? Interesting things that you learned, funny events or anything from your training?

SCHWANZ: Um, no, not really. I mean, it was pretty basic. I mean, you know, we, we were taught and, you know, and we, I think I was down there for, if I'm not mistaken, I think it was there for eight weeks and in, in the technical side of things. And, and, you know, we had a graduation ceremony. And unfortunately, my folks never could make it down to that. So but from there, then I came back home and started my career here at Trex Field. And so.

HALASKA: Okay. Yeah. Can you tell me then, so you when you came back, that was 1978.

SCHWANZ: Yeah, roughly around. Yeah. In 77 I went in and it was about well, I was in the latter part of 77 and 78 is when I, you know, came back to Truex here then. Yes.

HALASKA: Okay. And so then you worked at Truex in Civilian.

SCHWANZ: I wasn't. I was in Truex as a military National Guard. And I'd have to we are two week deployments and every one weekend per month we go out to Truex and train So. From Truex, we would go from well, we go from Truex up to Book Field, which is up by Mostyn, north of Boston. That was a really big training area for a lot of us. But then from Volk Field and on our two week deployments, we went all over the all over the United States. I never did go overseas. I had an opportunity to go to Germany, one deployment, but I never did go. But otherwise we'd go to the West Coast or down south. Always the warm climates, we'd always go and, you know, February, March and on and get away from the cold weather up here in Wisconsin's. Yeah.

HALASKA: So when you first started working at trucks, what kind of work were you doing at Truex?

SCHWANZ: I was in a in a in a camp center, we called it. It was actually in where they did all their traffic, very high traffic in messages. We had a little room in there that we had a radio and we'd come in every day and start and radio up and make sure that it worked and would then we'd have we call it a net where we talk to other bases that would be also on our schedule. We'd get a schedule up of who was supposed to be on and we would get on the radio and talk back and forth among them, and we'd send messages, traffic. It was all it was all informal and it was all kind of and it wasn't anything that was top secret, but it was just sending traffic back and forth and making sure that they could communicate with us and we could communicate with them.

HALASKA: And what do you mean by traffic?

SCHWANZ: Traffic would mean talking on the radio. Communications. We that was kind of us. That's kind of another slang for trafficking is calling it's communications among talking among ourselves. And a lot of times we would talk to other bases around the Midwest and they were all National Guard bases.

HALASKA: What would you be talking about?

SCHWANZ: Well, we we'd have routine messages that we'd have to send. They would be coded. Some of them were coded and they would have to go and have a key and you'd have to decipher what was being said. So, you know, it was it was it was just not your general talking either. I mean, there was some in coded messages that we would send.

HALASKA: Mm hmm. And was that. To to practice for certain events or. Okay.

SCHWANZ: Yeah, I was it was the practice for certain events, just in case. Like I say, if I were out in the real world, if something were to happen and they couldn't in the bases would lose all their communications and we would be the ones that they would be sending us to talk to the other bases with all their traffic and or their communications.

HALASKA: Okay.

SCHWANZ: Yeah.

HALASKA: Um. All right. Are there any. So talking about losing communications or something like that. What kind of what kind of other training did you do? Like emergency kind of training?

SCHWANZ: We did a lot of Kim gear. We would have to get in a Kim gear. Mark Kim Gear is set. We did a lot of on our two weeks and we'd go up to walk field and actually mark like we were under nuclear attack type stuff and we'd have to dawn dawn dawn our Kim gear and you know, we'd have to be in that for 2 or 3 hours at a time. And we'd also have to well, we also had to do rifle range and I wasn't again, an expert ribbon out of firing on on that. So I've got that ribbon for that. So that's kind of the basic stuff that we would do. I mean, we didn't have to do any obstacle courses or anything like that, so.

HALASKA: Okay. And were you with the 115 the entire time?

SCHWANZ: I was most of the time toward the end of my career. Well, actually, I change Jobs are my first AFC, as we call it, was phased out. So I actually was looking around there. I went into a training side of things at Truex out there. I was into another squadron, but it was just for a very brief time and I really didn't care for the work that would that we had to do. And that was they called it. You were kind of a training manager at the time, and we used to have to have folders and you'd have to keep track of everyone's folders, making sure they were all up to date with their shots and and their training and all that. And I just didn't really care for that. So then I went back into the 1/15 Communication squadron again, and then I ended up being retrained as a computer operator. So when I got out of my and when I retired, I was actually a computer operator.

HALASKA: Okay. Um. All right, well, let's go. Let's go back and talk about some of those training deployments that you had kind of throughout the years and the different places that you went.

SCHWANZ: Sure.

HALASKA: Yeah. Let's let's talk about those.

SCHWANZ: I. Well, we go. Like I say, a lot. We went to Sacramento, California, a lot. That was a big training base. Military base. Actually, that was a full time base. And US National Guard people would go on the full time basis and spend a lot of time in Sacramento. Spent a lot of time and made their Air Force base. That's down in Florida. And between and then we between those two areas, that was mostly where we go a lot is to California. We go to Florida. And other than going well, then I went to Alaska one year or two, and then I also went to Hickam Air Force Base in Hawaii. That was my last deployment before I retired out. So.

HALASKA: Okay. Um, do you remember your first deployment? Where he went to.

SCHWANZ: I really don't. I think it was out. I think it was just Sacramento, if I'm not mistaken. I know we spent a lot of time out there and in California. And I if I recall, I think that was our first deployment was out to California.

HALASKA: Okay. And do you remember anything specific about getting out there or what you did when you're out there with the facilities?

SCHWANZ: Well, we'd always go by military flight. And at the time they used to have an on order aircraft. It was a two engine prop and they had put like 40 of us guys in this airplane. And when I can remember, we went out there in this airplane at least twice. And I can remember it was quite a ride. I mean, we'd be in the back. And they have they call it a pallet chase and they'd have a pallet tied down in the back of the airplane, and then you'd have a few chairs. They were bench seats. They were actually boarded down in the aircraft. But all the rest of it was all more and more or less. You just stood around or you laid on the floor and and you just flew and and and, you know, there was a few rough rides there where a few of the people were. You know, I was afraid that if we got airsick, it would have went through the whole crew on the airplane. But we survived. But but we did that for a couple of years. And then we got into the C-130s, which is a big cargo airplanes. And then we also would they would transport us out in the C-130. So that would be that would be that that was the next aircraft that I flew on.

HALASKA: Okay. Mm hmm. Um hmm. Excuse me. And then when you were out there, what kind of training did you do?

SCHWANZ: We would do the same thing that we do at Truex. They would have radios set up, and we'd go into a radio area. And when I was in my first day of See, which was, you know, almost I think it was almost eight years of my career, we would go out and we we then have a room set up and they'd have a radio set up. And then we'd tried to talk to other basses on the West Coast, and they'd have again, they would have a schedule of who was supposed to be up and, and then we would then we'd send our messages that were all made up for us to send. So to practice with. Mm hmm. Yeah.

HALASKA: Okay. Is there. Do you have any? Any stories that you would like to share about some of these training events that you went to? Um, we were.

SCHWANZ: We were, you know, us in the communications side of things, we were kind of exempt. I mean, we kind of were our lonely kind of individuals compared to our, our work, our workload. You know, we, we, they were, they were just slowly phasing out radio communication. Everything was starting to go back to satellite communications and computers. You know, they were just starting to kind of come into the computer era when I was in there, you know, where everything was sent by computer. You know, like it is nowadays. Everything is sent by cell phones, you know, And but back then, you know, the computer was the was just the starting of things, you know, of how communications is going to be done is through the computers. So, you know, our training out there, we were kind of where it was kind of hard to explain. We'd go out and people wouldn't wouldn't even know that we were on the base, you know, until we until we left the next day to go back home, really. I mean, you know, we, we are pretty pretty by ourselves, pretty isolated. You know, I mean, sure, our our counterparts would knew where we were, but where we more or less had, you know, our own little work area and no one bothered us. And we kind of left and left. They left us alone and we left everyone else alone. So.

HALASKA: Okay. So did you have basically the same group of people that you were with the entire time?

SCHWANZ: Yes, I had we had about four in my section that we called the section, and there was four of us. I had a supervisor over me, and then we had our first sergeant, of course, who was over the whole squad and our squadron part. But then I had a supervisor over me and then there was three of us airmen and I came up through the ranks. I started as an as an airman, and then I went to airman first class and then went up and I retired out as a master sergeant. So that was my rank. So but at when we were in these training areas, we had to have a supervisor and we'd all stay together. And we stayed together for almost 16 years. All of us did so.

HALASKA: Oh, okay. Wow.

SCHWANZ: Yeah, we never had too many people leaving. We the gentleman that I was with, one of the my supervisor, he was a prior army. He was in the National Guard in the Army side of things. And then he transferred into the Air Force National Guard because he just didn't care how the Army was kind of treating him. And then I had another gentleman who was kind of my counterpart. He was in the Vietnam War and he was in the Marine Corps and he was on C-130s. He was an assistant crew member, a flight member. They called him. And then he came in the Vietnam War, of course, ended. So then he came in and and joined us on the Air Force National Guard side of things. So so I had an Army gentleman and I had a marine. And then we had myself, who was a civilian at the time. And then there was another civilian that came in also. But I don't remember if she stayed in with us very long, but the three of us, my supervisor and the other gentleman and me, we we stayed together for almost 12, 13 years together and and Truex out there.

HALASKA: So. Wow.

SCHWANZ: Yeah.

HALASKA: Okay. Yeah. So and so you guys would all go out to these training exercises together too, and not be all left alone? Correct. What what would you guys do to entertain yourself?

SCHWANZ: Well, we would go off base. You know, we went to San Francisco a lot. I mean, between San Francisco and Sacramento, it's only like an hour and a half drive. And we'd get a rental car and we we'd go around Sacramento to and just see what Sacramento would be like. But a lot of our deployments, when we got to Sacramento, everyone wanted to go to San Francisco. So we'd spend our weekends down there and, you know, and we it was very nice, very enjoyable. Got to see San Francisco. I was there at least three times. So, you know, kind of got to know what the ins and outs were. And then, of course, we'd go to the Golden Gate Bridge, spend a lot of time driving across the Golden Gate Bridge and and just seeing just seeing what the country was like. So it was very nice, very enjoyable.

HALASKA: What did you like in San Francisco?

SCHWANZ: You know what I really enjoyed about San Francisco? As diverse as the, you know, the city. I mean, you go from Chinatown to. Well, they had different sections of San Francisco. I mean, you can you can get on the cable car and you could ride around the whole San Francisco area within a couple of hours. And and. You know, you can see all the different little communities that are within San Francisco and, you know, spend time down Fisherman's Wharf and that kind of stuff and and just enjoy their culture. It was really, really interesting and enjoyment.

HALASKA: Cool. Yeah. And then the the base in Florida.

SCHWANZ: The base in Florida, we went to us we went to Patrick Air Force Base and that's just on the bump in the panhandle. And that that was another full time Air Force base. But US Air National Guard guys went down there a lot because of the warm weather and to get out of the cold and we and Patrick, our first base was again another, you know, full time military base. But we would go down and and do our same training that we do in Madison here at Trek. So and the same gentleman would go, you know, and what was nice is that we'd have we just didn't have just the radio communication people. There was like four of us. We'd have also the count center, they called it, and they had they had about 5 or 6 different people also. So when we went on these deployments, it was like about ten of us that we'd always go together and, you know, enjoy, enjoy the time together.

HALASKA: Okay. Um, and okay, so you said the com center.

SCHWANZ: Yes, the com center, they called it. Yeah. And that was that was where we were actually our, our radio was within the com center. I mean they just had a special room right off the comm center. But we would mingle and and be with those people also. And then of course when we went on these big deployments, it wouldn't just be it just wouldn't be the communication squadron, it would be the whole base. I mean, we'd have the security and military police. We had tech support, we would have personnel, people, you know, so we'd have a full you know, we'd have maybe over 100 people, if not more, that would go on these deployments with us. So and then you get to know all of them because you'd be all together, you know, and and mingle and you get to know they're in and outs and everything so. Mhm. Yeah.

HALASKA: Um, and then did you guys go off the base in Florida like you did in fact?

SCHWANZ: Yes. Yes. We'd go off base, you know, and a lot of us would all go together as a group, you know, and we'd rent some cars and we'd all kind of, you know, go and see the scenes and and different areas down there. Yes. Yep.

HALASKA: Okay. Um, and then you said you went to Alaska, Hawaii and Germany.

SCHWANZ: Yes, I went I didn't go to Germany. I was going to go to they had a deployment to Germany, but I never went overseas to that one. But we went to Fairford Fairbanks, Alaska. There was a Air Force base up there. And again, it was just more or less doing our same training. But we spent we spent two weeks up in Alaska, um, very enjoyable, went up and saw, um, the park up there. I can't think of the name of it where the mountain is.

HALASKA: Denali.

SCHWANZ: Denali. Thank you. Yes. I went up there and, and went through that and got to see a lot of what Alaska was all about. Never, never went down to Anchorage, though. I there was some guys that drove down to Anchorage, but we kind of stayed up in Fairbanks and kind of the northern part of the of the state up there.

HALASKA: Um, can you tell me what did you like about Denali?

SCHWANZ: Denali Well, you know, it's a big natural preserve and, you know, it's a national park. And we were, we were so enjoy about that as we got to go. And when you go in to the park, everyone thinks you drive your car in and you can only drive your car to a certain part of Denali Park and then you have to get on a bus and then you have to take the tour busses up to the mountain. They take it up to the foothills of the where the mountain ranges up there. And that was very, very enjoyable, you know, seeing the wildlife. And so I loved the first time we went up there. There was a lot of grizzly bears we got to see. And then the second day, my commander and I, he we wanted to go on the kind of a guided tour with a with a tour with one of the Rangers. So the next day the other guys went back down to the base and we stayed and went up and went on a tour with with the Ranger, and that was very enjoyable. We actually foot we actually got the Walker feet, you know, and go up a pretty good sized mountain hill to, you know, and just walked around and you know, he explained the different different parts of the park and that kind of stuff. And so that was very enjoyable. And then, of course, we were only there and then we went back that same day, back down to the base. So it was like about a two. We're so a tour they call foot tours. They call it with the Rangers, so. Yeah. Very enjoyable. Oh, nice. Yeah.

HALASKA: Okay. And you know, what about or what year you were in Alaska?

SCHWANZ: Uh, it had been in the middle 80s, if I'm not mistaken, is when I was up there. I think it was like around 84, maybe 85 is when we went up to Alaska.

HALASKA: And then Hawaii said that was near the end of your.

SCHWANZ: Yes, I retired in June of 1999, and we went to Hickam Air Force Base in Hawaii. That was in May, I think in April excuse me. It was April of 1999. We went to Hickam Air Force Base and very enjoyable. Got to go down and see the war and other the the the memorial where the ship was and got to tour that. And and just to spend a little time around Honolulu. Honolulu is right there outside of Hickam. So we got to go and see what were Honolulu was all about. Actually, we got a rental car and we drove around the island. We actually drove around the island twice. So and it takes about three hours, four hours to drive around the whole island. So. So we got to stop and see the different tourist areas there. So. Yeah.

HALASKA: Oh, nice. Anything stand out?

SCHWANZ: I got the claim. Diamond Head. Diamond Head was right there in Honolulu. Got to. And then they have a tour where you can walk up to the top of the diamond head. And I went, My wife at the time, she flew out, too. And so she met us out there and stayed on the base with me. And and we got to tour the island. And then we got the tour the second time with some of the other people also. So I, my wife and I both claimed. Right. Claimed Diamond had twice and my wife claimed it once and then but I claimed it with also with a lot of my other co coworkers that we had at the time. So yeah, that was very enjoyable. Yeah.

HALASKA: Oh, nice. Okay. So you said that when when you were and it was kind of you were seeing the change from. Kind of the old system of communication to change into the satellite and computers in that. Can you tell me a little bit about the about the discussions that you had with your other comms guys about those changes?

SCHWANZ: Oh, yes, it was it was kind of a big deal back then because, you know, a lot of us were going to lose our jobs. We kind of knew we were going to I should say we had to change our jobs to a if you wanted to still stay in as you're in a career in the National Guard, I mean, they were going to they phase out the radio communications back as probably in the middle 90s or so. And then like I say, that's when they started pushing the computers. And every at the time when I was in the com center, they have the paper, we called it paper reports and they would be coming off these big huge printers and everything was always paper and you had to read the reports and then, you know, you'd have people that were it was top secret. I had a top secret clearance to work there. And we, you know, have to pull off all these big reports stack and make sure that the people that and the different sections of the base would get their reports, you know, and it was all military information, that kind of stuff. And well, they were just starting to phase that out. When I got out to Paperless, everything was on the computer then. So, you know, you didn't have all this paper products, everything. You just go on a computer and you had a special log in and you had a way to get into the computer and and then you could read all your message and all your trafficking on the on an encrypted computer that they had there on the base. So and that's when I got out and they were just starting to phase change that over from paper to paper list and the computers. So and yeah, it was a big thing. I mean, you know, a lot of a lot of gentlemen and a lot of a lot of military people, you know, just knew that they had to change. You know, you're going to have to change your your EFC, we call it, or you're going to have to find a different alternative. You know, So so most of us all stayed together until the until we retired, really. So the three of us did anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

HALASKA: So. Okay. And you talked about. So you had a top secret clearance.

SCHWANZ: I did have top secret clearance, yes. We all had to have top secret clearance working in the Comm Center. Yes.

HALASKA: Okay. And you distributed the reports?

SCHWANZ: We would distribute the reports. Most of it was just they have a cage area, they called it. So the people there, the carriers, they call them carriers, would come in. They were authorized. They were certain people that could take the messages and take them out of the com center to where there where they were working. You know, you have to show an ID, you know, that type of thing where you get to know everyone you know there because it was a small base, you know, and do time, you know. But that's how the messages we never really carried the message traffic out of the comm center that was all done by carriers or or authorized people that would come to the com center and and get the reports and then leave with the reports. Okay. Yeah.

HALASKA: Um, during that the time period that you were in from 77 to the 90s, there is, I mean, the Cold War was going on.

SCHWANZ: Yes.

HALASKA: Can you tell me about how you thought about that and how the other members of the Air Force National Guard that you were with were thinking about that at the time and how it influenced you?

SCHWANZ: Yes, there was a lot of gentlemen that were in the military when I first got in that came off that off of Vietnam. A lot of people were in between the the Vietnam era and the peace time, like myself, you know, after Vietnam. A lot of gentlemen were also in that were prior to Vietnam. So which means that there was a lot of a lot of seniors that were in in that were in in my branch of work that were pretty well at the end of their military career. And, of course, you know, those gentlemen were all being phased out, which meant what I mean by phased out is they just come to the end of your career or you just you're or if you don't want to do it anymore, you just have you just get out, you know, so that that changeover with the National Guard back then, you know, the National Guard was always like a you know, they were like a peacetime kind of organization. They were always looked at like the National Guard wouldn't get involved in an act of active military setting. But, you know, once we hit Iraq, you know, and the Persian Gulf situation occurred, that really opened the eyes up to a lot of the older seniors that were in. You know, in the organization where, yeah, maybe this isn't really what they were here and signed up for either, so. And I think they lost a lot of retention. And the retention was very kind of kind of high. You know, at the time, because a lot of people just did not really want to go in and get involved in a lot of the conflicts that were going on. I mean, sure. Don't get me wrong. You're in the military. You signed up for what you're doing. But you know, your. But a lot of them just didn't have didn't want to get involved in that part of the of our history and war, you know, And and I was in there when we had the Persian Gulf. I had a Persian Gulf ribbon. But again, I was part time. So I we had full time we had full time people also on it, Truex. And, you know, some of them actually volunteered to go over to Iraq at the time. But most of us stayed stateside. We we actually they would call us up and we'd work at Truex full time to maintain, you know, the bays full time. Then they kind of went to an active, full time base there at Truex when they had these kind of conflicts that went on. Well, then, of course, you know, the pilots there, you know, we had six at the time and the F 16 pilots, you know, they were they were more or less the next group that went out, you know, and the other support people would leave the base and go over to Iraq, you know, for the Persian Gulf and, you know, conflict and that type of thing. So there was a lot of a lot of big changes that went on, you know, with with how the National Guard was looked at. And I think that, you know, when we when we hit our Iraq, though, you know, in the Persian Gulf, that really changed the whole outlook of what the National Guard really stood for, because, you know, we we backfilled they called it backfilling at the time where they would go and, you know, fill in and help them build a full time military out there, you know, during these conflicts. Mm hmm. So.

HALASKA: Okay. And when you say there is a change, change in how they were seen, do you mean like from within the National Guard or.

SCHWANZ: I think.

HALASKA: I.

SCHWANZ: Think the other military, too. You know, I mean, a lot of times we go into the military bases, you know, back when it was, you know, peaceful peacetime and they would look at us like, oh, you're just National Guard. You know, you're here just part time, you know? And then, of course, you know, some of the full time people would kind of take it a little defensive, you know, I mean, they would kind of look at you like, well, you know, you're only here part time, you know, But then I think that all changed, you know, when we went to these different conflicts, you know, and I think for then, actually, the full time military really depended on the National Guard staff because they would come in and actually a lot of them would come into the main bases stateside and start doing their operations while those people were all being deployed overseas, you know, for the conflicts that were going on. So the National Guard really took a stronger role, you know, in helping in United States. I think, you know, with the military, I mean, just not Air Force, you know, Army did the same thing, you know, And so I think, you know, that that whole philosophy really did change a lot. You know, how we were looked at.

HALASKA: Okay. Yeah. Let me see. You said before you got out. You changed from your radio job to a computer operator? Yes. So did you have to go back to training and school for that?

SCHWANZ: Yes, I did. I ended up in Keesler again for my second time in my career, and I had to go down there and go to test school. They had a school for, I think it was three weeks of numbers taken that change over from that. It was as a three week class that I had to take down there to be a computer operator. But at that time I went down there and there was another kind of a phasing change because they didn't really know how to teach us because the computer operations was going from, from, well, they kind of taught us the paper side of things, but then they were also going paperless and they were going more and more to the computers. So, you know, our, our, our papers that we were taught that we had to do was being phased out. So what I'm trying to say is that I got kind of caught up in in a kind of a, an in-between thing. I mean, I went in in the training course, but I can still remember this day is that the training course that I went to was going to be phased out. And we were about the last class to go through this, through this last class of being taught what we were supposed to be taught. But then the instructors down there really were trying to change their their criteria of how the class was supposed to be changed. So we were it was kind of a kind of a hit and miss type of of training for us. But I mean, we we went through it, you know, and they had very good instructors and had a good instructor down there and everything. So but I, you know, I got through it and got back and, and got that that job title then as as computer operator. So but down there, you know it was another a lot of a lot of things are changing in the 80s and in the early 90s about training and you know and just again I got caught up in two different phases, you know, of things being changed in the military. So.

HALASKA: Okay, well, what else was changing?

SCHWANZ: Well, I think I think the whole philosophy, again, with there was a lot of other different career fields that were also being changed, you know, while training was was a big thing. I mean, you know, they they had to teach people how to even look at. At your job. Totally different. I mean, when the conflict started, I mean, you know, they would actually have people they just had a different attitude, you know, of of how your job was supposed to be performed, you know, And they really, really Truex out here was was rated so high in their training and you know, they they had a lot of training where they were excellent after their I guess they call it their and so they had a lot of excellent excellent ratings. So they had a high standard. And so it was it was just another big phase, you know, and I think a lot of younger people, you know, I was I was you know, when I went in, I was in 20 years of age. And I think the attitude of joining the military was starting to kind of lose its you know, if you didn't have a father son or a grandfather or someone else that was in the military, I think people really well, I was all volunteer, You know, you weren't you didn't have to be you know, you weren't drafted. And I think that whole thing was just kind of shifting a little bit, the whole the whole attitude of the military, you know, with a lot of young people. You know, before 911, of course, 911 changed the whole course of the military. You know, I think, you know, it opened up everyone's eyes. Everyone wanted to jump back into the military to, you know, to do what they want to do, you know, to help the country and everything. But before that, I think we were just kind of, you know, kind of just going along, you know, and making the motions and and the attitude of the military was, okay, you're in the military. Are you going to be in for 20 years or are you going to be only in it for your your commitment of eight years? You know, at that time when I went in, you had to have a command and I think it was eight years you had to be in or six years, you know, And then they they were changing that. And and of course, retention was low, you know, and then but I think I think 911 kind of really woke up the whole country. I think it woke up the military. I think it woke up the patriotic ness of the country when 911 kind of struck. But. So that's kind of where I where I was in my military career, so. Mm hmm. Yeah.

HALASKA: So going back here, your train, you're around to training. Were there a lot of youngsters in your class?

SCHWANZ: You know, there was a lot of youngsters in my and in my training classes. You know, when I went back to Keesler the second time, I was the oldest. I was the oldest one at, you know, 50 some almost 50 some years of age, you know, being back in retraining because otherwise they all, you know, 19, 20 year olds, 22 year olds that were in there, you know. So that age was really it went from one spectrum to the other. You know, like I think I well, I like I say, I was in my 50s when I had to go back and retrain. But you had all the younger people who, you know, we're just getting into the military. So you had all the younger people that were very motivated. Don't get me wrong, Everyone that I enjoy that I saw in the military was very motivated. I mean, they really I mean, they wanted to be there. If they weren't if they didn't be there, they wouldn't have been in the military. And, you know, very patriotic, you know, people that would come in, very, very patriotic, you know, And, you know, there was no how can I say it? Everyone, everyone got along with everyone and everyone respected everyone, you know. And if you're male, female, you know, your gender didn't make any difference. You know, your race didn't make any difference in R-1 everyone got along and, you know, they supported each other. Mm hmm. Yeah.

HALASKA: Mm hmm. While you were in, did you see a rise in women joining the Air National Guard?

SCHWANZ: You know, when I got in, in the 70s, it was. It was. But even really, to be honest with you. But there was a lot of a lot a lot of women officers. There was a lot of enlisted all women. A lot of females were mostly enlisted. But I think in the 90s is when that really started changing them too. You got a lot more women that were getting higher up in ranks. You know, they would get, you know, captains, the tenants. You'd see a lot more of that happening. But you know, back when I first started back in the 70s, I still remember this, is that it was mostly white male, you know, I mean, you'd have a I mean, we had a few females that would join, but, you know, it was mostly white males. And then of course, the 90s that I think that kind of started changing. Then you got a lot more Afro-Americans, you know, a lot of, a lot of white females, a lot of. That the whole culture kind of shifted, you know, in the middle 90s, I would say. Yeah. So.

HALASKA: Um. So during this time you were in the Air National Guard part time? Correct. Were you doing civilian side?

SCHWANZ: Civilian side? A. Well, I guess I started it, Mitzi. I was in police science. After I got out of police science, I got into St Mary's. It's a local hospital here in Madison, Wisconsin. I got started as a security officer and I started part time. And then I worked myself full time. And I was here for over 39 years at the hospital and security work. And then, of course, between that and the National Guard on the weekends and in my two weeks deployment, that was my career for 39 years.

HALASKA: Oh, yeah. Nice.

SCHWANZ: Yeah.

HALASKA: Yeah.

SCHWANZ: Well, I mean, at the hospital I then I put in 22 years in at the National Guard and retired. So I worked full time. I had a full time job. Mm hmm.

HALASKA: And then when? When did you meet your wife?

SCHWANZ: Well, I was first married. I'm on my. And my second wife. Her name is Linda. My my first wife. And we had our first marriage. And I had that was when I first got out of high school. First couple of years in college, I met my first wife and and I had had marriage with her for a couple of years and had a daughter out of her, out of my first marriage and then got divorced, of course. And then I got into a met another nice lady who is my wife now for 30 years who worked at the hospital. And we met at the hospital on a blind date. And the rest is our history. Three And she had two daughters out of her first marriage. And so I and then I had a daughter out of my first marriage. So I had three daughters instantly. So. But everything worked out fine. We had a very good marriage. Like I said, we've been married for almost 30 over almost 30 years now. So in our our daughters are all grown up and they've all got their own families and they have their own kids and that type of thing. So. Yeah. Nice. Yes.

HALASKA: How many grandkids do you have?

SCHWANZ: I have, uh, to something. My wife, she had two daughters and her first daughter. Oldest daughter had two boys. So I have two step granddaughters from her side of the family. And then my daughter just reason while she's been married for almost ten years now. And she's got four. Children four. I got three. Three grandsons and a granddaughter. So out of that, married on that side of the family, so, so and so, I've got a let's see, how many would I have out here to have three, four, five, six. And then I'm also a great grand father, a step great grandfather, because the oldest one, actually, both of the sons of my wife's daughters, the first daughter, she's had two boys and both of the boys now have had their own children. So so it got quite a quite a blending there of families. So. Yes, yes. Yeah, they all call me Poppa and they all come and grandpa, which is nice. Yeah. Yes.

HALASKA: And how was it balancing the full time job and going off with their National Guard and family? You know.

SCHWANZ: It was it would be kind of rough because I would have my I would work at the hospital, of course, and I'd work weekends every other weekend. Well, sometimes those every other weekends. And I was supposed to work on the house, but also conflicted with going at the National Guard for the two weeks deployment and also every other weekend. So but, you know, they they did pass a law. They had a federal law that was passed here in the United States about, you know, that employers couldn't discriminate. You, you know, for you had to make your military. Obligations, you know, without being penalized or anything like that. So, you know, to be honest with you, I had a very good supervisor at my hospital who was very supportive with the military. And, you know, and when I needed those two weeks off or and also, though that weekend off, I mean, it would always be off, you know, for my military. Yeah.

HALASKA: Okay. Was that law passed while you were in or was it passed before?

SCHWANZ: And if I'm not mistaken, I think that was passed after I got here. And if I'm not mistaken, I think wasn't that back in the 80s they passed that federal law where they couldn't discriminate against the military people. I think it was in the middle 80s, if I'm not mistaken, where I am. There was a federal law was passed about that discrimination.

HALASKA: And did you ever have any trouble before that?

SCHWANZ: I had never I had no problems whatsoever.

HALASKA: Because you don't forget supervisors.

SCHWANZ: Yes. Yeah, I have. Yeah. In the administration, it was very supportive. Also, the the administrator that was over, my supervisor, he was, if I'm not mistaken, I think he was ex Navy or he had some Navy. So I think that kind of also helped a lot, you know, at the time to to get off. So because he understood what it was about the military. Yeah.

HALASKA: When you were picking which branch of service that you wanted to go into, what did your what did your dad think about your choosing in the Air Force?

SCHWANZ: Well, he didn't really he didn't he didn't really say yes or no, really. I mean, you know, he was prior Marine, So of course, he is a former Marine back in World War Two. So and, you know, he when I said that I was going to join the military, he more or less thought, oh, okay, you know, go for it. You know, so I had there was really no no conflicts whatsoever in the family side of things with me joining. And my mother was very supportive too at the time. So. Yeah. Yeah.

HALASKA: Excellent. So are there any other. Any other stories from your military service that you would like to share?

SCHWANZ: Well, I remember when I when I had my old briefing, when I when I put in my 22 years out in Truex, we had to have an old briefing and there was a retention officer. And I can still remember this day. He, you know, you have an exit they called an exit interview where, you know, you go in and you talk to someone who was on the personnel side of things. And and the gentleman asked me, he says, well, how did you like your 22 years in the National Guard? And I said, I loved it. I had great time. I've never had any conflicts. And this gentleman just stood there and sat there for about five minutes, just dumbfounded. He just he didn't know what to say. And he says, I've never I you know, he he said, I've never met a Guardsman like you that has ever said that, you know. And so I was kind of I was always taken aback about that, you know, and and that kind of made me feel better, you know, good made me feel good. And I think I made him feel a little bit better, too, because you could tell that, you know, I think he's heard a lot, you know, and he probably heard more of the grumbling of things and the other the positive things. So when I said that to him, I think the positiveness kind of just kind of came out a little bit more than, you know, I think he was just waiting for me to just kind of say, oh, you know, I had a bad 22 years and blah, blah, this and blah, blah that. And it didn't happen. It just, you know, So that's kind of kind of how it was. Mm hmm.

HALASKA: Just thinking about. So, Truex, what changes did you see there over over the years?

SCHWANZ: Oh, I saw a lot of big changes when I first got in. There was no fence around Truex. We had the old barracks. I don't know how many people know about Madison's history. We were down on right street. We were When I first got in, they had some old barracks as they were like World War two barracks that they were still doing a lot of their training out of. Sure. The aircraft were on on that. They had they had aircraft out there at the time. And of course, they had a secured fence around just the perimeter of that of the airport where the planes were kept. But we had no fence. I mean, we would go in and we'd drive up to the building and the building would sit lying around, just sit like a regular building would on the on the public. I mean, when we were driving by, you know, and and we would do our thing. But I mean, that that all changed, right when I got in. I mean, it was just in the next 3 or 4 years is when they put a military installation in where it was all fence cleared, you know, 24 hour security. And you went behind the fence and you were there until you left, you know, And so that that whole philosophy that saw a lot of change, a lot of upgrading, a lot of big security changes. But Truex at the time. Yep.

HALASKA: Okay. Yeah. What do you think prompted that?

SCHWANZ: I think it prompted. That was just. I think it Truex out here needed to upgrade themselves to stay with the times and you know tend to get themselves aggravated to being more military and sort of just, you know, guardsmen coming in on the weekends, you know, and doing their thing and driving away. You know, there's some armories around me and Wisconsin that people know about them. Some of the armories at the time didn't even have fences either. You just drive off the street and drive up to a building and it's, you know, like army, you know, armory. And you just drive up and park your car and go in and do your thing and, you know, do your job and come back out and the way you went. And, you know, that's, you know, the other I think it just had to be it was just a change in in the military philosophy back in the 80s. You know, I think they they just need to get up with the times, you know, and the National Guard bases had to be activated, you know, get get up to speed, you know, to be with the regular an active military. So I think that's what prompt Truex out here you know to do what they have nowadays. If if no one's ever been out to Truex and Madison here, he should drive over there and just drive past the fence. I mean, it's very impressive of what they have there now. Mhm. And the same with the Army, two Army National Guard. They've done a lot of upgrading to.

HALASKA: And in the training scenarios that you guys ran over the many, many years, did you see any? So not necessarily what you guys were doing. You guys were kind of doing the same job each time with what they were training for. What kind of changes did you see there?

SCHWANZ: Oh, yes. We would have to go. You know, they would evacuate there and when they did these big training. Exercises they call it, they call it. And they would have a big two week training course where you have to go into this mock thing. And they would be it'd be like a nuclear attack is what it was. More or less. They taught and they ran and hit the base. And then you had a survivor, you know, out of all that. And and they were training a lot for overseas deployment, like the European side of things. And they were training, training people and how to cope if, you know, we were hit by more or less on nuclear attacks, you know, of how how to survive, you know, if a base, you know, got hit, how much casualties, you know, you're going to always have casualties, but you would also have the ones that could survive. And what and how do you survive and prepare yourself for that? And that's what they did. The training was mostly for it, too. So, you know, when we went to these training exercises, especially up at Vogue Field, we do them as in the summer months. And I mean, we'd go, it was pretty heavy duty stuff. And, and you know, we and even as a radio operator, they'd evacuate. Like they would say, okay you're you're buildings on fire so evacuate. So then we would have to go out of the building, but then we'd go and help other sections like we'd, we'd be an extra support. You know, you're, you're survival of, of what year you have your job was. But then you would go in like they would teach you how to go and help the pilots. We actually one time I remember being up there, the pilots had a down their mask and we got more or less evacuated from our building. So we went out onto the tarmac and we actually helped the pilots putting on their gear so they could get into their airplane and into their fighters and fly away. So it was really, really interesting. So, you know, it was a lot of a lot of teamwork, a lot of teamwork was was emphasized back then, you know, of of helping other people, you know, and and just that, you know, your job was important, don't get me wrong. But there's also other jobs that, you know, people needed help with. You'd be tasked, you know, you'd go in and some of these two week deployments, we we'd actually go in and help the cooks. We'd go in and 4:00 in the morning and prepare breakfast and and stand in and help them get their food, you know, and that kind of stuff. Get ready for the troops. So, so we weren't just strictly always just radio communications. I mean, we would be tasked with other people that do what their jobs were. Also, you know, the see what we had to have. Yeah.

HALASKA: All right. Is there anything else about. Good. Okay.

SCHWANZ: I don't think so. I think I you know, I like I say, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the people I worked with. I enjoyed the people I met. I you know, I enjoyed my supervisors. I enjoyed my commanders all the way up, you know, had and had some very memorable times. And and just I have very content, very content. And I would you know, I to this day, I don't have any younger children. You know, I don't have any assembling this and that. But I would say that if they wanted to go and join the military, go and do it. You know, I think it's an experience that you'll never forget, you know, and just just just the learning of of respect, you know, and hard work and teamwork. You know, it it has a it has a lot to say of maybe how human could get along with each other nowadays too. So. Mhm. Yeah.

HALASKA: Would you say that that's probably one of the main things that you learn from your military experience.

SCHWANZ: Oh yes. Oh yes. And I know I remember when my, when I got out of technical school and came back and my mom, she always said boy you changed you know, and to me, okay what did I change? Well, you know, just being I'm very organized, you know, And a lot of people scrutinize me even at my age of, you know, well, under the middle 60s, you know, almost you know, it's just something that I was ingrained when I was in the military. You know, you and you just some things you just you just carry through life, you know, And that's just the way I am. I mean, I can't change myself. And, you know, I just but, you know, I just want that's just what the military has done to me too, you know, so. Mhm. Yeah.

HALASKA: Okay. How did you see it? How did it affect how you carried yourself in your security job.

SCHWANZ: Oh I think, I think people realized that I didn't, I, I was really kind of a cut and dried type of person, you know. And when there was your job to do, do your job, do your job the way you're you're taught to do it. Don't complain about your job. You know, you're hired to do the job. Do the job. And, you know, and of course, you, you know, following the rules, I guess I've always been that way, you know, follow what the rules are. You know, don't don't deviate from the rules because then you get yourself in trouble, you know, and people would wonder why you got yourself in trouble. Well, why would you get yourself in trouble? You know what I mean? So I was I was I was kind of cultured that way, you know. Mhm. So in my civilian job, I. I've always been that way and I always am. I always want to do the best I can in my job to, you know, and then do the right, do it the right way, you know. So.

HALASKA: Do you have any examples on premier civilian job of when? You. Doing things the right way.

SCHWANZ: Well, you know, in the security work, you always have to follow a lot of different protocols. You know, we had a lot of policies that were written down, you know, and and sure, you could deviate a little bit, don't get me wrong. But but that's what the policies are written for, is to make sure, you know, you can do your job safely and correctly and, you know, and don't get called out, you know, about not doing your job the wrong way. And, you know, I've never I never had that problem of all my years in the civilian side of doing jobs. I've never I've never been faltered, you know, never been said, well, you know, you should have done it the way we told you to do it. Well. I always have listened. You know, a good listener trying to be a good listener. So I guess that's helped me through my civilian life. Mm hmm. So, yeah.

HALASKA: Okay. What did you do after the service and after you retired?

SCHWANZ: Well, I retired, you know, back in 1999. So I had a, you know, and I was only in my middle 50s. So of course, I, you know, still had quite a few years to go on my civilian job. So I, you know, when I retired out, I just waited until I was at the age that I could draw my military pension at 60, you know, And and now I'm getting, you know, my pension and then I'm getting some other benefits for, you know, my military career for being 22 years in. So, you know, but, you know, in my civilian job, I retired out of that just a couple of years ago. So, you know, 39 years into a job, I guess, in one place, is that that says a lot, too, you know. So I guess that's where that is right now is.

HALASKA: Okay. And then. You said that you use some of your veteran benefits. What? What kind?

SCHWANZ: Well, I'm in Tricare, and I got the Tricare. My wife is a few years older than I. So she's got Tricare insurance with me. And so we're carrying that for our insurance. And. And I also, of course, are getting my pension through the military. I've got my wife and my got her under a life insurance policy through the military. So she's got that under her under her name. So in case something ever happened to me, she's got some benefits that she'll get. And then, of course, my my daughter's stepdaughters and my my my daughter will get some benefits, too, with that life insurance policy. So so, you know, whatever little money there is there, I mean, it's something that needs to be passed on to help them. So.

HALASKA: What were the when you retired, what were the education benefits and those kind of things like.

SCHWANZ: Very good. I mean, they had 100% tuition when I was in the National Guard and I never did well, I went to MIT. I actually paid for my own schooling then, but I never took advantage of their schooling or their tuition reimbursement. They called it and made it. And certainly Wisconsin and especially here in Madison, the trucks, the Air National Guard, Wisconsin Air National Guard, they had a 100%, you know, toward tuition reimbursement for anyone wanting to go back to school. But I just never really had the interest to go back and pursue anything. So I never did use that benefit. So but that was a nice that was a nice benefit for people to get a better education. I think the military always, always was that way. I mean, I think they still are this way, too, is that, you know, education, you know, they they really want kids to go back. And, you know, if you get an education to get, you know, well, education for themselves.

HALASKA: Are you involved with any veteran organization groups?

SCHWANZ: No, I'm not. Oh, okay. None whatsoever. No. I go here in Verona and my father well, my father still lives here, and he's the vet, too. So we go to the senior center. They had some monthly every month. They had the vets a meeting for the veterans, and he would go over there. But now with his health, he hasn't been able to attend that. But no, I really haven't joined. I haven't joined the VFW or I haven't joined the um, any of those type of organizations. It just I just really haven't had that interest yet to to get back into that.

HALASKA: Do you stay in contact with any of the guys that you know with.

SCHWANZ: I don't. I, we kind of lost contact with them, you know there actually right when I got out, we never really never really kept contact with any of them so. Mhm. I mean I don't even, I think they're still here in the Madison area but we, I've gone to Truax Base out here, it's just celebrated their 75th anniversary and they just went back out to do their anniversary and, but you know a lot of, a lot of the people that I went and out there just don't just don't come to them. And so kind of was a little bit of a stranger out there, you know, because I knew a couple of people but that was about it so. Mhm. But.

HALASKA: Um, to, uh. To kind of wrap things up. Yes. What? Um, to someone who's listening to this, to this interview, what would you want them to know? Or to take away from this interview?

SCHWANZ: Well, I just wanted to just just tell people that if you do go in the military. Be prepared. I mean, you know, it's it's tough. I mean, you know, getting through basic training can be tough. I know that when I was when I started basic training, you know, we had a big class of people and there was a few of them that just they caught them, got washed out, you know, within 2 or 3 days, you know, because they just couldn't accept what you had to do for responsibilities. And and I think, you know, the military is a great opportunity if you wanna help the country and be patriotic you know something that education wise. So I just that that's kind of how I feel about the military is that, you know, I wish that at least everyone would maybe go to go through the basic training part of military. Maybe you don't have to be in it for for years afterwards. But I think I think the training part of it would maybe teach people a little bit more responsibilities. And I think that's the whole problem nowadays is that people just don't take responsibility enough, you know, for themselves. Mhm. You know, and everyone is just kind of out for themselves and kind of the me me situation. But that's me know, that's my opinion. So, but. So that's about what I have to say.

HALASKA: Okay. Excellent. Do you have anything else that you'd like to add?

SCHWANZ: No, not really.

HALASKA: All right. Well, thank you very much.

SCHWANZ: You're very welcome. Thank you.

[Interview Ends]