[Interview Begins]

BLUMENBERG: Okay. We'll get started now. My name is Tom Bloomberg. It is September 6th, 2019, and it is my honor to be here today with Theodore Wayne Schwinger. But I know him as a friend and we call him Ted Schwager. So welcome, Ted. And, I must say that I am doing this interview as a private individual. I am not affiliated with any organization, but I am doing a veterans history project interview for the Library of Congress and the American Folklife Center. So welcome, Ted, and good morning. And we'll get started.

SCHWENKER: Good morning Tom.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. So, just start out with, some biographic detail, tell tell me where you were born.

SCHWENKER: Born in Burlington, Iowa, August 9th, 1935.

BLUMENBERG: 1935. So that makes you how old today?

SCHWENKER: One day older than I was yesterday. 84.

BLUMENBERG: Perfect. And as you said, one day at a time and one step at a time. Can you tell me a bit about your parents?

SCHWENKER: Father's first name was Norman, and my mother's first name was Florence. My mother was basically a factory worker and a restaurant worker. She lived the ripe old age of 90. Some her twin sister lived to the ripe old age of 100.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, wow.

SCHWENKER: And my dad was, a variety of things, but most of his life, he was a machinist. And, spent the last years of his working life as a machinist at the Rock Island Arsenal in, Rock Island, Illinois.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, okay. Now, you were, you said you were born in August 1935, and you were born in Burlington, Iowa.

SCHWENKER: Bernie. Denial.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: Part of the see the incue railroad.

BLUMENBERG: I didn't know that. Oh. All right, then, what about, brothers and sisters? Did you have siblings?

SCHWENKER: I had one brother, who died at the age of two before I was born.

BLUMENBERG: What did he die of?

SCHWENKER: Pneumonia. Oh, wow.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. So. And that was it for siblings. Your brothers. So you were then, the sole child for your. Your parents?

SCHWENKER: Yes.

BLUMENBERG: Then, just tell me a little bit about your early schooling in Burlington.

SCHWENKER: Well, okay. Started, grade school at Prospect Hill grade School, and, then went to Hausman Junior High School, where he was active in sports and band. I went on to Burlington High School. Same activities. Was also my junior and senior year, a, school photographer. And after high school, attended one semester of, Burlington Junior College. And after that first semester, it was obvious I wasn't going to be able to. Financially make it through college the rest of the way. So. And the G.I. Bill was about to expire. So I, was recruited by an Air Force recruiter and decided that I would go in the Air Force and hopefully be able to take advantage of the GI Bill.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, okay. So let me, just back you up a step. You said you were active in sports. What sports were you involved with?

SCHWENKER: Track. Football. Baseball.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, wow. So you were. You were involved in. Three different.

SCHWENKER: Sports venues. I kept busy.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Okay. Well, kept you out of trouble that way. And the Air Force recruiter. You were at, Burlington Junior College and the Air Force recruiter met you there, or did you go into into the town to find him or how to network?

SCHWENKER: Well, I lived in town, and the college was in town. Okay. There was a group of about 15 or 25, not from Burlington, but from the Burlington area that ended up all going at the same time.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: So there was a group of us that left.

BLUMENBERG: And you enlisted, right? Okay. Now, you graduated from high school in what year?

SCHWENKER: 1954.

BLUMENBERG: 1954. And then you went to college for one year, one semester a semester.

SCHWENKER: So your college.

BLUMENBERG: So you entered military service in 1955.

SCHWENKER: And January of 1955, which was right after the end of that first semester junior college.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. Well, then, this is going back, a half a step here. What what, what did your parents think about you enlisting at that point in time?

SCHWENKER: I really don't think they had an opinion one way or the other.

BLUMENBERG: Just something you did.

SCHWENKER: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Okay.

SCHWENKER: And they knew why I was doing that, and. They supported it.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Okay. So you get good support in your decision? No. So that was 1955.

SCHWENKER: And you ask about education. And I haven't said anything about continuing college. But that comes later.

BLUMENBERG: That comes later. Okay. Well, we can, why don't we? If you want to talk about it now, we can do that. Or we can catch it in the in more chronological order of when we get to that point. Okay. All right then. Here you are. You, enlisted in the Air Force. 1955. And where were you inducted into the service?

SCHWENKER: Well, I don't remember how we got from Burlington to Des Moines, Iowa, but Des Moines, Iowa is where the induction process took place. And from Des Moines, Iowa, went to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas. And that was a train ride of a couple of days.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. So you ended up in.

SCHWENKER: Lackland for basic training.

BLUMENBERG: Here and Lackland for basics and. When when you got to Lackland, you got basic training. And then can you just expound on that? What was your basic training like?

SCHWENKER: A lot of marching, a lot of picking up other people's cigaret butts.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. That's like the duty parade performance.

SCHWENKER: Super cleaning the lavatories.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Stretching the blankets to where they would bounce of water on your bed.

BLUMENBERG: Pretty high standard. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And so that was your basics. You were doing your regular physical education at the same time in addition to that? Yeah. And your basic training lasted how long?

SCHWENKER: About three months.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. Are there any high points of your basic that you want to talk about? Yeah. Or low points? You don't want high points.

SCHWENKER: Getting out of.

BLUMENBERG: There. Getting off. Okay. Well that's a good high point. So there must have been a low point if you wanted to get out of there. Just it was just time or.

SCHWENKER: Was it just, I suppose the constant pressure of being under the thumb of the drill instructor.

BLUMENBERG: Right. Okay.

SCHWENKER: Who was a monstrous size individual?

BLUMENBERG: Oh, okay. Well, that was one of my questions. Is that does any particular instructor stand out? And apparently that one did.

SCHWENKER: Yeah. He was a big boy.

BLUMENBERG: He was a big boy. And Lucy, was even fair to you or.

SCHWENKER: Overall, he was it turned out to be an amiable individual.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Okay. It wasn't his job to portray himself that way.

BLUMENBERG: Right. Yeah. Okay. And you finished basically after three months. And then where did you end up from there?

SCHWENKER: I was elected to go to, Chanute Air Force Base in Rantoul, 1109 for weather observer training.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. So you're in Illinois? I'm not familiar with Chanute. Where is that on?

SCHWENKER: Rantoul, Illinois is, probably about the middle of the state on the east side.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. Like. All right. And you will be being trained as a weather observer. Right. And what did that entail?

SCHWENKER: Well, we had to. Learn how to, of course, observe the weather is what was occurring at the time and how to record it. We had to learn all the different cloud types, all the different precipitation types, how to, detect, visibility distance wise. Okay. All of that had to be recorded in on their paperwork using their coding systems.

BLUMENBERG: Of course. Yes.

SCHWENKER: And that all had to be, transmitted. We had to put that on what today you would refer to probably as a computer. But back then, it was before the time of computers that we worked with, Awacs, which was the, communication link, the Air Force and then CDS would transmitted across the airwaves to all across the country.

BLUMENBERG: So can I stop you for a second? Awacs is that airwave communication system?

SCHWENKER: That could be. Yes.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. I know the the use of Ackerman acronyms is. Yeah. Prevalent. So that that sounds like it. When I heard you say it, it sounded like it matched up. Okay, then, anything else about that? You communicated it through that system.

SCHWENKER: Right? Then that did get sent out. We also received back weather reports from all over the United States, and we then had to plot that on the weather maps.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: And those plotted weather maps and what the forecasters used to forecast. Okay. oh. Warm weather?

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Overseas, of course, we were dealing with a different situation. We weren't dealing with the United States anymore either. It was the Far East.

BLUMENBERG: And you were right. And you were doing the same work. Same work. Okay. Now, when you were, when you were doing that, your observations were with your eyes or using any specialized equipment, eyes.

SCHWENKER: Eyes, had to use the barometer and the tachometer they needed to spin to determine the dew point.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. So you used.

SCHWENKER: Them that and you know, that was about the extent of the physical technology.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. And then there's. People all over basically the world doing the same thing, right? And then you gather the information and get that. Okay. So that's how you get the big picture. Yeah. All right. I don't know if following along here. Is there was there any part of that training that you thought was the most difficult or the hardest thing to grasp?

SCHWENKER: Probably the ability to, estimate cloud heights at low clouds, middle clouds and high clouds and. He had to know the cloud types and all of those elevations, but to pick out the elevation from eyesight was rather difficult. And, we would quite frequently ask for, pilot information. And the pilots were good at calling back in Cloud Heights. So and of course, the forecasters, they always appreciated the more accurate information as opposed to the estimated answer.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, how are they doing that now? They they're using radars or other.

SCHWENKER: Radar came in. Toward the end of my second year when I was overseas, the weather station, there was one of the first to get a radar unit. And, it was mostly used by the, the forecasters, but we got to play around a little bit every once in a while.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. And at that point, you were in Europe.

SCHWENKER: Far East.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, the Far East. Okay, well, we'll get to that. Now, could you tell me a little bit about your. Oh, I don't know, getting used to military life or military lifestyle. How did you deal with that?

SCHWENKER: I really didn't have a problem with that. I was pretty well disciplined by the time I got to that point. And, I did not have a difficult time making that transition.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. Then you, did your basics in Lackland, then you went to. Your next duty station in Illinois? Rantoul. And how long did you stay there?

SCHWENKER: I would have been there from what I see every March, April from the end of April till the. Probably the early part of December. Okay, so you were there. Then I was on leave before being shipped out.

BLUMENBERG: Right. So you went on leave and went back to Iowa?

SCHWENKER: Yes. From Chanute, I went. Went back to Burlington, and left Burlington and went out to, San Francisco and California.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: And I remember now that I was in the Air Force and I got put on a troopship.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, well, that doesn't seem right.

SCHWENKER: Doesn't get sent overseas. I could never figure that one out.

BLUMENBERG: I bet a lot of people couldn't get any.

SCHWENKER: That was the longest 18 days of my life on that kid.

BLUMENBERG: Well, when you went from Burlington to San Francisco, were you on a train or how did you get. How did you travel there?

SCHWENKER: I don't remember that. Okay.

BLUMENBERG: Well, you started then. You ended up in San Francisco, and 18 days later, where did you end up?

SCHWENKER: Well, let's talk about San Francisco. Okay. I'm in.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, so you.

SCHWENKER: Had Cisco just long enough to get, it assigned to a ship. And, the day we sailed out of San Francisco, it was a cloudy, gloomy day and very foggy. And, I was up on deck, and they told us we couldn't see anything because of the fog, but they told us we were, approaching, going under the Golden Gate Bridge. Couldn't see the bridge, but I took a picture where it was supposed to be, and lo and behold, the bridge showed up on the picture.

BLUMENBERG: Really? Yeah. Even though you couldn't see it with your naked eye, I.

SCHWENKER: Must have had the right filter on the camera.

BLUMENBERG: Isn't that something? Well, that was a surprise.

SCHWENKER: Okay, so 18 days later, ended up in Yokohama, Japan.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: When I left San Francisco, my orders read for Korea. By the time we got to Yokohama and my orders had been changed to go to Eagle Jima.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, wow. So you were. They were playing chess or what was happening?

SCHWENKER: I don't know. But anyhow, being close to the end of the Korean War, I thought that was a good change.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Rather than going to a war in Korea.

BLUMENBERG: So you went to Yokohama and did you spend any time there?

SCHWENKER: We were there a few days, and I remember we were there over Christmas, and we were in a barracks, and somebody had found a small what we made to resemble about a six or an eight inch tall Christmas tree. So that was our Christmas of 1955. Oh.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. Six inch.

SCHWENKER: And then shortly after Christmas, we got to fly.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, perfect.

SCHWENKER: Down to you, Jim.

BLUMENBERG: So you ended up in Eagle, right? Right after Christmas.

SCHWENKER: Right.

BLUMENBERG: And then where were you stationed? There. But your base you were.

SCHWENKER: Jim, is a small island. Pork chop shaped.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: And, it consisted of the air base. And way over on the other side of the island, there was a small. Coast guard base. But we never had much contact. Or never. And so much of them, they pretty much stay over in their own area, you know?

BLUMENBERG: Well, I had been many years since, World War Two battles on Isla Jima. But did you see any any evidence of that?

SCHWENKER: I found my. Time on a road to be very educational. From that war standpoint. We did a lot of what you would call boondocking, or if you talked nice to the commander, he would let you use his Jeep to go out and wander around the island.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, so you get to.

SCHWENKER: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: And. Amazing. The the war relics that were still left there. Eagle is infested with caves all over the place, and most of them had been supposedly sealed off as burial places for the Japanese. And, but some of them were starting to, to open up, and, we can't talk about that.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. That's fine. So they sealed them with, Earth is that is closed. Close enough. Yeah. Okay.

SCHWENKER: Evil is the home of Mount Suribachi.

BLUMENBERG: Right.

SCHWENKER: And the war memorial on the top of Mount Sabaki. You get up on 17, and you look down the cliff, down to the ocean, and it looks like it's straight down.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: But you could not stand on top of that war memorial and throw a rock out to hit the ocean. So that was obviously so right?

BLUMENBERG: Right.

SCHWENKER: But he, to.

BLUMENBERG: Your perspective was that it was straight down.

SCHWENKER: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Probably one of the emotional things on Mount Sabaki was Easter sunrise service. That was a very emotional service. And most everybody on the base managed to go up there. And, the base did have a chaplain. So things worked out well that way.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Of course. The famous picture on Monster bocce was taken when they raised the flag after it. Yeah. And that. Well, that's still, that's a picture that shows up occasionally.

SCHWENKER: No, there's a replica of that statue in, Washington, D.C., and that sits in the middle of a circle tour. And you always visualize that flag raising amounts here, but you with the flag being up in the name. Okay. In Washington, D.C., as you go around that circle, you get to the point where you're in line with that pole and it appears to be going straight up.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, I you know, I lived there for a while, but I never I guess I never noticed that.

SCHWENKER: Never noticed.

BLUMENBERG: That. Well, okay.

SCHWENKER: Well, if you get back.

BLUMENBERG: You don't have to do that.

SCHWENKER: You know why we're talking about that in Washington, DC. The World War two memorial. They pride themselves there with those war memorials. No graffiti. With one exception. And that is a through World War Two memorial. And there's an architect provided piece of graffiti around on the back. If you go around right on the back side, there is an architectural provided graffiti, coming from World War two. What might you think that graffiti would be?

BLUMENBERG: All right. You know, I can't imagine.

SCHWENKER: And I'm drawing a blank. Kilroy was here.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, Kilroy. Well, that was pretty popular back in. Yeah. Kilroy was everywhere, right?

SCHWENKER: Yep. That's the only graffiti on any of those.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. I could probably draw a picture of Kilroy if I had to. So. Yeah, I should have known that. Okay, then. Anything else about that, Ted?

SCHWENKER: Well, we talked about exploring the island. We talked about Easter. As a weather observer. I was fresh out of weather observing school at that point, but after a couple of months or so, my observations must have been accurate and clear enough that I was elevated to a job of what they call records checker. And that ended up being a daytime job where I would go over and review and make any corrections to the observations from the previous day by other weather observers.

BLUMENBERG: So you were like the safety check on. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

SCHWENKER: And, so I did that for the rest of my time in service. And you also got to go, with our detachment, weather detachment commander, on inspection trips around the islands in the far east of the various weather stations. And some of those were, we get stops on Okinawa, the Philippines, and midway. And that would have been a couple of others in there, I don't remember.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Okay, so you made the made the rounds of the.

SCHWENKER: Rounds in a goony bird DC three.

BLUMENBERG: So they let you fly again?

SCHWENKER: Yeah. And our detachment commander was the pilot. Oh, so that they had assigned him a plane? Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Looked after it to.

SCHWENKER: Make these, make these trips. Also, you know, I was privileged to be able to establish a photo finishing lab, and talked to other guys on the base how to, develop and print their own black and white pictures.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: And, they hadn't had that there before, and it was an active place.

BLUMENBERG: So that would be your off duty time. Recreation. Okay. Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Yeah. They gave me a little room about this size.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: And that's all I needed.

BLUMENBERG: And you had a dark room and.

SCHWENKER: Yeah. And they. They ordered what I requested for supplies and said, we gotta go.

BLUMENBERG: You.

SCHWENKER: Know, became very popular.

BLUMENBERG: Know. Okay. Now, one of the things. On our list of questions, here is how did you or did you, keep in touch with your family while you were over overseas by mail? Well, everything went by snail mail. Yeah.

SCHWENKER: You know, that was the only form of communication, right?

BLUMENBERG: And now they get cell phone service. Yeah, I think.

SCHWENKER: I assume that cell phone stuff goes worldwide.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Or satellite phones. I don't know what they use, but. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Any other particular incidents or events that you want to recall?

SCHWENKER: Oh. One time. He would go ahead a very short runway because of the length of the island. And. Most of the planes that came in and out of there, that brought in supplies and took things out of people who who C-130, big cargo planes. And, and I was on one of those headed up to, Japan for a couple days of, an hour. And on that plane and they, they had a couple of large heavy generators, and we didn't know anything about it until we got back on New Jima. But they watched that plane take off that day, and it went down the runway and a cliff at the end of the runway. The planes gone out of sight before it backed up. We weren't aware of that until we got back. Probably a good.

BLUMENBERG: Thing. Oh, wow. Yeah. What a sight to see.

SCHWENKER: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. We thought they'd end up in the ocean. Yep. Okay. Well, I don't know if that's humorous, but it's. You're unusual to observe something like that. And then, one of the other things did you have, like, a good luck charm or anything to keep, you know.

SCHWENKER: Just a strong faith.

BLUMENBERG: You're strong faith. Yeah, I know that you have that. So. And that that helped you get to the end point in it will.

SCHWENKER: Or is it talks about.

BLUMENBERG: Another thing. Okay.

SCHWENKER: As a weather observer. And in the Far East they have typhoons, which are similar to our hurricanes here.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. All right.

SCHWENKER: Well, when the typhoons come through, everybody on the base went down into the caves except the weather. The Dutchmen and WAC hits. Okay, we had to stay up on top and weather out the storm.

BLUMENBERG: Good for you. You got to see it. You got to see it firsthand. And then who is the double ax? You said the weather observers. And who else had to stay up to.

SCHWENKER: Speed on the communications?

BLUMENBERG: Oh, the communications people. So you were the only ones up topside and everybody else was in a cave? Yep. Yeah. And, well, obviously, you experienced a typhoon. Yeah. And how did that work out?

SCHWENKER: Well, obviously, it was windy and and we had one typhoon that came through there. Well, it was kind of similar to what just happened here down in Florida, where the thing got stalled. We were in the middle of the eye, which, of course was very calm and nothing going on but all kinds of activity all around us. Oh, that was kind of a different phenomena.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Well, that's pretty exciting for a weather observer to be in the eye of the storm.

SCHWENKER: Well, you were there.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Well. That's interesting. Well, I know you have good notes. Is there anything else about you that you want to talk about?

SCHWENKER: I guess we're in. Oh. All of the units had a mascot, a dog. Okay. And they were, you know, you got attached to them because this would isolated tour of duty over there. Well, they had it. They developed an infiltration of rats. And they decided they were going to poison the rats. So they poisoned the rats. The dogs eat the rats and the dogs died.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: And that was not well-received by the troops.

BLUMENBERG: I can believe that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SCHWENKER: So they started over. But I knew puppies.

BLUMENBERG: All right. So who is your mascot? You remember one?

SCHWENKER: Yeah. Dog's name? Rose Ray. When part of our weather unit. Was. A group of probably 4 or 5 guys that went out on the island every night and sent up weather balloons, and those are called ravens. And, and so the dog was named Ray.

BLUMENBERG: Ray Ray.

SCHWENKER: Yeah. But that the weather balloon thing was a different part of the weather reporting elements. They were reporting neat upper loft winds.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So there was ray wind, and, let's see, was there anything else? And on the island before you finished up there?

SCHWENKER: No. Like I said. Left there with. Orders to go to Brookley Air Force Base in Mobile, Alabama. But that's when I went through Burlington. And did the male caring?

BLUMENBERG: Okay, so just. You told me a little bit about that before, but you were supposed to go to Alabama.

SCHWENKER: Yeah, that was my next duty station.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: And then that was Brookley Air Force Base.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. And then after. After Brookley or during Brookley. Then you were tapped for this other duty as a mail carrier? No, no.

SCHWENKER: That was that was in-between time while I was on leave between coming back from overseas and reporting out, San Francisco.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. So I had a month there. Yeah, a month.

SCHWENKER: The month of December.

BLUMENBERG: All right.

SCHWENKER: It would have been in 56.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. And then you ended up in Brookley. Right. And how long did you spend there?

SCHWENKER: I was there my last two years. Okay. And again, started out as a weather observer and within a short period of time was back into records checking.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: So the majority of my time at Brookley was, working as a weather observer.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: And then the checker after that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry. The majority of my time, boys. As a refuge.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Okay.

SCHWENKER: And then, and, we didn't talk about promotions. Oh, no. When I got out of, basic training, I was promoted for Airman basic to Airman second class. And after I got out of weather school, I was promoted, airman second class. Scuse me, airman third class to airman second class. And then, toward the end of my two years in Brooklyn, was promoted to Airman First class. Okay, so that was my discharge.

BLUMENBERG: So you were airman first class at discharge. At discharge?

SCHWENKER: Well, in mobile, the first time I drove up to a filling station in mobile to ask for directions on how to get out to the air base. And after that the guy told me three times I didn't know any more. And I did when I started. Because of the accents.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, yeah.

SCHWENKER: Okay. But I eventually found my way out in Brooklyn. Sometimes in events while at Berkeley. I attended church in mobile. That had a, young adult group, so that worked out good. I tagged on as an assistant scoutmaster and got to go on weekend camp out.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: I had had, prior to that. Of the 15 years of scouting affiliation.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, so you got back into it as a.

SCHWENKER: You know, as a scout and then. Yes, started as an assistant scout master there. Then, guys from the weather station who had occasionally go on fishing trips on the causeway, the river bridge that goes out into the mobile Bay, and we would fish from the shore along causeway. And, you had to be careful wading in the water because of stingrays and, you know, I out they're flat things that you don't see but they've got stingers on them.

BLUMENBERG: All right.

SCHWENKER: We have one goofy guy from Biloxi, Mississippi. We called him Kirksey, and he took his fishing rod, put a dead shrimp on it, and casted out up on the causeway. Well, the call came in and picked it up and flew off attached to his name. He's standing there reeling in the gone fishing.

BLUMENBERG: It's like a kite.

SCHWENKER: You notice I call that bird the Gulf. Most people would call that a seagull. There is no such thing as a seagull.

BLUMENBERG: It's just eagle.

SCHWENKER: Yeah, yeah. It's just. Called a goal. Yeah, not a goal, but goal.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Okay. And if you go home and look in your bird book, you won't find a seagull.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, I'm going to do that when I get home. And then I'll tell you about it. And I know you're right because you've already checked it out. But I'm learning things today, so that's good.

SCHWENKER: Okay. Talk a little bit about the mission base for Brooklyn. They were basically mothballing fighter planes. Preparing them to be put on an aircraft carrier, which was done right there at Brookley Air Force Base in Mobile Bay. And then, the carriers would, carry the planes over to foreign countries. Kind of amazing that they were sending, used out, ironclad fighter planes over there, but they were all refurbished and ready to go before they.

BLUMENBERG: So then they were used in other, other areas of the world?

SCHWENKER: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: That was the mothballing process. Once in the two years, the, couple of us, 2 or 4 of us, it stacked over to New Orleans for Mardi Gras. Mardi Gras, something else. If you haven't been there, you should go.

BLUMENBERG: You enjoyed it?

SCHWENKER: In one way or another. Yeah. My last. Few months, you had, an all while I got married, and that was on April 19th of 1958. Got married to Charlotte J. Klein Clay, and she was a registered nurse and and and later also became wound care certified C. I told you about me having a problem with the guy at the filling station?

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: They would not allow Charlotte to take doctor's orders over the telephone because she couldn't understand them because of the accent.

BLUMENBERG: The accent? Yeah. The different.

SCHWENKER: And she. She worked at the, at the mobile infirmary for the time that she was down there.

BLUMENBERG: Well, how did you meet.

SCHWENKER: Charlotte, who we called Sharky?

BLUMENBERG: I know that I heard that term, okay.

SCHWENKER: I knew her through junior high. I met her in junior high and high school, and. We were on many double dates together, but never dated each other. Kind of an interesting. Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: That's him. Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Well, after high school, she went to the morning to study nursing, and after my first year in junior college was when I entered the Air Force over, she went to nursing. I went to Air Force Row.

BLUMENBERG: We went different directions.

SCHWENKER: Went different directions. Then one day down the line. I got a letter. Remember now? She was in nursing and I was in the Air Force. I got a letter from Florence Nightingale addressed to Wilbur Wright.

BLUMENBERG: How did that happen?

SCHWENKER: Or how? From the nursing profession to the Air Force situation? Yeah, okay. And that was the start of a, courtship by mail.

BLUMENBERG: Wow.

SCHWENKER: But you knew everything there was to know about each other from the.

BLUMENBERG: Wow, six.

SCHWENKER: Years that we had known each other. Sure. Okay. So there wasn't much actual dating time, you know, or premarital time.

BLUMENBERG: But you did that all beforehand, so.

SCHWENKER: It was all taken care of.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Now, did you ever get a chance to visit her while you were on leave or any. No. No.

SCHWENKER: Well, yes. There were a couple of times from mobile that I got to go back up to Burlington.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: For a week or two. Yeah. And, her dad would let me use their car to go, and visit her. And, this was. This was during a period of time that she was already a graduate, R.N., and working in the Cedar Rapids area.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. You know. All right.

SCHWENKER: She worked a period of time in the hospital there. And then the last year or so in Cedar Rapids. She was in Cedar Rapids for two years. The last year or so, she worked in a doctor's office there. But, yes, we did and did get a couple trips up.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. So then then you got married in mobile, Alabama, you.

SCHWENKER: Know, got married in Burlington.

BLUMENBERG: In Burlington?

SCHWENKER: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: And then moved her.

SCHWENKER: Down to Turkey. Oh, you turned down to to mobile?

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. And were you living on base?

SCHWENKER: I was living on base up until that time. And then I got permission to live off base. Okay. So we had an apartment off base.

BLUMENBERG: All right. Well, then you're married. You're still in the Air Force?

SCHWENKER: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: And how much longer were you in, Brooklyn.

SCHWENKER: Well, that would have been from April until the early part of that December of 58, when I got discharged in the in the Denver.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, okay. And then you're out. You're a civilian.

SCHWENKER: I'm no civilian.

BLUMENBERG: And what? And now that's what the rest of the story starts. So what happened to you then?

SCHWENKER: Okay, I. During the. Latter parts of being in mobile, I decided I wanted to. Go to a college of forestry. And this was suggested to me by one of my friends in the weather detachment because of my interest in nature and he outdoors and that sort of thing. He says you should consider a career in forestry. Well, that struck and at home. So I pursued, forestry schools, College of Forestry at the Iowa State University in. Ames, Iowa, and I considered the, University of Minnesota Saint Paul campus College of Forestry, and I figured that Saint Paul was a larger place, more opportunity for employment, both for Sharkie and for me. So elected to apply for the College of Forestry at the University of Minnesota. Yeah, that's where I ended up.

BLUMENBERG: All right.

SCHWENKER: I started out in forest management, which is what you usually think of College of Forestry. I got to thinking about that. That may not be the best route to go to, raise a family. So I transferred from forest management to Forest Products. And the forest products curriculum had a long name. It was called the College of Forestry and Building Materials, merchandizing and Light construction. And that was my forestry curriculum. And then along with that, I had a strong minor in business. Okay. And that's how I graduated. I graduated from there. I went to, two summer sessions because I was interested in being married. I was interested in getting out of there and getting on with things. So I graduated in a three year period of time, but I had one semester before going in there.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. And were you able to use the GI Bill for your.

SCHWENKER: I was able to use the GI Bill through the whole thing. And by the end credits to the summer session that kept my an income coming in, you know, during the summer also.

BLUMENBERG: So your plan before you went in was came into fruition?

SCHWENKER: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Perfect.

SCHWENKER: And I wouldn't have made it otherwise.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. No, that's that's a good plan. All right. Then you graduated from the University of Minnesota in Saint Paul.

SCHWENKER: Right?

BLUMENBERG: And that was in 1962. 1962. Okay. And then what happened to you?

SCHWENKER: My life changed. I am coming out of college. I had what I consider to be an ideal lifetime career job. It was with real cold engineering, which was the division of warehouse U.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: Which is a large organization and real core engineering dealt with laminated beams and arches like you see in commercial buildings and in churches like in Art church. Right. And the wood decking that goes with it. That's what that was all about.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: And, I was really excited about that. And their office, Central State Office, was in Saint Paul, and it was only about six blocks or so from where our apartment was. And so I quite frequently would walk to and from work. And I had the car to go where she had to go. At six. Weeks. Six weeks, six months, six months. Rather into that job. Real engineering. Close down their central offices.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, no. Done.

SCHWENKER: Done.

BLUMENBERG: Right. Get. Sorry.

SCHWENKER: So here I am. Yeah. Out of a job. The day that I was informed of that was the day the movers had moved us from our apartment to a house that we had purchased.

BLUMENBERG: Oh. What timing.

SCHWENKER: Yeah. So I walked home from work that day with no job, nothing in the apartment, sitting on the curb, waiting for Sharkey to come pick me up. Yeah. Talk about a low point in your life, right?

BLUMENBERG: Right. After you.

SCHWENKER: Yeah, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Thank you. Got it made. And then that.

SCHWENKER: Happened. So I had to scramble. And, I don't know if you want to go to the rest of my working career.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, you can summarize that and then.

SCHWENKER: Okay. So I had to scramble and find something to do.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Well, I knew some of the guys from the forestry school, and, a couple of them were working at Sasol garages. I don't know if you know anything from the Twin Cities. Well, so. So garages was a well known, residential construction company, family owned. So I stopped in there, and, yes, they were looking for her. They call us Expeditors Construction Expeditors. So I was fortunate enough to get the job real quick.

BLUMENBERG: You know.

SCHWENKER: And worked as a construction. expediter. I worked for that company for 13 years. I got promoted up to general construction manager, where I was in charge of subcontractors covering a whole range of expertise. I had expediter under my control, but our group O total had about 100 subcontractors that we were responsible.

BLUMENBERG: For being a big.

SCHWENKER: Outfit, negotiating, negotiating costs and controlling costs. That was the biggest part of everything. And keeping the jobs moving on schedule and scheduling them. Then we came to an area called a housing downturn.

BLUMENBERG: You know.

SCHWENKER: And things kind of dried up. And so I so decided they didn't need a construction manager anymore.

BLUMENBERG: So they were.

SCHWENKER: Out of their job. Out of a job. And, here again. We had built a new home. I was the general contractor, building our new home out in Roseville, Minnesota. And hadn't been out there very long. We moved there from Saint Paul to Roseville. When this all came about, and. I didn't know quite what to do. So I was back out in the playing field again.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Well, I interviewed around a lot of different places, and it kind of boiled down to. I'd always been interested in some homes. oh, I saw Wisconsin. And, I had been acquainted with New York Life Insurance Company from Little Land because my dad had New York life and New York life. Agent was always a nice guy. But again, they just up to his cabin on the Mississippi River and everything. And so strange as it may seem, I gave New York life some consideration along with, well, some.

BLUMENBERG: Homes and.

SCHWENKER: And, the guy had lots of homes through both Sharkey and I from Saint Paul over to was to interview his wife, interviewed Sharkey, and of course he interviewed me and I had all the tools coming from some sort of with the construction management of all of the subcontractors. And he wanted me in the worst way. But son told me, you know. So I ended up accepting a position with New York Life.

BLUMENBERG: Oh that's a switch.

SCHWENKER: That's a big switch.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Okay. So I started turning process all over again. I ended up and still am, a licensed agent with New York Life out of the Minnesota General Office and was active for 40 years. And now it's 40 plus years, with New York. Right? Big change. Right? Well, back in 2001, I think it was. I took what New York Life refers to as a retired active status, which means I could to new to work if I wanted to, or if I chose not to. I chose not to. Well, after 4 or 5 years of monkeying around with this, choosing to not do, I decided. To cut that active or cut the active status. And that's when I became what's called retired active. And the reason I stayed retired active was because it had an effect on my compensation. If I did, plum retired, which I had done. I had gone through the retirement process and somebody from the Home Office in New York. So you don't want to do that. Well what do I want to do. And he told me about the intention of my income.

BLUMENBERG: Nice thing that they gave you that hint.

SCHWENKER: Yep, yep. So that's what I did. Well, then I ventured into a couple of part time things. I drove for NWT express. Okay. Out of Hayward.

BLUMENBERG: And you go from here to the Minneapolis airport.

SCHWENKER: Back and forth. Okay. I did that for 12 years.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, wow. I didn't know that.

SCHWENKER: Yeah. And, there was some management problems there where he. We were employees of NWT, and he decided that we were going to become, independent contractors. Well, the situation didn't fit the independent contractor status. And I told him, you know, I didn't want anything to do with that. So that and that. Well then I saw been in and out of and every once in a while out of Out of Ashland and it was an non emergency medical transport. And so I called them up and said I see your van once in a while in Hayward. I said is there any driving opportunity there for that. Well yeah. Funny you should call. We're thinking about locating the van in Hayward. So they did that and I got the van assigned to me. And that was another extended period of time of doing the non-medical transport. And that involved driving people from around the Hayward area and all parts north up through Ashland and over to a superior and no see, up to, Duluth. Big territory.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, yeah.

SCHWENKER: And picking up people, taking them to their appointments and taking them back home and met some nice people and met some people that unbelievable how you would expect them to live the way they were living. But then I got a call in route unwanted there trips. Got some news for you, but you're not going to like it. We're going to pull the van out of Hayward.

BLUMENBERG: So. So you were out of the US? Happened a few times.

SCHWENKER: So I stopped in at. The auto parts place.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: But no, the other one.

BLUMENBERG: I can't think or rightly.

SCHWENKER: Oh, right.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Okay. Stopped in. Already talked to the young lady at the counter. Nice. Did they ever hire drivers here? She says yeah. Your timing is good. They're looking for one right now. So I applied interviewing and got the job. And I was on a part time basis. I had some medical problems that had come along, and they were aware of the medical problems, and I had doctor's permission to do this on a part time basis type of thing. And that went along well for I don't know. Probably three years. And then, again, a management problem. He changed the schedule. Our driving schedule. Didn't talk to anybody about it. The only way we found out about it was coming to work one day and find the schedule changed. Well, I talked to him about that and told him.

BLUMENBERG: That.

SCHWENKER: I couldn't do that. And he says, well, we gotta have you here when we got to have you here. And I said, well, I'm not doing a good enough job, I says, goodbye.

BLUMENBERG: You know that.

SCHWENKER: So that was the end of my acting employment status.

BLUMENBERG: So are you retired now? Would you consider that for a volunteer status? Yeah. Well, no, that's a full time job, I understand that. Okay, I got that. Well, so you've had quite a quite an interesting change of career options or changes, whatever you might call it.

SCHWENKER: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SCHWENKER: And all of them were, were an interesting part of things.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Well. Did we. I want to get your opinion on some back to the military thing about. Any things that you may have learned that you applied to your job, your careers, military training that might have helped you or.

SCHWENKER: Well, point of interest that I. Yes. I didn't mention before. Probably 4 or 5 months ago, the National Weather Service out of Duluth had a. A weather observers orientation course.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, here.

SCHWENKER: At the library.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: And. I attended that and am now part of their official severe weather stuff warning itself.

BLUMENBERG: So let me get this straight. Are you a weather observer now.

SCHWENKER: After all these years and I'm unfortunately where I am located, residential wise is not a good weather observation point. I mean, I don't have much open sky. So how much help I'll be able to be to them, but, I'm on their list. I have their official card, and I'm a severe weather observer.

BLUMENBERG: You probably got talk to class.

SCHWENKER: Yeah, I know. That was an interesting review.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, I'll bet after many years. Well, let's see, is there anything about else about your military experience that affected, obviously it affected your life in a lot of ways, but about life lessons learned from military to get you through to this point. Military.

SCHWENKER: For years and military were pretty much what I expected them to be. When I went on. I had no idea what I was going to be doing while I was in. There goes four years when I signed up, because that didn't come until after basic training. But I was I was well pleased to, get into the weather element as opposed to, some kind of mechanic. The Air Force is going to jillion different kinds of mechanics.

BLUMENBERG: And.

SCHWENKER: I was pleased with however they went about selecting me for weather. I was pleased, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, good for you. Oh, yeah. And then you didn't make it to Korea, which is probably a good thing for you. But, you were still involved at the tail end of that war. So can you tell us about. Any feelings that you might have toward war itself? The general state of things.

SCHWENKER: But of course, my family and friends in Burlington weren't happy with the idea that I was getting sent, to Korea. But that wasn't a choice at that time. That. But it's an order. And. I was just surprised. And like I said before, it pleased when my orders were changed instead of going to Korea to go to evil. Yeah. I put a whole different perspective on going there. I didn't, I didn't mean on evil, the Far East itself. I didn't like, I don't like the lifestyle of the there. But, I didn't have to deal with that for very much of my time, right?

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Okay. Then you get this chance because you've had all this experience in lifetime. Well, living a lifetime, you can. You have your opportunity to say. Would you like to leave a message for future generations about life in general? Life in the military?

SCHWENKER: I think everybody. Owes it to their country to give a consideration of some kind of national commitment, whether it be military. Or other. I am not much of a political advocate. But, yeah, there's all kinds of ways that you can serve other than the military. But the military, if you're in need of having to develop discipline, that'll certainly teach you some discipline. And it gives you a purpose in life.

BLUMENBERG: You know, and it worked out for you to be in the military at the time that you went in. And, you.

SCHWENKER: Know.

BLUMENBERG: The fact that you could use your I in GI Bill. Yeah.

SCHWENKER: But I had not done that. And had I not gotten the GI Bill, I don't know what my life would have been. Right. Okay. It would have been, probably. One semester college. Person wandering around out, you know well any of humanity.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Well, then I gave you some opportunities you wouldn't have otherwise sent you. Well, okay. I'm basically done. Unless I know you have better notes than I do, so I'm at the end of mine. Is there anything else you want to? Well, I.

SCHWENKER: Think someone in your notes there says. Do I belong to any.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, yeah. Any other, veterans? Veterans organizations are a member.

SCHWENKER: And have been for a long time a member of American Legion.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: And you want to know if I attended any reunions? I don't know if they were talking about military traveling.

BLUMENBERG: Probably military. Yeah.

SCHWENKER: Okay. No military reunions. But I did attend high school reunions.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SCHWENKER: And that got down to a diminished supply of bodies, right? There are no more high school reunions.

BLUMENBERG: They're all. Or list. Yeah, yeah. I don't really have anything else here. In, in general, I guess the one of the things that they want me to ask is. Do you wish more people knew about veterans, or what do you want other people to know about veterans?

SCHWENKER: Well, I commend you for doing what you're doing and making the life of some of the veterans available to the public.

BLUMENBERG: You know.

SCHWENKER: And. With the way things are, are going. I think more more people, more young people need to get involved in things like the military. Of all this business that's going on in the world today. I don't think many of those people had military backgrounds. I may be wrong with that, but, again, it's a discipline element.

BLUMENBERG: You know.

SCHWENKER: And the awareness, the commitment to to be of service.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, and you certainly had that. Yeah. Then if there's nothing else. We've got two hour and 16 minutes of interview time, which I didn't know if I should expect that or not, but I. I appreciate you coming with good notes. Made my life so easy that we could just carry on. That's what we like.

SCHWENKER: Well, so I tell you what. I did that.

BLUMENBERG: If you can tell me. Yeah, sure.

SCHWENKER: I took those notes last night from 1030 to midnight.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, I didn't mean for you spend the night doing that.

SCHWENKER: I kept procrastinating.

BLUMENBERG: Yes. Well, we do that sometimes. Oh, okay. If there's nothing else, then I will close this interview. And I will close it by saying it is September 6th, 2019. And I am here with Theodore Wayne Shoemaker, also known as Ted Shoemaker. And we are in Hayward, Wisconsin. And Ted, I want to thank you for spending time with me, and I appreciate what you've done. And, thank you for your service.

SCHWENKER: I appreciate your time and endurance in getting this put together.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. Thank you.

[Interview Ends]